George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[iluvmua]

I can't wait for the prosecution to get in the evidence that GZ was taking MMA classes at his specialty gym for the year and a half leading up to killing TM. The defense has used MMA language to describe TM's actions. Yet, in the opening remarks, we were told GZ actually is the one who has studied at an MMA gym.

Why would the prosecution talk about GZ's MMA style fighting if he used his gun to kill Trayvon and not his hands, feet, head etc.

does not make any sense.

 

[ElleElle]

Lack of dna under Trayvon's fingernails tends to show that he wasn't defending himself. Absence of dna elsewhere on his hands (assuming they were tested, which I don't think they were) was proven by this witness to be meaningless. "touch" dna doesn't always happen.

BBM~ TM was attacking him and it happened so quick, but still, the story leading up to the shooting is puzzling.

 

[nnglas]

Listen to me - GZ called the police when he noticed something out of the ordinary. GZ had true concern for his community. I believe that TM did in fact, circle around and catch GZ at his truck and punched his azz out and pummeled him to near death

{Mod Snip}... What was so out of the ordinary? A black male walking alone at night? There are a lot of NEN calls about "suspicious" characters that he described as black. Is that all it takes to be "suspicious"? I've been hearing how the previous robberies were all by black males, so that is GZ's experience. But should a child have to die because of GZ'S experience?

I know, I know, his head was being beaten into the pavement. But we only have GZ's word for that. But even if TM was beating him up, it doesn't tell us who was the aggressor. We don't know who started the confrontation, however we do know that GZ said he was following TM. In my day, when people got into a fight and then lost, we called it "your behind writing a check your *advertiser censored** can't cash".

Even with all that, I don't think he will be convicted. He probably was scared for his life, however, that doesn't me he didn't start the fight and figure out he maybe bit off more then he could chew.

 

[kaRN]

GZ claimed he had a hold of his head and was smashing his head into the side walk - GZ had no hair, how could he do that w/ out any dna in his hands or under his nails? and imo it would be under his nail by holding the scalp like that

He also told LE TM covered his mouth to he couldn't scream and yet none of the screams were muffled. Maybe he forgot what really happened due to his 'bad memory' he also reported to LE.

 

[polleypockets]

Quit making stuff up, please. Yes, it is possible to throw a person's head into the cement.

i am not making things up, it was posted earlier that is what GZ said in his statement - go listen to all the statememts posted above - i said it is my opinion that he would get dna on his hands and nails!~ - why are you being so snarky, all day every one was able to discuss w/ out people being snarky or throwing accusations at others

 

[AngelWings444]

Yes, and it had been raining so I would think a small amount of blood would be hard to see on wet concrete---assuming it hadn't been washed away.

It was "drizzling", not raining. IF GZ had a broken nose and massive head wounds, he would have bled enough for LE to see and document. His injuries were minor..if even that. He certainly wasn't pummeled or in the fight of his life. His clothes would have showed blood evidence, the surrounding area would have been covered in blood. I have boys who have had head wounds and they bleed like crazy! GZ did not have major injuries..period. And..NO broken nose.

Let's not forget the bullet wound was STRAIGHT ON, not at an angle. This fact can't be ignored. Close range and straight on. Nobody can ignore that evidence.

 

[Chris_Texas]

With all due respect, did you watch the trial today? The crime scene photographer (the state's witness, FWIW) confirmed GZ's injuries. The lumps and abrasions from having his head hit the sidewalk were clearly evident in the photos she had taken.

Further the defense asked if luminol (or similar substance) was used to detect blood. The answer was no. LE used only flashlights, in the rain on a dark night, to search for blood evidence.

Perhaps I was not clear. There is no question he had a head injury. The question is how did he really get it and how serious was it.

We don't know HOW he got it, but it seems safe (for the reasons I have listed, and others as well) to say that he did not get it in the way Zimmerman described.

 

[Bee Happy]

I just watched the posted video of him retelling his story to the police.
He says Trayvon circled his truck and he told the officer on the phone this.
Does anyone recall him mentioning that TM circled his truck?
The walkthrough was very strange. I understand he may have been nervous, but he seemed very unsure of what he wanted to say.

I am truly one of those on the fence about this story.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

Why would the prosecution talk about GZ's MMA style fighting if he used his gun to kill Trayvon and not his hands, feet, head etc.

does not make any sense.

