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  #826  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:28 AM
HatesSociopaths HatesSociopaths is offline
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Authorities in Aruba are investigating an insurance policy taken out by Gary Giordano before his trip to Aruba as a possible motive in the disappearance of missing Maryland woman Robyn Gardner.


The investigation into the $1.5 million accidental death policy on Gardner -- which names Giordano as a beneficiary -- has been confirmed exclusively with ABC News by a police source in Aruba, as has the fact that he purchased the pricier one-year policy over the cheaper, more commonly purchased five-year policy.
http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=14321496
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:45 AM
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Well, there you go. Motive. Ugh.
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  #828  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:54 AM
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Other interesting titbits from the same source:

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=14321496


Quote:
Restaurant staff said that Gardner seemed woozy while the two ate; Giordano later told police they'd been drinking vodka at the Marriott before dining, and that she'd taken sleeping pills earlier in the day, the police source said.
Quote:
Video also shows Giordano in his rental car parked in the back of the bar and restaurant. The Toyota Rav-4 had tinted windows, so no one else in the vehicle can be identified. Giordano parked the car in the back parking lot twice; he told police that he wanted to park in the shade, the police source told ABC News.
Quote:
Authorities said that that they found blood on a rock behind the dive shop at the Rum Reef Bar & Grill, which is the last place the two were seen together.
Quote:
Three days after the search for Gardner began, Giordano got within feet of leaving the country before he was stopped at Aruba's airport, after passing through security and U.S. customs -- where he told customs he had to change flights because of weather, and inexplicably told officials that his travel companion was "taking another flight." When arrested, authorities say Giordano was drenched in sweat.
  #829  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:26 AM
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Please don't flog me for saying this, but I believe it's only a matter of time before they let GG go, and unfortunately, I don't think LE has much of a choice but to do so. It seems way too convenient that Robyn goes missing while on vacation with a man with an abusive past dating back s0 many years, covering so many different women. It's clear that MOST LIKELY a crime was committed, and MOST LIKELY he was the one who committed it.

The sad thing is, there is no EVIDENCE (that we know of) that anything criminal happened to Robyn. We can speculate until the cows come home, but if no evidence exists, we don't have enough to continually hold GG.

It is at this point, during cases such as this one, that I think it is SOOO important to reiterate the need for us, as women, to make better choices for ourselves. No one deserves to be victimized, but we have to do a better job at choosing not to put ourselves in situations in which the likelihood of a crime being committed against us is increased.

Again, NO ONE deserves to be hurt or killed because of a bad decision, but that being said, it feels like it's long been an epidemic in this country to harm women who put themselves in risky situations. LE tries as hard as it possibly can in cases like these, but if no evidence of a crime exists, their hands are tied.

I try to teach my girls that no one will be able to protect them better than they are able to protect themselves. THINK before accepting invitations, etc. to go places with men we either hardly know, or who have a seedy past. If our gut says something is wrong, LISTEN TO IT. LE can only do so much after a crime has already been committed, especially if there's no physical evidence of anything actually happening. We have to do better at protecting us against becoming another statistic.
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  #830  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by HatesSociopaths View Post

OK, I think it's all becoming more clear now. Accidental death insurance policy...sleeping pills...blood. The only question is, where did he take the body (or the then-unconscious victim, as the case may be)?
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  #831  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:40 AM
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How can he get a insurance policy on someone he isn't married too and without her permission? I hope they solve this case soon and not have it drag on like the Holloway case.
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  #832  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:50 AM
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The sad thing is, there is no EVIDENCE (that we know of) that anything criminal happened to Robyn.

Most people don't really understand the concept of "evidence". Evidence is anything that a court allows into a trial and a fact-finder considers relevant. Erratic behavior, inconsistent stories, even a nervous disposition or bags under one's eyes...all could be evidence. Along with many, many more things.

An accidental death insurance policy, taken out by the suspect in the name of the victim with the suspect as the beneficiary, is very much "evidence". Along with many more things.

All this talk about needing a "body" is also overstated. A person could certainly be convicted without a body. There are plenty of cases where remains were eventually found, but they yielded no real information on the cause of death, never mind who the perp was. Yet there was still a conviction.

All this talk about how RG should have been more careful makes me a bit nauseous. People are entitled to live their lives as they wish. Even in the worst case scenario, she was not doing anything illegal. She may have lived a bit on the edge, but many people do. They should be able to make that choice without society dismissing crimes committed against them as somehow their own fault.

