Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 *AL extortion trial* *Guilty* #3

[NuttMegg]

Joran's first girlfriend

 

[Mica]

As I posted above, I grew up in Florida (Ft. Lauderdale).

It was the shallowest shores that had the strongest undertows. See Hollywood (FL) or Hallandale, I can't recall which it was. (I moved out of Florida almost a half-century ago.) I loved that beach for body surfing because the strong undertows made for higher waves.

I have never been to Aruba, but I'm not sure it's true that the shallower waters are LESS likely to carry an object out to sea.

March 22, 2006

[…]

One of the most persistent theories clouding the case is the notion that her body was dumped out at sea.

But Dr. Ruben Cruz, the head of the island's search and rescue team showed 48 Hours that an unweighted body thrown overboard near the shore would wash up on the beach.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn't happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

Natalee Holloway: New Clues

Investigator Tells <b><i>48 Hours</i></b> She Probably Died From Excessive Alcohol, Maybe Drugs

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Megnut]

March 22, 2006

[…]

One of the most persistent theories clouding the case is the notion that her body was dumped out at sea.

But Dr. Ruben Cruz, the head of the island's search and rescue team showed 48 Hours that an unweighted body thrown overboard near the shore would wash up on the beach.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn't happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

Natalee Holloway: New Clues

Investigator Tells <b><i>48 Hours</i></b> She Probably Died From Excessive Alcohol, Maybe Drugs

www.cbsnews.com

Every boat? Even a tiny rowboat?

okay, what about the next night? What about from a very different starting point?

What about that night weighted down? He had access to cinderblocks, to netting and she would've been -- sorry to say it -- very bloody... bait trap.

Maybe he only had to row over and out a half mile -- weighted changes everything.

JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Every boat? Even a tiny rowboat?

okay, what about the next night? What about from a very different starting point?

What about that night weighted down? He had access to cinderblocks, to netting and she would've been -- sorry to say it -- very bloody... bait trap.

Maybe he only had to row over and out a half mile -- weighted changes everything.

JMO

You'd think they could have driven her to a different not so shallow and placid bay. I remember rolling my eyes at the idea they checked "every boat". If Joran was in casinos all the time he'd have all sorts of low life older buddies.

 

[GOBliaison]

^^bbm

I don't follow the use of the United States Eight Amendment-- the US did not impose JV's Peruvian sentence. His United States Constitutional rights apply to his case and practice before the federal court while he's lawfully situated in the U.S.

While I've not accessed the 2001 Treaty between Peru and the U.S., it seems to me that first and foremost, the U.S. has a vested interest in protecting and honoring any Treaty it has with another country and that as soon as JV has exhausted his last and final appeal (if convicted), he will be returned to Peru to complete his initial, existing sentence for murdering Ms. Flores.

In other words, pursuant to the Treaty, once JV has exhausted his final appeal rights pursuant to the US Constitution, he will no longer be legally situated in the U.S., and as a foreigner no longer permitted here legally, subject to deportation. MOO

His best bet would be to claim asylum. No rush, either. Feb '25 is a good ways off. Imo, a dead cert, 'til then at the very least . And why not? It's worked for millions.

Sarcasm switch: Neutral
Revulsion Meter needle: Wedged off-scale HIGH; Overheat Warning Alarm impossible to re-set.
...really should have gone w/ that integral Class C extinguisher option...
dumb​

 

[Barb Wire]

You'd think they could have driven her to a different not so shallow and placid bay. I remember rolling my eyes at the idea they checked "every boat". If Joran was in casinos all the time he'd have all sorts of low life older buddies.

Remember Joran's friend Koen he had a small boat that was rumored to help get Natalee's body out to sea PVS arranged it ..

 

[schooling]

His best bet would be to claim asylum. No rush, either. Feb '25 is a good ways off. Imo, a dead cert, 'til then at the very least . And why not? It's worked for millions.

Sarcasm switch: Neutral
Revulsion Meter needle: Wedged off-scale HIGH; Overheat Warning Alarm impossible to re-set.
...really should have gone w/ that integral Class C extinguisher option...
dumb​

It would be denied in 0.1 seconds flat.

He was in a Peruvian prison because he murdered someone. Not because he was unfairly persecuted for expressing free will or for reasons he has no control over.

