Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 *AL extortion trial* *Guilty* #3

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NuttMegg said:
Where did Greta get info about the possibility of vds being paroled early?

Greta's last minute filing, oct 15 iirc was stuffed with politics, a huge paragraph on a proceeding against the president's son. I do think she's using this case to advance her agenda against the 2010 attorney a prominent member let"s say not of gvs' persuasion.


I share her concern about the concurrency but because it seems so blatantly imo corrupt. That treaty imo wasn't meant to give out favors. Imo u & i & we paid for that little game of favors.
If Beth and Dave approved the deal; which they did, it looks to me like gvs should back them. She's bragging on one hand about getting him back to usa on the other hand wringing her own objectives out of it. Imo

Btw she was mainly objecting to the judge that SHE, gvs, should have been able t9 personally present the case to the judge and thst SHE personally should give Beth's victim impact statement. So it was publicity that gvs was seeking. Judge said take a hike.
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Greta was responsible, in part, for getting Joran extradited to the US. She has been in communication with the authorities and government officials in Peru and has worked this case for 18 years. Beth was in agreement and asked Greta to speak at the hearing.…

 

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The FBI updated their definition of serial killing to "two or more".

Also, Ann Rule described Bundy's childhood as fairly normal. People have stretched the truth to try to give him a troubled childhood with click baity titles, arm chair psychology and abundant speculation. But a potentially abusive grandfather and not knowing who your dad is doesn't make one fascinated by knives at the age of 3 and capable of burning cats alive.

But I digress....if Joran hadn't been locked up for the better part of a decade he would have certainly committed more crimes. IMO. He should never be allowed to walk the streets again.
 
I’m lost.….
By “prn” are you leaving out a vowel on purpose.

(If so i understand why, but I could be totally off base.) I’ve never heard this b4. I’m not arguing with you- just wait to make sure I’m understanding correctly. He put THAT kind of tape on when NH was in the car?
 
justwannahelp said:
I’m lost.….
By “prn” are you leaving out a vowel on purpose.

(If so i understand why, but I could be totally off base.) I’ve never heard this b4. I’m not arguing with you- just wait to make sure I’m understanding correctly. He put THAT kind of tape on when NH was in the car?
Click to expand...
Yes. If I use the word spelled out it is censored by the advertizer. In this case for my theory it was imp to show that he was using that same word 2 times that night. Iirc it was one of the Ks that reportedly put the cdr on. They were in the front seat iirc.
 
On the morning of May 30, 2005, Holloway never joined them. The Mountain Brook group returned to the United States, however, Holloway's whereabouts remain unknown.

In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum, talks with the esteemed prosecutor and TV personality, Nancy Grace. Both women share personal anecdotes and experiences, they emphasize the power of resilience, care, and justice. This episode offers a poignant exploration of the trials and tribulations faced in the pursuit of justice, making it an absolute must-listen for true crime enthusiasts.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1716124348346511416

 
AL US Attorney could have saved the life of Ms. Flores-Ramirez.

people.com

Natalee Holloway's Mom Reveals How Joran van der Sloot Killed Her Daughter in 2005 (Exclusive)

Joran van der Sloot pleaded guilty Wednesday to extorting Beth Holloway and provided information about her daughter's death as part of the plea deal.
people.com people.com

10/18/23

But Van der Sloot later emailed Beth and her associates to say the information he had provided was “worthless,” according to the indictment.

"I paid my daughter’s killer money," Beth said in court today, AL.com reports. "That’s shocking. I don’t think anyone can really wrap their mind around what that means."

Kelly contacted law enforcement about the initial transactions, but law enforcement did not immediately intervene, a source close to the investigation tells PEOPLE. And that same month, van der Sloot left the Caribbean island and flew to Peru.

[..]

By the end of the month, 21-year-old Flores Ramírez was dead — exactly five years to the day of Natalee’s disappearance.

