Zellner Tweets

[missy1974]

I have also read that one of the judges from today's order was involved in one of SA's appeals from 2013. I haven't had a chance to look it up myself, might get a chance later tonight. JMO

 

[IDK]

I have also read that one of the judges from today's order was involved in one of SA's appeals from 2013. I haven't had a chance to look it up myself, might get a chance later tonight. JMO

Hmmm..... sounds like a judge with a grudge....never a good thing when JUSTICE is what matters.

 

[missy1974]

looks like I missed one from last night, and then she tweeted about 20 minutes ago.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Let's say "what IF"
What IF the test results come back inconclusive, or, dare I say, with the same results as LE got? What then? Will Zellner accept that she got hoodwinked by Avery and drop it? Will she NOT accept the results and claim that THOSE results were planted or manipulated in some way? Not processed correctly? No proper chain of command? Will she then say the samples are way too old to "really" be proof? OR, will this continue on and on with people believing there is still a conspiracy against Avery?
I'm going back to the beginning. Started re-reading the "original" Avery trial thread quite a while ago, can't find it now. It was pretty good reading. Can anyone point me in it's direction? Thanks!

ETA: Found it!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Teresa-Marie-Halbach-25-Manitowoc-31-Oct-2005

 

[Karinna]

Let's say "what IF"
What IF the test results come back inconclusive, or, dare I say, with the same results as LE got? What then? Will Zellner accept that she got hoodwinked by Avery and drop it? Will she NOT accept the results and claim that THOSE results were planted or manipulated in some way? Not processed correctly? No proper chain of command? Will she then say the samples are way too old to "really" be proof? OR, will this continue on and on with people believing there is still a conspiracy against Avery?
I'm going back to the beginning. Started re-reading the "original" Avery trial thread quite a while ago, can't find it now. It was pretty good reading. Can anyone point me in it's direction? Thanks!

In regard to your hypothetical question i guess it's a wait & see as to what transpires in what KZ puts together as far as SA goes. The wheels of progress turn ever so slowly in these matters.
Here is a link to the Trial threads, but not sure if that's what you are looking for.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?587-Steven-Avery-Jury-Trial-Transcripts

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

In regard to your hypothetical question i guess it's a wait & see as to what transpires in what KZ puts together as far as SA goes. The wheels of progress turn ever so slowly in these matters.
Here is a link to the Trial threads, but not sure if that's what you are looking for.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?587-Steven-Avery-Jury-Trial-Transcripts

Thanks a bunch! Gotta go reacquaint myself.

 

[krkrjx]

Let's say "what IF"
What IF the test results come back inconclusive, or, dare I say, with the same results as LE got? What then? Will Zellner accept that she got hoodwinked by Avery and drop it? Will she NOT accept the results and claim that THOSE results were planted or manipulated in some way? Not processed correctly? No proper chain of command? Will she then say the samples are way too old to "really" be proof? OR, will this continue on and on with people believing there is still a conspiracy against Avery?
I'm going back to the beginning. Started re-reading the "original" Avery trial thread quite a while ago, can't find it now. It was pretty good reading. Can anyone point me in it's direction? Thanks!

ETA: Found it!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Teresa-Marie-Halbach-25-Manitowoc-31-Oct-2005

Good questions...I suggest you email Zellner, or send her a tweet with your questions.

We can research what she has done in other cases but we really cannot know what she will do in any specific case that is ongoing. Best way to get accurate information on that is ask KZ directly.

 

[missy1974]

Let's say "what IF"
What IF the test results come back inconclusive, or, dare I say, with the same results as LE got? What then? Will Zellner accept that she got hoodwinked by Avery and drop it? Will she NOT accept the results and claim that THOSE results were planted or manipulated in some way? Not processed correctly? No proper chain of command? Will she then say the samples are way too old to "really" be proof? OR, will this continue on and on with people believing there is still a conspiracy against Avery?
I'm going back to the beginning. Started re-reading the "original" Avery trial thread quite a while ago, can't find it now. It was pretty good reading. Can anyone point me in it's direction? Thanks!

ETA: Found it!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Teresa-Marie-Halbach-25-Manitowoc-31-Oct-2005

What are the same results as LE got? She isn't doing the same testing as far as I know. She wants to test things that LE never tested, she wants to do "blood age testing", LE never did this. I hope she confirms the DNA is even SA's before they do any other testing , any "good" lab would, right? Well except for the FBI, they didn't do that, so maybe the lab or labs she is using won't either. She can't test anything with TH's DNA because the one thing that tied her to the garage was so minute that it was all used in the compromised test that Culhane did on it. The one where she deviated from protocol to "put her in the garage". I believe there are items she wants to test for chemicals, the key being one... LE never performed that test either. She actually wants the swabs that they used for testing to test them for any residue too IIRC. All the tests she wants to do, I am pretty sure they have not done.