The guilty verdict and the evidence against him assures that he’s going back. Whether the death sentence is of the official kind or at the hands of one of his fellow prisoners…our government is indifferent.

And so am I. Bye bye Joran.

You could be joking of course and that could have just whooshed over my head. If so, apologies.

 

[schooling]

There's more of a mystery to me re how Joran turned out, as I got no bad vibes from his parents. Some screw inexplicably loose. Possibly exacerbated by hanging around at casinos from age 14, his size being his passport and ticket to luck with girls.
As opposed to Watts for example his upbringing and family of origin have red flags all over the place.

Imo

Dahmer and Bundy both grew up in loving, seemingly normal families. Both also had the drive to torture innocent defenseless living animals at very young ages.

Sometimes nature doesn’t really care what nurture has to say or think.

Edit: worth mentioning that this confession makes Joran a suspected serial killer, by the FBI’s most recent definition anyway (after all, they coined the term).

 

[NuttMegg]

Remember Joran's friend Koen he had a small boat that was rumored to help get Natalee's body out to sea PVS arranged it ..

I don't remember, but i've forgotten a lot. No way could they check every boat. They didn't even start for what, 2-3 days later when they learned what beach it was supposed to be anyway.

 

[arielilane]

"The family accepted the deal in order to 'finally get the answers we’ve been seeking for all these years,' Beth said."

In this article, it mentions the 12 year Statute of Limitations Aruba has for murder. My question is, why is Aruba asking for the case file?

Are there other possible charges he could face there, if not murder? Will the loop hole previously discussed come into play? Hoping this is not the end of justice for Natalee and that #JoranvanderSloot faces further penalties.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715466106079498757

 

[NuttMegg]

Dahmer and Bundy both grew up in loving, seemingly normal families. Both also had the drive to torture innocent defenseless living animals at very young ages.

Sometimes nature doesn’t really care what nurture has to say or think.

Edit: worth mentioning that this confession makes Joran a suspected serial killer, by the FBI’s most recent definition anyway (after all, they coined the term).

What's the definition? Anything >1 victim is a serial killer? If the FBI does have definitions like that, then that makes the recent court leniency even more bizarre and irresponsible.

 

[NuttMegg]

"The family accepted the deal in order to 'finally get the answers we’ve been seeking for all these years,' Beth said."

In this article, it mentions the 12 year Statute of Limitations Aruba has for murder. My question is, why is Aruba asking for the case file?

Are there other possible charges he could face there, if not murder? Will the loop hole previously discussed come into play? Hoping this is not the end of justice for Natalee and that #JoranvanderSloot faces further penalties.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715466106079498757

View attachment 454909

I heard there are distinctions, ie murder, manslaughter etc but most everyone is just saying 12 years. Imo he can now lie and say the usa made him confess in lieu of getting the book thrown at him. Iirc 4 months ago the possible sentence being discussed here was 40 MORE years. Something stinks, thats for sure. Why would they ever want the image of a slap on the hand be the result of so much hoopla and taxpayer funds.

 

[GOBliaison]

1 12 years is an incredibly short Statute Of Limitations on the murder of another human, and conveys such a low regard for human life. If that's true about what they do in Aruba with murder, so sad to hear. I defer to any Aruban lawyer in the forum as to its truth.
2 Of course Aruba's SOL is not a complete Get Out of Jail Free card for murdering Natalee. AS WE SEE RIGHT NOW, long after that 12 years has ended, JVDS can be tried and locked up in other jurisdictions for things he has done, and at times legal jurisdiction on crimes may extend beyond borders. Think about where we are.
... As an aside, I know some in this forum smugly stated very early on that this charge was pointless, a dead end, not really a crime, not prosecutable in the US, and just a meaningless diversion for him, yet as it unfolds we see the exact opposite is true -- it was indeed a crime that mattered, his neck was in a noose, and now he's working hard to somehow lessen what punishment he will be hit with here. This was certainly the right move. Guilty, caught red-handed. Case closed.
3 What if there's another charge and another prosecution down the road? It could happen. I truly believe he will not be truly safe from further prosecution, no matter what the Aruba SOL might say about him killing Natalee and whatever plea deal he signs in the US, until and unless Beth Holloway is also satisfied that he has received the justice for his crime against her daughter. She is a smart determined mother who will find a way, if she thinks it's needed. He'd better watch out, and mind his manners. If he's smart (and I don't think he is as smart as he thinks he is), he'd better do everything he can not just to get a deal, but also to see that Beth (who has the full power of the USA itself on her side) is now satisfied too. Just saying.
4 To add to that point - Aruba's SOL actually might not be as helpful as he might think, and might open a door. [I won't share my thinking on that until he signs and submits his sworn-under-oath statement and the sentence and plea is in place, but will share more in a day or three.]
5 So is this the last chapter? Or will there be even more doors opened in the future to take him down further? IMO Girl-Killing Murder Boy needs to stay locked up forever, or executed. We'll see where it goes.