Sorry...I am new around here and I don't normally get preachy. Just feeling a bit disgusted this morning, having read about some of the new developments in this case.
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  #833  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Just-a-Guy View Post
OK, I think it's all becoming more clear now. Accidental death insurance policy...sleeping pills...blood. The only question is, where did he take the body (or the then-unconscious victim, as the case may be)?
It has been said that LE were concerned about GG's version of events and the time difference. Perhaps this is all they have?

Everything else so far as been circumstantial, - The blood on the rock would have been a good piece of evidence if there was hair, brain tissue material. But we don't know. Even if it was her blood on the rock, it could be explained away as a nose bleed, or she may have fallen over because of the drink, sleeping meds. We don't know at this stage.

The insurance policy maybe explained by working for GG by doing modelling work?
Again it could be considered circumstantial or not even important.

It all points to GG but there is always the possibility that he's innocent?
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  #834  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Redgoblin View Post
It has been said that LE were concerned about GG's version of events and the time difference. Perhaps this is all they have?

Everything else so far as been circumstantial, - The blood on the rock would have been a good piece of evidence if there was hair, brain tissue material. But we don't know. Even if it was her blood on the rock, it could be explained away as a nose bleed, or she may have fallen over because of the drink, sleeping meds. We don't know at this stage.

The insurance policy maybe explained by working for GG by doing modelling work?
Again it could be considered circumstantial or not even important.

It all points to GG but there is always the possibility that he's innocent?

Of course, there is almost always the "possibility" someone is innocent.

All of those "explanations" you mention are, I suppose, possible. But they are in the nature of evidentiary rebuttals, at best. I suspect they are very close to enough for an indictment, then it would be a jury question, who they believed.

The blood, however, could be a lot more than you perhaps think. Her blood on a rock near where she was last seen acting groggy, under the circumstances, may well be the straw that broke the camel's back.
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  #835  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:01 AM
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"Authorities in Aruba will now be focusing the search for Gardner on an area away from the beach where she went missing, but within the area where she could've traveled in that 4 p.m.to 6 p.m. timeline. The FBI is sending bloodhounds, while Curacao and Aruba riot cops and volunteers will comb the area."

It appears that LE is thinking the same thing posted by many on here, focusing on an area that they could've traveled in approx 2 hours where he could've dumped the bodies. Also seems like after the initial report and search, he seems to panic and tries to leave the country and says RG was taking another flight etc...
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  #836  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Just-a-Guy View Post
Most people don't really understand the concept of "evidence". Evidence is anything that a court allows into a trial and a fact-finder considers relevant. Erratic behavior, inconsistent stories, even a nervous disposition or bags under one's eyes...all could be evidence. Along with many, many more things.

An accidental death insurance policy, taken out by the suspect in the name of the victim with the suspect as the beneficiary, is very much "evidence". Along with many more things.

All this talk about needing a "body" is also overstated. A person could certainly be convicted without a body. There are plenty of cases where remains were eventually found, but they yielded no real information on the cause of death, never mind who the perp was. Yet there was still a conviction.

All this talk about how RG should have been more careful makes me a bit nauseous. People are entitled to live their lives as they wish. Even in the worst case scenario, she was not doing anything illegal. She may have lived a bit on the edge, but many people do. They should be able to make that choice without society dismissing crimes committed against them as somehow their own fault.

Sorry...I am new around here and I don't normally get preachy. Just feeling a bit disgusted this morning, having read about some of the new developments in this case.
For the most part, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, for some reason beyond my comprehension, the notion of "evidence" has been elevated to mean that without a body there can't be a murder, and without DNA or surveillance video showing the crime as it's committed, there isn't enough to go to trial. Personally, I'd like to see "common sense" reintroduced as part of probable cause.

I just feel that until the definition regarding what does and does not constitute "evidence" is changed, a lot of people- women and children in particular- suffer the consequences due to the criminal behavior of others. Every single day that I log on to this site, there seems to be 10+ new cases that involve missing women and children. Too often, no one is charged due to a lack of "evidence". It is horrifying.
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  #837  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by CMac2 View Post
For the most part, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, for some reason beyond my comprehension, the notion of "evidence" has been elevated to mean that without a body there can't be a murder, and without DNA or surveillance video showing the crime as it's committed, there isn't enough to go to trial. Personally, I'd like to see "common sense" reintroduced as part of probable cause.

I just feel that until the definition regarding what does and does not constitute "evidence" is changed, a lot of people- women and children in particular- suffer the consequences due to the criminal behavior of others. Every single day that I log on to this site, there seems to be 10+ new cases that involve missing women and children. Too often, no one is charged due to a lack of "evidence". It is horrifying.
It can work both ways.