As for them being inconclusive, then they are just that. I think there should be some real concern here about how the evidence has been handled over the last 10 years. For example, a producer doing a show for Reelz (I think that was the name?), had a photograph on facebook of herself handling the key that was in evidence. How is that okay? How many other people had access to that key or other evidence? I saw clips from the trial where evidence was being handled without gloves.... does this bring the integrity of the evidence in to question? Absolutely... and shouldn't it? What if that pelvic bone that was found in the quarry is proven to be TH's? What if the swabs/blood has not been stored properly and it is not longer testable? that would be convenient.

There are lots of what if questions. What if the test come back and it shows his blood is dated to 1996? What if testing on the bones come back and they are not TH's? What if the fingerprints are from someone that shouldn't have been there? What if the key or swabs show residue of something that shouldn't be there? What if someone has come forward already and told KZ exactly what happened? Will the State then drop it or will they continue on and on and on? Shoot, there are still people (LE included) who believe he assaulted PB and won't let that go yet.

The original thread is enlightening for sure. It sure shows how much the media plays into the thought process. IMO I remember listening to an early news report, possibly right after Avery was arrested, talking about all the blood found at the salvage yard or at Avery's. I thought for sure when we got all the documents we would see that..... still waiting....

 

[dexter75]

What are the same results as LE got? She isn't doing the same testing as far as I know. She wants to test things that LE never tested, she wants to do "blood age testing", LE never did this. I hope she confirms the DNA is even SA's before they do any other testing , any "good" lab would, right? Well except for the FBI, they didn't do that, so maybe the lab or labs she is using won't either. She can't test anything with TH's DNA because the one thing that tied her to the garage was so minute that it was all used in the compromised test that Culhane did on it. The one where she deviated from protocol to "put her in the garage". I believe there are items she wants to test for chemicals, the key being one... LE never performed that test either. She actually wants the swabs that they used for testing to test them for any residue too IIRC. All the tests she wants to do, I am pretty sure they have not done.

As for them being inconclusive, then they are just that. I think there should be some real concern here about how the evidence has been handled over the last 10 years. For example, a producer doing a show for Reelz (I think that was the name?), had a photograph on facebook of herself handling the key that was in evidence. How is that okay? How many other people had access to that key or other evidence? I saw clips from the trial where evidence was being handled without gloves.... does this bring the integrity of the evidence in to question? Absolutely... and shouldn't it? What if that pelvic bone that was found in the quarry is proven to be TH's? What if the swabs/blood has not been stored properly and it is not longer testable? that would be convenient.

There are lots of what if questions. What if the test come back and it shows his blood is dated to 1996? What if testing on the bones come back and they are not TH's? What if the fingerprints are from someone that shouldn't have been there? What if the key or swabs show residue of something that shouldn't be there? What if someone has come forward already and told KZ exactly what happened? Will the State then drop it or will they continue on and on and on? Shoot, there are still people (LE included) who believe he assaulted PB and won't let that go yet.

The original thread is enlightening for sure. It sure shows how much the media plays into the thought process. IMO I remember listening to an early news report, possibly right after Avery was arrested, talking about all the blood found at the salvage yard or at Avery's. I thought for sure when we got all the documents we would see that..... still waiting....

EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT POST!
😉🤘
JMO

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[dexter75]

Thanks a bunch! Gotta go reacquaint myself.

Sounds like a great idea
JMO

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[Deleted member 39678]

Let's say "what IF"
What IF the test results come back inconclusive, or, dare I say, with the same results as LE got? What then? Will Zellner accept that she got hoodwinked by Avery and drop it? Will she NOT accept the results and claim that THOSE results were planted or manipulated in some way? Not processed correctly? No proper chain of command? Will she then say the samples are way too old to "really" be proof? OR, will this continue on and on with people believing there is still a conspiracy against Avery?
I'm going back to the beginning. Started re-reading the "original" Avery trial thread quite a while ago, can't find it now. It was pretty good reading. Can anyone point me in it's direction? Thanks!

ETA: Found it!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Teresa-Marie-Halbach-25-Manitowoc-31-Oct-2005

I like your thought provoking post.