Ah... The Law...indeed.

But we know the law is rife with myriad and convoluted means for the running, tolling, resuming, re-setting, etc. of all sorts of inconvenient tick-tock conditions and drop-dead caveats, read statutes of limitations, for example.
And this, the case most likely, universally / transnationally/ cross-culturally, iow globally.
A pretty conservative "very likely", IMH&CO.

 

[mickey2942]

<modsnip: Fox News is no longer an approved source at Websleuths>

Beth Holloway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So much of Beth Holloway's life changed after Natalee disappeared. And she has been absolutely driven to make Joran van Der Sloot held accountable.

 

[NuttMegg]

Dahmer and Bundy both grew up in loving, seemingly normal families. Both also had the drive to torture innocent defenseless living animals at very young ages.

Sometimes nature doesn’t really care what nurture has to say or think.

Edit: worth mentioning that this confession makes Joran a suspected serial killer, by the FBI’s most recent definition anyway (after all, they coined the term).

Didn't Bundy grow up not knowing his "mother" was really his sister? Something like that. Anyway a tad aberrant, I wouldn't call that normal.

 

[Marysmith]

Didn't Bundy grow up not knowing his "mother" was really his sister? Something like that. Anyway a tad aberrant, I wouldn't call that normal.

And his maternal grandfather was very abusive I believe… but that’s just my recall.

 

[NuttMegg]

And his maternal grandfather was very abusive I believe… but that’s just my recall.

I could see myself when younger responding kindly and openly to a guy with an arm cast & vwbug. I guess I wouldn't be posting on WS now (!!!)

With Joran, he apparently had his pick of girls from the grad classes and vacationers who flowed in. One of the students said he looked cute in the casino that afternoon and they speculated about who would hook up with him. (Posted here 2 days ago). In that vid I posted early today, his young first girlfriend talks about his believable innocence gradually changing to lie after lie regarding hooking up with girls. Easy money or easy conquests, neither is good for young teens; imo. Sooner or later there will be a challenge.

 

[Mica]

Interesting…. I forgot about this story…

Updated Jul. 14, 2017 4:59PM EDT Published Jul. 15, 2010 7:01PM EDT

Joran Van Der Sloot’s Sex-Trade Scheme​

Held in a Peruvian jail on murder charges, Joran van der Sloot is now also accused of trafficking underage Thai girls for sex—including two who have gone missing.

Joran Van Der Sloot’s Sex-Trade Scheme

Held in a Peruvian jail on murder charges, Joran van der Sloot is now also accused of trafficking underage Thai girls for sex—including two who have gone missing.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Seattle1]

The pattern is the same here whether it be Chris Watts, Scott Peterson, or Ted Bundy,...and then the offender will hire a female defense to continue enabling their attitude when every blow against the victim was also the face of their mothers! JMO

Natalee Holloway's mother reveals bizarre daughter's killers parents

Beth Holloway recalled an uncomfortable meeting with the parents of her daughter Natalee Holloway's killer Joran van der Sloot in which they disclosed graphic details about his sex life.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[NuttMegg]

The pattern is the same here whether it be Chris Watts, Scott Peterson, or Ted Bundy,...and then the offender will hire a female defense to continue enabling their attitude when every blow against the victim was also the face of their mothers! JMO

Natalee Holloway's mother reveals bizarre daughter's killers parents

Beth Holloway recalled an uncomfortable meeting with the parents of her daughter Natalee Holloway's killer Joran van der Sloot in which they disclosed graphic details about his sex life.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I remember way back in 2005 or so when Beth told that story about Anita, Paulus sweating etc. Iirc it was on GVS show on TV. But I can't tell from that source if she is bringing it up about his parents again, now that Paulus is long dead? Anita was always very kind to Beth.