If GG behaviour has led LE to believe he is suspicious, it is their job to determine if there is enough evidence, behaviour or otherwise to convict him. You don't have to have a body but you do have to have evidence. Otherwise going to court is a waste of time and of course nobody wants to see an innocent go to jail.
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  #838  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:40 AM
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In light of the life insurance policy, I will have to alter my original opinion that there was no reason for GVG to harm Robyn.
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  #839  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:42 AM
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Have they confirmed the insurance policy and that it was Robyn's blood? The way I am reading it, it's they are investigating a policy. Do they have the actual policy?

I can't help but recall that they accused Dave and Beth and Max DeVries family of being involved in an insurance scam, and that Dave had a huge insurance policy on Natalee, which was completely false.

But I do have to keep reminding myself that there are new people in charge in Aruba then there was in '05.

If its true this time then it is a huge piece of circumstantial evidence that points towards a motive, why would he list himself as a beneficiary of that large a policy for a friend. If she had taken out the policy, she wouldn't have listed him as the beneficiary. I do recall reading that there was a policy but it was a trip policy with her mother as beneficiary, but that might have come from his lawyer so probably should be taken with a grain of salt as words from a defense attorney.

His story that she had taken sleeping pills and then drank vodka and then went snorkelling?!? Who would take someone they were with snorkelling in that condition?!? And who takes sleeping pills early in the day, knowing they would be going out for the day?!?


JMHO

Last edited by annalia; 08-17-2011 at 10:01 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Just-a-Guy View Post
Most people don't really understand the concept of "evidence". Evidence is anything that a court allows into a trial and a fact-finder considers relevant. Erratic behavior, inconsistent stories, even a nervous disposition or bags under one's eyes...all could be evidence. Along with many, many more things.

An accidental death insurance policy, taken out by the suspect in the name of the victim with the suspect as the beneficiary, is very much "evidence". Along with many more things.

All this talk about needing a "body" is also overstated. A person could certainly be convicted without a body. There are plenty of cases where remains were eventually found, but they yielded no real information on the cause of death, never mind who the perp was. Yet there was still a conviction.

All this talk about how RG should have been more careful makes me a bit nauseous. People are entitled to live their lives as they wish. Even in the worst case scenario, she was not doing anything illegal. She may have lived a bit on the edge, but many people do. They should be able to make that choice without society dismissing crimes committed against them as somehow their own fault.

Sorry...I am new around here and I don't normally get preachy. Just feeling a bit disgusted this morning, having read about some of the new developments in this case.

My bolding

Couldn't agree more. There hasn't been any evidence shown that she was even living on the edge, just assumptions and lots of speculation because of Giordano's past history, and that she met him on match.com.

JMHO
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  #841  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Just-a-Guy View Post
Most people don't really understand the concept of "evidence". Evidence is anything that a court allows into a trial and a fact-finder considers relevant. Erratic behavior, inconsistent stories, even a nervous disposition or bags under one's eyes...all could be evidence. Along with many, many more things.

An accidental death insurance policy, taken out by the suspect in the name of the victim with the suspect as the beneficiary, is very much "evidence". Along with many more things.

All this talk about needing a "body" is also overstated. A person could certainly be convicted without a body. There are plenty of cases where remains were eventually found, but they yielded no real information on the cause of death, never mind who the perp was. Yet there was still a conviction.

All this talk about how RG should have been more careful makes me a bit nauseous. People are entitled to live their lives as they wish. Even in the worst case scenario, she was not doing anything illegal. She may have lived a bit on the edge, but many people do. They should be able to make that choice without society dismissing crimes committed against them as somehow their own fault.

Sorry...I am new around here and I don't normally get preachy. Just feeling a bit disgusted this morning, having read about some of the new developments in this case.

I agree, BUT, on the flip side, to paint her as an American Beauty full of innocence and purity makes me nauseous too. I think the media (in particular, NG) has completely made her appear to be someone she is not. I don't know why this is the way our media operates, but I wish it wasn't so.

Obviously, no matter what she was into or whether her judgement may have been questionable, she did not deserve to go missing/be murdered.
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  #842  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:56 AM
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It is very, very important for Aruban Police and authorities to make sure this case is solved, and every detail is handled correctly. Probably why they called the FBI in so quickly. They need to make sure this case is handled perfectly. And despite how it appeared with Holloway, the vast majority of Arubans are very good, decent, and nice people...including the police. A lot occurred with Joran and his father that many people don't know about, and made the Aruban Police look like idiots. Not to imply that I am a big shot on the island or anything, but talking with many people over the years in Aruba, you begin to hear things that make sense and add up. Although gossip in Aruba is similar to a high school locker room, nevertheless, people on the island know what went down with Joran and his father

Anyway, best guess, is that he drove RG from Baby Beach up past the Colorado Lighthouse along the coast, but not quite up to Natural Pool/bridge area, probably a mile or two south of there and disposed of her along the cliffs and coast.