Van der Sloot – who until this June had been in a Peruvian prison on a 28-year murder sentence for her 2010 killing — later reportedly told investigators that Flores Ramírez had discovered his identity as the person of interest in Natalee’s disappearance while sharing a hotel room together in Lima. The two fought, and van der Sloot, then 22, would later admit to beating, choking and smothering her to death May 30, 2010, ABC News reported that year.

Van der Sloot was promptly arrested by Peruvian law enforcement, and Alabama filed federal fraud charges a month later.
 
justwannahelp said:
I’m lost.….
By “prn” are you leaving out a vowel on purpose.

(If so i understand why, but I could be totally off base.) I’ve never heard this b4. I’m not arguing with you- just wait to make sure I’m understanding correctly. He put THAT kind of tape on when NH was in the car?
Click to expand...

OP likely never heard this before because it's NOT in the final 2023 confession by JVDS. (Both the 3-minute confession and transcript of JVDS's confession have been released and posted here).

The comment about prn site (along with checking soccer scores and going to school the following day) is just another alleged statement/confession relayed to BH by the killer during the past 18 years:

nypost.com

Court releases chilling audio of Joran van der Sloot’s Natalee Holloway murder confession

In 3 minutes and 45 seconds, Joran van der Sloot revealed he brutally attacked Alabama 18-year-old Natalee Holloway on a beach in Aruba in 2005 after she refused his sexual advances.
nypost.com nypost.com

10/19/23

A chilling new audio recording reveals Joran van der Sloot calmly describing to cops how he smashed Natalee Holloway’s head with a cinder block for rebuffing his sexual advances on a tropical beach nearly two decades ago.

The 3-minute, 45-second recording, released by federal prosecutors in Alabama as part of van der Sloot’s guilty plea in a related case, betrays the Dutch killer’s callousness over the gruesome 2005 slaying.

[..]

“How could he have murdered her, and then he goes home and checks the soccer scores, gets on a *advertiser censored* site, gets up, takes a shower, and goes to school,” Beth Holloway, Natalee’s mother, told NBC News.
 
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And yes, I consider the allegation worth noting as it was said to have happened twice within a short quantity of hours.

If others here don't think it's worth it to compare things he said, no problem. But i am not the source of the rumor cited in court. Mrs Holloway is per the person reporting above. Ivana Hrynkiw Shatara.

If Mrs. Holloway also repeated the rumor to NBC, well then she is repeating rumors again that apparently are not in the confession.
 
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NuttMegg said:
And yes, I consider the allegation worth noting as it was said to have happened twice within a short quantity of hours.

If others here don't think it's worth it to compare things he said, no problem. But i am not the source of the rumor cited in court. Mrs Holloway is per the person reporting above.
Click to expand...

It's true, and in compliance with TOS, we have MSM directly quoting BH that the killer alleged he went home and browsed subject sites on the internet.

However, adding or supplementing the same with allegations about the K brothers playing cd's inside the car in the presence of the victim without any MSM link is obviously causing confusion. JMO
 
Seattle1 said:
It's true, and in compliance with TOS, we have MSM directly quoting BH that the killer alleged he went home and browsed subject sites on the internet.

However, adding or supplementing the same with allegations about the K brothers playing cd's inside the car in the presence of the victim without any MSM link is obviously causing confusion. JMO
Click to expand...
I am not reporting that to the media. If you followed what I was posting on...it was comparing what he has been reported as saying over the years to see the first instance it was mentioned then trying to establish a time line, HERE, from that. I added like a detective might do placing a time line on the wall. This methodology is not complex. I suggested that if someone had time it might be worthwhile. I wasn't even focusing on the confession except for a few words like "walked her" etc.


If people are confused then I would suggest going upthread to where I was discussing that.

I am not in a court of law nor am I being interviewed by NBC.

Given that the only assurances that his confession is true come from a polygraph. And given that other previous rumors were not, that we know of checked by polygraph, imo it's not right to insert rumors into the interviews about the confession. It's either in the confession or it's not. Because everyone will assume it's in the confession.

Given that she inserted those rumors re what he did when he went home.....into her court statements, I had no idea whatsoever that her claims were not part of the confession.