It will be interesting to see how Zellner reacts if things don't go the way she anticipates. JMO

 

[Limaes]

Let's say "what IF"
What IF the test results come back inconclusive, or, dare I say, with the same results as LE got? What then? Will Zellner accept that she got hoodwinked by Avery and drop it? Will she NOT accept the results and claim that THOSE results were planted or manipulated in some way? Not processed correctly? No proper chain of command? Will she then say the samples are way too old to "really" be proof? OR, will this continue on and on with people believing there is still a conspiracy against Avery?
I'm going back to the beginning. Started re-reading the "original" Avery trial thread quite a while ago, can't find it now. It was pretty good reading. Can anyone point me in it's direction? Thanks!

ETA: Found it!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Teresa-Marie-Halbach-25-Manitowoc-31-Oct-2005

KZ isn't even attempting to redo any tests that the State has already done. She is not going to take a chance on validating the States results imo. I have read her list of tests she wants and I can't see how any of them are going to exonerate him. For example, the underwear and the bumper light may well contain fingerprints or DNA that is totally unrelated to the case. It is only muddying the waters imo, and it will not get him exonerated or a new trial

Like all of SA's previous attorneys, KZ refuses to have her own EDTA tests on the blood vial. This is very telling.

What never really gets discussed is the actions of his trial lawyers regarding the blood vial. In his interview on Nov 9th, SA had knowledge that the State had a sample of his blood because he was already claiming that it was planted.

His attorneys knew about it by July 20 at the latest but did nothing about it until 6 days before the deadline for discovery (which was in December)when the State learned they were going to introduce the opened packaging as evidence that it had been tampered with. Can you believe in all those months they did not attempt to do one single test on the so called planted blood? Remember the "red letter day for the defense"? Funny he forgot to mention he had known about it for months and did nothing. Some say they purposely withheld their knowledge of the vial so the State would not have enough time to test it.

Source = http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Exclude-or-to-Analyze-Blood-Vial-Evidence.pdf

When the State filed a motion to test the blood for EDTA and the quantity, the defense filed a motion to BLOCK the testing. How unbelievable is that? My guess is the reason they unsuccessfully attempted to BLOCK the testing is the same reason that KZ, and every other attorney in between, won't do it. Because it points to his guilt.

Source = http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Blood-Vial-Evidence-and-Blood-Spot-Cards.pdf

If KZ wants to waste time and money on irrelevent testing, I say go for it.

ETA: None of his attorneys, including KZ, has ever sought the services of a blood spatter expert either. Again, very telling imo.

 

[dexter75]

KZ isn't even attempting to redo any tests that the State has already done. She is not going to take a chance on validating the States results imo. I have read her list of tests she wants and I can't see how any of them are going to exonerate him. For example, the underwear and the bumper light may well contain fingerprints or DNA that is totally unrelated to the case. It is only muddying the waters imo, and it will not get him exonerated or a new trial

Like all of SA's previous attorneys, KZ refuses to have her own EDTA tests on the blood vial. This is very telling.

What never really gets discussed is the actions of his trial lawyers regarding the blood vial. In his interview on Nov 9th, SA had knowledge that the State had a sample of his blood because he was already claiming that it was planted.

His attorneys knew about it by July 20 at the latest but did nothing about it until 6 days before the deadline for discovery (which was in December)when the State learned they were going to introduce the opened packaging as evidence that it had been tampered with. Can you believe in all those months they did not attempt to do one single test on the so called planted blood? Remember the "red letter day for the defense"? Funny he forgot to mention he had known about it for months and did nothing. Some say they purposely withheld their knowledge of the vial so the State would not have enough time to test it.

Source = http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Exclude-or-to-Analyze-Blood-Vial-Evidence.pdf

When the State filed a motion to test the blood for EDTA and the quantity, the defense filed a motion to BLOCK the testing. How unbelievable is that? My guess is the reason they unsuccessfully attempted to BLOCK the testing is the same reason that KZ, and every other attorney in between, won't do it. Because it points to his guilt.

Source = http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Blood-Vial-Evidence-and-Blood-Spot-Cards.pdf

If KZ wants to waste time and money on irrelevent testing, I say go for it.

Why is it unbelievable the defense didn't want SA blood tested via edta?
EDTA (THEN )
WAS NOT A RELIABLE TEST AT ALL.
IN FACT, THE EDTA TEST HADN'T BEEN USED BEFORE THE AVERY CASE IN YEARS.

IMO KZ knows what tests to run/have ordered to free her client.
Just because YOU or anyone else doesn't understand her logic..well, WE are not the EXPERTS on the matter.

FYI
Kirsty Spaulding reached out to Zellner
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...ish-scientist-break-open-avery-case/92459398/


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[Limaes]

Why is it unbelievable the defense didn't want SA blood tested via edta?
EDTA (THEN )
WAS NOT A RELIABLE TEST AT ALL.
IN FACT, THE EDTA TEST HADN'T BEEN USED BEFORE THE AVERY CASE IN YEARS.

