VA - Grateful Dead Fan - Unidentified male, 26 June 1995 - #1

[PonderingThings]

Trying2ID your post was very well said!

Another perspective?

Back in the early 70s there was a body that local law enforcement was trying to identify. It was a traffic accident. The man who died was not a transient, but had no identification.

I was a kid, and since everyone was talking about this news I asked my mom why someone wouldn't come forward to claim him... was he alone in the world?

My mom explained to me that it could be that he was alone in the world, or that the family didn't live in the city, or it could be that the family didn't have enough money to pay for a funeral. My reaction was

about that. She explained to me that there was assistance available to pay for a funeral, if a family couldn't afford it, but not everyone knew about it, or for various reasons would not take it. They knew that the government would bury their loved ones and just the knowledge that they died was enough for them.

I can remember this conversation with a great deal of clarity. My mom was a very wise woman. I don't think that is the case with all the John and Jane Does out there, but for some, even ones who die in tragic accidents, there may be a reason why someone has not come forward to identify them.

Perhaps if more people knew that their loved ones bones were sitting in cardboard boxes, instead of being at rest in a pauper's grave, they would somehow supply the information? All it would take is an anonymous letter or phone call.

By the way I went on with my life and have no idea if they ever did identify the man. My mother's explanation has stayed with me ever since though.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I am very aware of this unidentified young man.As I read about him I thought of a AA or NA program where they say like carolyn o or carolyn T so they do not say thier last name to keep thier anonymity.Maybe he was travling to the concert.

Suzanne

 

[Beyond Belief]

Somethings wrong with this picture. No money? Two tickets? I wonder if the drivers money was missing.

 

[PonderingThings]

Good point Beyond Belief. There are some people that would rob accident victims. This could have happened at the scene, before the emergency crews arrived.

If this happened then they stole his ID too. That would be another person who could have anonymously provided the information, but didn't.

 

[Mullins]

:woohoo: I like you on your soapbox.

Considering that I have two children both in this young man's age range and I would pray that if anything were to happen to them, that someone would try to find me. Kids can do somethings that adults do not understand and things can jst plain happen to cause problems within a family. This young man deserves to have his name known, he deserves to have a final resting place instead of in the coroner's office on a shelf. He deserves this because he was a human being and no one deserves to be unknown. He had no drugs in his system at the time of the accident, just maybe everyone that followed or attended Grateful Dead concerts were not druggies. Maybe he just liked the music. So, I believe that being unidentified is enough of a reason to try and help someone. If he were killed leaving a church function, would this have been more of a reason to try and help him???

Many of the missing in the world, just went out to the store or to a friend's house, this did make them targets? People are targets because there are so many sick and demented people out there, that do not care. Compare the number of people connected in some way with the Grateful Dead and the then compare how many people were last seen on the way to a friend's house or that were last seen at work...

It does not matter if the person is strung out on drugs and selling their bodies on the streets to support their habits... they are humans and someone loves them... And everyone should care!


STEPPING OFF MY SOAP BOX NOW!

 

[marylandmissing]

Trying2ID your post was very well said! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/clap.gif

Another perspective?

Back in the early 70s there was a body that local law enforcement was trying to identify. It was a traffic accident. The man who died was not a transient, but had no identification.

I was a kid, and since everyone was talking about this news I asked my mom why someone wouldn't come forward to claim him... was he alone in the world?

My mom explained to me that it could be that he was alone in the world, or that the family didn't live in the city, or it could be that the family didn't have enough money to pay for a funeral. My reaction was http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif about that. She explained to me that there was assistance available to pay for a funeral, if a family couldn't afford it, but not everyone knew about it, or for various reasons would not take it. They knew that the government would bury their loved ones and just the knowledge that they died was enough for them.