No, it's not me confusing posters, because i am not standing there in court or giving interviews to NBC and using rumors instead of that which he actually confessed to.
 
NuttMegg said:
I am not reporting that to the media. If you followed what I was posting on...it was comparing what he has been reported as saying over the years to see the first instance it was mentioned then trying to establish a time line, HERE, from that. I added like a detective might do placing a time line on the wall. This methodology is not complex. I suggested that if someone had time it might be worthwhile. I wasn't even focusing on the confession except for a few words like "walked her" etc.


If people are confused then I would suggest going upthread to where I was discussing that.

I am not in a court of law nor am I being interviewed by NBC.

Given that the only assurances that his confession is true come from a polygraph. And given that other previous rumors were not, that we know of checked by polygraph, imo it's not right to insert rumors into the interviews about the confession. It's either in the confession or it's not. Because everyone will assume it's in the confession.

Given that she inserted those rumors re what he did when he went home.....into her court statements, I had no idea whatsoever that her claims were not part of the confession.

No, it's not me confusing posters, because i am not standing there in court or giving interviews to NBC and using rumors instead of that which he actually confessed to.
Click to expand...
What would be Beth Holloway's motive to make up something that police hadn't told her was in the confession??? He's enough of a monster, there's no need to embellish and make him any worse. Therefore I have to believe that everything that she reported was true about his behavior.
 
LinasK said:
What would be Beth Holloway's motive to make up something that police hadn't told her was in the confession??? He's enough of a monster, there's no need to embellish and make him any worse. Therefore I have to believe that everything that she reported was true about his behavior.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I mean. If it's included in court and to media outlets like NBC that Joran did thus or that; the interviewers will assume it's part of the confession. But it's not in the confession, it's pure rumor.

I'm all done with this. I suggested an interesting way of tracking down the key words he has reportedly said. A completely non controversial detective-iike exercise.

Mrs. Holloway repeated rumors in court, exceeding what is in the confession.

Like probably 15 million people watching this case I assumed what she was relating IN COURT was part of the confession. Now I see that it was NOT in the confession thus was not vetted by polygraph.
 
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NuttMegg said:
That's exactly what I mean. If it's included in court and to media outlets like NBC that Joran did thus or that; the interviewers will assume it's part of the confession. But it's not in the confession, it's pure rumor.

I'm all done with this. I suggested an interesting way of tracking down the key words he has reportedly said. A completely non controversial detective-iike exercise.

Mrs. Holloway repeated rumors in court, exceeding what is in the confession.

Like probably 15 million people watching this case I assumed what she was relating IN COURT was part of the confession. Now I see that it was NOT in the confession thus was not vetted by polygraph.
Click to expand...
Through the years, there were many old articles detailing what Joran did after he returned home from his time spent with Natalee. There was even computer forensic evidence provided. Most of those articles are no longer available. Had Greta been able to give her statement, perhaps she would have included Beth’s comment to the court … among many others.

[…]

Despite the different versions of what happened in the early-morning hours of May 30, it was widely reported that a few hours after Joran claims to have left Natalee, he returned home, turned on his computer at 3:25 a.m., browsed soccer scores at ESPN.com, checked his email, and visited *advertiser censored* (p*rn) sites for about an hour. Joran then took the bus to school at 6:40 AM.

[…]

Genesis of a Media Frenzy — Inside the Mind of Joran van der Sloot — Crime Library

Joran van der Sloot's media antics have overshadowed his alleged victims' plight, but is there a deeper psychology at work?
www.crimelibrary.org
 
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NuttMegg said:
I am not reporting that to the media. If you followed what I was posting on...it was comparing what he has been reported as saying over the years to see the first instance it was mentioned then trying to establish a time line, HERE, from that. I added like a detective might do placing a time line on the wall. This methodology is not complex. I suggested that if someone had time it might be worthwhile. I wasn't even focusing on the confession except for a few words like "walked her" etc.


If people are confused then I would suggest going upthread to where I was discussing that.

I am not in a court of law nor am I being interviewed by NBC.