IMO KZ knows what tests to run/have ordered to free her client.
Just because YOU or anyone else doesn't understand her logic..well, WE are not the EXPERTS on the matter.

FYI
Kirsty Spaulding reached out to Zellner
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...ish-scientist-break-open-avery-case/92459398/


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Not really interested in hub-bub from the defense, especially when comparing the blood found not only in her car, but his car and his trailer would have been more accurate.

Research scientists peer reviewed the method.

"The question of blood-evidence tampering in a criminal trial has led not only to improved analytical
techniques for the determination of EDTA, but also to the demonstration that a relatively new technique is ready to be used as credible scientific evidence in the courtroom."

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...icle-from-Journal-of-Analytical-Chemistry.pdf

 

[dexter75]

Not really interested in hub-bub from the defense, especially when comparing the blood found not only in her car, but his car and his trailer would have been more accurate.

Research scientists peer reviewed the method.

"The question of blood-evidence tampering in a criminal trial has led not only to improved analytical
techniques for the determination of EDTA, but also to the demonstration that a relatively new technique is ready to be used as credible scientific evidence in the courtroom."

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...icle-from-Journal-of-Analytical-Chemistry.pdf

Yes well you were commenting on the DEFENSE's Lawyers page so😉

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[Limaes]

Yes well you were commenting on the DEFENSE's Lawyers page so😉

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And.....?

You were citing the defense as a source, so...

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Why is it unbelievable the defense didn't want SA blood tested via edta?
EDTA (THEN )
WAS NOT A RELIABLE TEST AT ALL.
IN FACT, THE EDTA TEST HADN'T BEEN USED BEFORE THE AVERY CASE IN YEARS.

IMO KZ knows what tests to run/have ordered to free her client.
Just because YOU or anyone else doesn't understand her logic..well, WE are not the EXPERTS on the matter.

FYI
Kirsty Spaulding reached out to Zellner
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...ish-scientist-break-open-avery-case/92459398/


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:yeahthat:

Thanks!!!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Not really interested in hub-bub from the defense, especially when comparing the blood found not only in her car, but his car and his trailer would have been more accurate.

Research scientists peer reviewed the method.

"The question of blood-evidence tampering in a criminal trial has led not only to improved analytical
techniques for the determination of EDTA, but also to the demonstration that a relatively new technique is ready to be used as credible scientific evidence in the courtroom."

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...icle-from-Journal-of-Analytical-Chemistry.pdf

.
KZ has people from all over the world reaching out to her to help, why would she use a controversial method, when there are other methods to prove SA's innocence.

 

[dexter75]

And.....?

You were citing the defense as a source, so...

Nooooo
A new poster came on with " what if "
As per the usual folks chime in with opinions..
You stated you don't care what the hub dub defense has to say..or along those lines. ( watching the Lion's game and don't care to go back)
My point is/was..this is his DEFENSE TWEET THREAD..which you have no problem commenting.
My point is it seems IMO there's no problem insulting/questioning Zellner or her logic,
just don't give explanations or scenarios..facts if you will, that actually show she's doing exactly what she knows she should be to defend her client.
Because, well, you don't care to hear it..

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[missy1974]

Just quickly because I have to go to work....

1. Wasn't it in early 2006 in an email from Kratz to Culhane, something about Wiegert checking on the blood to see if it was what it was? So who knew about the blood early on? The State or was it just SA rambling on about ALL the blood they have taken from him over the years. I don't think SA had any way of knowing that it was literally sitting in a box on the counter in Manitowoc County Court house.

2. LeBeau's EDTA testing was peer reviewed? When and where is this? The only peer reviewing of EDTA testing I am aware of without going hunting is the 1996 EDTA test for the OJ case, and it was peer reviewed and determined to not be reliable, I think?

3. The FBI lab is only available to the State and LE, it is not available to defendants AFAIK. So the defense was expected to find a lab to do a test that was not being done and pay for that? They didn't have unlimited funds like the State did. Wasn't it determined that Buting and Strang made less then minimum wage on this case with the funds available to them from SA's settlement?

4. Literally having a test done while the trial has already started is not playing fair IMO. The State knew about the blood long before the defense did, again IMO, and why did they wait to have the FBI do the test? Give the defense time to possibly find someone?

I think it's quite possible that some of these world renowned scientists that have contacted Zellner have 'peer reviewed' the FBI's testing, and I would not be surprised to find out that it's just an unreliable test period.

JMO