For awhile I was doing a little research on the cases that were solved by the DoeNetwork and what went wrong. Did a little presentation on this once for law enforcement...What I've seen continually is this:

A. Number one reason is age estimations of the unknown are off. Police may be searching for someone 20-25 when the missing person is 35, and therefore they won't get a hit through NCIC on it.
B. Person isn't reported missing. We've had several at Doe who were never reported missing, but family came to the site for assistance. Various reasons - missing was in trouble with the law, family was estranged and not allowed 'legally' to report the person missing, prime suspect is the one who didn't report them missing, or they were ignorant on how to report a person missing or if the report was still active.
C. Missing was not from the US
D. Foster child who ran more than several states over.
E. AFIS and DNA didn't exist. Florida and other states have cleared up a dozen or so UNID cases by rerunning fingerprints (many didn't have access to national fingerprint databases years ago).
F. Drifters who were reported missing in another state.
G. No one knows exactly when the person went missing, and therefore an estimated date is put into the system. We've seen several cases on Doe where the missing date was July, body found prior, and it matched up.
H. Person disappeared prior to 1985 and the missing person report wasn't in the system anymore.

 

[PonderingThings]

Wow! What a wealth of information you provided MarylandMissing. It does help explain some of the reasons why so many people remain unidentified! It is my opinion, that in the vast majority of cases authorities did their best to identify the Jane or John Doe. That's why its so perplexing! How can someone be searched for, by people who very much know what they are doing, and not be found? Your post has given us a glimpse of some very valid reasons why. Thank you!

I do have one outstanding question and perhaps you know the answer to it. If someone is declared legally dead is their missing person's information removed from the NCIC database?

 

[babydust2004]

this case has haunted me.as a matter of fact this case being posted on websleuths last year is how I became aware of thedoenetwork and joined them.
I came across a possible match today.I would like everyone's opinions

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/127umva.html

and

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/106dmmi.html

a couple of things that seem as possible matches to me,the missing was apparently wearing a rock band tshirt.not to say he would be wearing the same shirt after all those years but people tend to wear the same type of clothes.the last picture on the missing page the nose seems to me to be a perfect match.the height,weight,hair color all seem to be close and hazel eyes could be mistaken for brown.age also seems to be within range.let me know what you all think

 

[Mr. E]

The one thing that strikes me about the unidentified boy is that his nose looks crooked. Was there any mention of a broken nose?

 

[PonderingThings]

BabyDust2004 there is no doubt that there is a startling resemblance. The stats also match, even though he disappeared 5 years before. He'd be 1 year older and 1" taller than the estimates for John Doe.

I KNOW I researched Christopher Alan Temple before in relation to this John Doe. I don't remember why I didn't pursue it.

 

[trying2id]

The one thing that strikes me about the unidentified boy is that his nose looks crooked. Was there any mention of a broken nose?

The concern that I have is that he knocked out the windshield of the VW van is was traveling in, so how true are the pictures or sketches? From what the LE has told me, that most of the damage was to his face. First the windshield and then into a tree, face first. I have managed to get someone within the doenetwork to update the hair color information to reflect that it had been dyed red, mailing him copies of the accident records. The missing children's website is another story, I spoke with Tracey about the hair color way back in July and she also knew of the dye and has yet to correct it in their system. :banghead:

 

[Beyond Belief]

Those two really do look alike.

Are we thinking the note was from someone he was with at the concert? Maybe someone who left him there? Has further investigation been done into the driver of the car and his relationship with the passenger? Were the tickets used? Did the driver have a ticket? Was the driver known to have gone to the concert? Could there have been other passengers in the car who left the scene?

 

[Richard]

Hi
I am very aware of this unidentified young man.As I read about him I thought of a AA or NA program where they say like carolyn o or carolyn T so they do not say thier last name to keep thier anonymity. Maybe he was travling to the concert. Suzanne

I looked in my old file of notes on this case. Here is what I was told by a person who suggested that this young man might have been a "Wharf Rat":

"Most likely Jason was a Wharf Rat. Caroline T. would be a reference to Caroline Thomas. She is the founder of the wharf rats. She lives in Arizona now (1998). I believe I have met the gentleman in question at a few wharf rat tables at shows."

Following questions for clarification, the following information was related:

" The Wharf Rats are an organization of people that are Grateful Dead fans and are in recovery from drug and alcohol abuse. The Wharf Rats hold 12 step recovery meetings during the set break of the Grateful Dead or related show between the first and second sets of music. Caroline Thomas is the founder of the organization. This would definitely explain why only initials were used instead of full last names. His description sounds very familiar and it is totally possible that I may have met him at one time or another. The only Jason that I know that fit that description was from the Bighampton (sp?), NY area and no one seems to ever know where he is. This (the unidentified case) unfortunately could be the reason why."