Given that the only assurances that his confession is true come from a polygraph. And given that other previous rumors were not, that we know of checked by polygraph, imo it's not right to insert rumors into the interviews about the confession. It's either in the confession or it's not. Because everyone will assume it's in the confession.

Given that she inserted those rumors re what he did when he went home.....into her court statements, I had no idea whatsoever that her claims were not part of the confession.

No, it's not me confusing posters, because i am not standing there in court or giving interviews to NBC and using rumors instead of that which he actually confessed to.
Click to expand...
You tell yourself a lie for 18 years . In some people it becomes the truth. Then you could pass a polygraph test IMO. I save saved a list of Joran's confections. They are all deferent. I believe he killed her I just don't believe he walked her into the water and left. I believe PVS was involved in getting a boat to dump her at sea. JMO I have been on this case since May 31, 2005 I have some pictures lots of documents etc.
 
Barb Wire said:
You tell yourself a lie for 18 years . In some people it becomes the truth. Then you could pass a polygraph test IMO. I save saved a list of Joran's confections. They are all deferent. I believe he killed her I just don't believe he walked her into the water and left. I believe PVS was involved in getting a boat to dump her at sea. JMO I have been on this case since May 31, 2005 I have some pictures lots of documents etc.
Click to expand...

I believe the same, and like you, I have been following since day one…
 
NuttMegg said:
And yes, I consider the allegation worth noting as it was said to have happened twice within a short quantity of hours.

If others here don't think it's worth it to compare things he said, no problem. But i am not the source of the rumor cited in court. Mrs Holloway is per the person reporting above. Ivana Hrynkiw Shatara.

If Mrs. Holloway also repeated the rumor to NBC, well then she is repeating rumors again that apparently are not in the confession.
Click to expand...
I agree. I wasn’t arguing. Was just curious where it came from. Didn’t think you made it up. And i certainly don’t think BH did. Just wondering which “confession” of his it came from.

Was it something said in the recorded confession but not released to the public or was it something y’all learned earlier in the investigation years ago…
That’s more what i was trying to figure out.

I’m still catching up….

Thx for clarifying
 
NuttMegg said:
Yes. If I use the word spelled out it is censored by the advertizer. In this case for my theory it was imp to show that he was using that same word 2 times that night. Iirc it was one of the Ks that reportedly put the cdr on. They were in the front seat iirc.
Click to expand...
Gross!!! She likely knew at that point that she was not safe. I would have immediately began to worry about being raped. I also wonder if he drugged her drink. I read that they found the wrapper to a date rape drug in Stephany Flores’ car after he killed her. Article posted below.

Makes me think he drugged NH…

Here they mention his tale of her falling and hitting her head on a rock after taking ecstasy so his being left with “no choice” but to put her body into “shark infested” waters.
Article from 2005 with one of his tall tales

NYP article on murder of Stephanie Flores mentioning date rape drugs and possible plans to put her body in the ocean

I googled, btw, and apparently there are RARELY shark attacks in Aruba. The last one was in 2015! So I’m not buying the whole she just got gobbled up immediately by sharks….

I’m quoting:

Shark attacks are extremely rare in Aruba.

But despite being more famous for its shark-free waters, there is actually one documented shark attack in Aruba.

This incident occurred in 2015. It happened after a Venezuelan trading boat capsized, leaving Captain Adrian Esteban Rafael and four crew members clinging to the wreckage.

So why did her body disappear so quickly? The ocean is a big place - i guess that’s the only explanation. He or they likely anchored her somehow :(
 
Mica said:
March 22, 2006

[…]

One of the most persistent theories clouding the case is the notion that her body was dumped out at sea.

But Dr. Ruben Cruz, the head of the island's search and rescue team showed 48 Hours that an unweighted body thrown overboard near the shore would wash up on the beach.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn't happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.


www.cbsnews.com

Natalee Holloway: New Clues

Investigator Tells <b><i>48 Hours</i></b> She Probably Died From Excessive Alcohol, Maybe Drugs
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
Click to expand...
Interesting.
 
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