I believe it was TM using the fighting mode style over GM...Witness said that Travon used gangsta style fighting mode while he pummeled GM

 

[iluvmua]

imo, i do not think GM was "out hunting" trying to kill some one either, i think he wanted to be the hero so bad, and thought he could play super cop, made every bad decision in the world - i also do not think he was attacked by trayvon either - imo he was following, TM turned around and said "why are you following me" GZ did not respond saying who he was or what he was doing there - which would have stopped all of this, (the statements are in his police statement) i can't remember what GZ said but it wasn't good -

but i do think in imo that GZ was profiling trying to be a hero, disregarded police instructions, and but for the fact he chased after a 17 year old boy armed w/ a weapon, TM would be alive today - which imo is manslaughter

The State is saying GZ wanted to shoot TM. There has been no evidence so far to come to that.

which has me scratching my head as to why they did not just go with manslaughter. This is def. not a 2nd degree case.

 

[iluvmua]

I believe it was TM using the fighting mode style over GM...Witness said that Travon used gangsta style fighting mode while he pummeled GM

yep, this is true

 

[Just K]

Why would the prosecution talk about GZ's MMA style fighting if he used his gun to kill Trayvon and not his hands, feet, head etc.

does not make any sense.

It's in the prosecutions opening statement. My guess is they will ask why GZ didn't use his MMA skills if he was attacked like he says he was.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Show me. Show me the evidence.

Compare Zimmerman's accounts during Zimmerman's various interviews and the walk through. And for added points, compare these with the 911 call.

 

[ElleElle]

Which is why I don't want to run ahead and tell you all the juicy stuff.

All I'm going to say is all of the evidence is online and in the GZ documents.

just in case you wanted to look for yourself.

this case has been very once sided from the beginning.

:seeya: Thanks! I just like to see the facts and start from the beginning. :rocker:

 

[polleypockets]

I believe it was TM using the fighting mode style over GM...Witness said that Travon used gangsta style fighting mode while he pummeled GM

the witness :john" recanted and said he could not tell who was screaming and could not tell if any one was even being punched 3 weeks later at the prosecutors office

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent

 

[ncgramma]

Exactly. He was screaming for help, asked witness JG to call the police, and TM chose to continue beating him. TM could have also chosen to scream for police, but he didnt. At that point, what would you do if you were GZ? Continue getting beaten into the pavement and risk brain damage? Or resort to any means necessary to save your own life?

I am a long term websleuths reader (but infrequent poster) who lives near where this happened and works with witness JG and his wife. This whole case hits really close to home and I am terrified of riots in our town. Sigh. I can't wait to read back through the threads from today and yesterday and see what all you intelligent sleuths have to say.

Found a recording of a 911 call that has a lot of the calls for help in the background: http://lawofselfdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/WItness-11-911-call-to-gun-shot.mp3

 

[iluvmua]

Perhaps I was not clear. There is no question he had a head injury. The question is how did he really get it and how serious was it.

We don't know HOW he got it, but it seems safe (for the reasons I have listed, and others as well) to say that he did not get it in the way Zimmerman described.

So did he just slip and hit his head and repeatedly punch himself over and over until his nose broke? or perhaps the gun recoiled and hit him in the face hence his broken nose?

He clearly got those injuries by Trayvon and Trayvon alone.

Why would someone call the NEN give out his location, where he lives, his name and them have the time to injure himself without anybody seeing him and then come up with a story about being attacked?

 

[AngelWings444]

Why would the prosecution talk about GZ's MMA style fighting if he used his gun to kill Trayvon and not his hands, feet, head etc.

does not make any sense.

GZ had almost TWO years of MMA style fighting training. IT MATTERS! Why would he use a gun instead of trying to defend himself IF he was assaulted...he was fully trained at combat. He CHOSE to follow, stalk, profile a child, and killed him! GZ had choices, Travyon didn't! It shows that GZ isn't the fat, out of shape person he is today, he was in very good shaper, boxer shape that day! He was looking to be the hero in the neighborhood, trying to find the bad guy. Unfortunately, he killed a good guy, teenager, who was doing NOTHING other than walking home from 7-11 with an Ice-Tea and skittles.

 

[Karmady]

BBM~ TM was attacking him and it happened so quick, but still, the story leading up to the shooting is puzzling.

Honestly, I don't find it puzzling at all. There's a dude you've never seen loitering in your 'hood in the dark and rain. Should you call the cops? You know that bad chit has happened before from criminals in your neighborhood, including the burglars who terrorized your neighbor and her baby and including the dude reported by the stucco contractors. You call. Will they be there in time, or will there be another mother/baby/family at risk. Do you try to figure out where this person is. Imo, yes, absolutely. It's the right thing to do if you don't want your neighbors to be victims.

 

[polleypockets]

The State is saying GZ wanted to shoot TM. There has been no evidence so far to come to that.

which has me scratching my head as to why they did not just go with manslaughter. This is def. not a 2nd degree case.

yeah, i can't go there either w/ out a lot more evidence