Last edited by NJGuy; 08-17-2011 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Addition
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  #843  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:04 AM
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It is very, very important for Aruban Police and authorities to make sure this case is solved, and every detail is handled correctly. Probably why they called the FBI in so quickly. They need to make sure this case is handled perfectly. And despite how it appeared with Holloway, the vast majority of Arubans are very good, decent, and nice people...including the police. A lot occurred with Joran and his father that many people don't know about, and made the Aruban Police look like idiots.

Anyway, best guess, is that he drove RG from Baby Beach up past the Colorado Lighthouse along the coast, but not quite up to Natural Pool/bridge area, probably a mile or two south of there and disposed of her along the cliffs and coast.
I have many Aruban friends and , yes, they are good and decent people
I think the police are doing everything by the book, their book is a bit different than ours
I won't comment on joran and Paul other than to say i met Paul and Anita and found them to be polite and warm people MOO


And I do agree that they probably did not go to the Natural Bridge area
I am not sure where they went
The time between her being seen and GG knocking on the shutters shortens the length of time he had to work with
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  #844  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:13 AM
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It is very, very important for Aruban Police and authorities to make sure this case is solved, and every detail is handled correctly. Probably why they called the FBI in so quickly. They need to make sure this case is handled perfectly. And despite how it appeared with Holloway, the vast majority of Arubans are very good, decent, and nice people...including the police. A lot occurred with Joran and his father that many people don't know about, and made the Aruban Police look like idiots. Not to imply that I am a big shot on the island or anything, but talking with many people over the years in Aruba, you begin to hear things that make sense and add up. Although gossip in Aruba is similar to a high school locker room, nevertheless, people on the island know what went down with Joran and his fatherAnyway, best guess, is that he drove RG from Baby Beach up past the Colorado Lighthouse along the coast, but not quite up to Natural Pool/bridge area, probably a mile or two south of there and disposed of her along the cliffs and coast.
My bolding

This is probably not the right forum for this and may be getting too far off topic, but I am very interested in the bolded.
I want to be clear though, speaking about police in Aruba is not speaking about its people, just as speaking about police in the US isn't speaking about US citizens, I don't know why it is seen as being one and the same when it come to Aruba.
I have a good friend who is a regular traveler to Aruba who has said the same things you have said about Joran.
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  #845  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:25 AM
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So.. The large insurance policy makes it all look premeditated
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  #846  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:26 AM
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I have many Aruban friends and , yes, they are good and decent people
I think the police are doing everything by the book, their book is a bit different than ours
I won't comment on joran and Paul other than to say i met Paul and Anita and found them to be polite and warm people MOO


And I do agree that they probably did not go to the Natural Bridge area
I am not sure where they went
The time between her being seen and GG knocking on the shutters shortens the length of time he had to work with
I agree, the length of time, I think lends itself to somewhere on the coastal side of the island, not far enough north to the bridge (too many tourists and activity anyway), so I'm obviously just guessing, but somewhere not that far north of the colorado lighthouse
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:27 AM
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My bolding

This is probably not the right forum for this and may be getting too far off topic, but I am very interested in the bolded.
I want to be clear though, speaking about police in Aruba is not speaking about its people, just as speaking about police in the US isn't speaking about US citizens, I don't know why it is seen as being one and the same when it come to Aruba.
I have a good friend who is a regular traveler to Aruba who has said the same things you have said about Joran.
I agree, this is not the right forum and time to discuss Joran/Aruba etc...but I would be happy to discuss it at another time or on another forum topic page/forum
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  #848  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:31 AM
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I am floored. Why do people think they can get away with this? Can he be more obvious?

I am so sorry Robyn, you did not deserve this sweetie.
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  #849  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:41 AM
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I am late on this case does anyone know why Robyn went on this trip with this man if she had a boyfriend, why would she go on vacation with another man? How long did she know him from match.com?

He was NOT attractive so what made her go with him? I question this, because could this be a set up that she is a part of?

She knew about the policy, they took their chances with police not being able to accuse him of anything? Will he get the money if she is just missing?

Just curious as to what would prompt this woman to go on vacation with this old man who wears toupes that she met on match, meanwhile she has a boyfriend and they go to an island that is notorious for fudging a huge investigation of a missing woman, same resort too - same area.

TIA
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:44 AM
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Updated News Release about the Insurance Policy

http://www.wbal.com/absolutenm/templ...78602&zoneid=2
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