My efforts to locate this Caroline Thomas were unsuccessful.

 

[Richard]

... Are we thinking the note was from someone he was with at the concert? Maybe someone who left him there? Has further investigation been done into the driver of the car and his relationship with the passenger? Were the tickets used? Did the driver have a ticket? Was the driver known to have gone to the concert? Could there have been other passengers in the car who left the scene?

The ticket stubs had been used and were for successive days of the RFK concert; June 24 and 25. It was believed by investigators that the unknown hitch hiker had attended both days of the concert and that he had bought the tickets from a scalper at the event. In his pocket with the ticket stubs were four quarters, a yellow lighter, and the note which stated; "To Jason, Sorry we had to go. See you around. Caroline O. and Caroline T."

It is not certain if his name is actually Jason, or if that was a nickname, or if the note was even to him.

The driver of the van was identified rather quickly, through his driver's license, vehicle registration, and other items. He was evidently a fan of the Grateful Dead, but had NOT attended the RFK concerts in Washington DC. He had spent the previous day with his fiance, and had left Fairfax, VA very early in the morning of 26 June 1995, headed south on I-95.

It is felt that he picked up the unknown hitch hiker on I-95 just south of Fairfax and headed south, stopping briefly at the home of his (the driver's) father, where the two young men were seen by a neighbor. Because the father was not home, the son left a note stating that he was heading further south to his mother's house, which was in Inman, South Carolina.

The van continued south on I-95 to the southernmost part of Virginia, then took the exit at Emporia, VA to head west on Highway 58. After a few miles, the van left the road and crashed into some loblolly pines. The driver and the hitch hiker were both ejected through the van's winshield and both were killed instantly from head injuries. The driver was identified and his family notified, but none in his family knew who the hitch hiker was.

His identity is still unknown after ten years.

 

[Paradise]

BabyDust2004 there is no doubt that there is a startling resemblance. The stats also match, even though he disappeared 5 years before. He'd be 1 year older and 1" taller than the estimates for John Doe.

I KNOW I researched Christopher Alan Temple before in relation to this John Doe. I don't remember why I didn't pursue it.

I was about to post this the other day but I checked the PM database on doenetwork and saw that they had already been ruled out. I really thought they had to be one in the same.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Where do you think he was from?(The note had a phone number with a 914 prefix)where do you think that # came out of? The phone book says Fallschurch/McLean area.area code 571-703 (AA - unity club house.) Fallschurch,Virginia. NA-Narcotics anonomous-NORVANA-P.O box 7113
Fallschurch,virginia.
He was coming from the concert?Maybe putting up his picture in AA club houses or showing his picture at NA meetings someone will reconise him.From washington DC past virginia?he looks young to be in AA.But AA does have young people.They don't use the carolyn T or Carolyn o too much in NA.Are these wharf rat meetings still going on?Maybe someone will know something there now.

Suzanne
P.S.Are there any newspaper articles on him?

 

[PonderingThings]

I believe he's been featured on some Grateful Dead Fan club sites.

Paradise do you know how he was ruled out? DNA? Dentals?

There is a site that someone has listed all the people who have been ruled out as possible matches to this John Doe. I know I've seen it, but now I can't find it again

I don't know if Christopher is on that list or not.

 

[marylandmissing]

Those two really do look alike.

Are we thinking the note was from someone he was with at the concert? Maybe someone who left him there? Has further investigation been done into the driver of the car and his relationship with the passenger? Were the tickets used? Did the driver have a ticket? Was the driver known to have gone to the concert? Could there have been other passengers in the car who left the scene?

A caseworker at Child Quest told me the driver of the van's mother calls there often to see if the boy has been ID'D. He was picked up hitchhiking.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
That's sad.

Suzanne

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
He was hitchhiking away from the concert?and away from Virginia?So he might not have been from virginia?Richard,Trying2id where do you think he was from?Maybe he was reported missing later after he died.When someone did not hear from him in awhile.

suzanne