NC NC - Terry, 11, & Alan Westerfield, 6, Fayetteville, 12 Sept 1964

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Satch said:
The frustrating thing is if Brock killed Terry and Alan, how he did it, and with no evidence? You think that there would be blood on his car, clothes, something forensic. The time of when the double-feature started, and accounts of Brock, pulling out of the driveway AFTER the first show began, doesn't add up to truth. It also makes no sense that Brook went inside the theater that is if he or the boys even went to the theater that day. Nothing in the time-frame matches his alibi.

Who saw one of the boys riding his bike? Why was the babysitter asked to leave by Brook? It is possible that when Brock told the neighbor boy that Terry was being punished, he may have already been dead, but how? (The reports that I have seen say Terry was being punished.)

What was the full name of the NCO club? Was was Margie gone for such a long time? Where did she work? Where did Brook work?

Satch
Click to expand...

The frustrating thing is if Brock killed Terry and Alan, how he did it, and with no evidence? You think that there would be blood on his car, clothes, something forensic.
There wouldn't be substantial evidence in suffocation or maybe even a drowning death (without the bodies as evidence of course). In the latest article it mentions that Bock went to Fort Bragg right after he left the theatre at 9:30 and before he went back to go wait for Margie to get home. So that gave him 9:30pm-1am to get rid of the bodies if he didn't already. My thoughts are that the reason he didn't go into the theatre to ask for the boys, for one they likely were never there, another is that this is when he possibly had the boys in the vehicle. Nobody knew the boys were missing yet so being caught was low as no one would suspect anything yet. Asking for the boys at the theatre would look good for his 'story', but yet he didn't. So this is why I think he didn't want it known they were missing yet... If he still hadn't yet gotten rid of the evidence.

Who saw one of the boys riding his bike?
I can't find the original article, but from what I remember is that it was possibly a neighbor.

Why was the babysitter asked to leave by Bock?
To me this is the most incriminating evidence... I don't know how this hasn't surfaced until this recent article. Past articles stated he had spent the day at the boy's house making it seem like he was just a step-father who wanted to spend time with his step-son's, and that the mother was aware of this. This left out detail really turns the tables and I don't see how police didn't find it overly suspicious. I mean, we have a mother's past relationship (once married but separated) randomly show up at her house without her knowledge where he dismisses the babysitter she hired to spend time alone with her children that aren't his and for the most part he never established any relationship with them! He didn't even call them by name! Just 'them boys'. I wonder how he explained his actions to the authorites. Another detail is shortly after the babysitter left no one saw the boys again. I want to know more about the babysitter and what Bock said to her to get her to leave.

What was the full name of the NCO club?
It is located at the Pope Air Force Base on Reilly rd. It's a military club. NCO stands for non-commissioned officers from what I could find. There is also one in Fort Bragg on Gruber rd where Bock was stationed.

Why was Margie gone for such a long time?
The article mentions that Margie and Bock's relationship was short lived as she started going to the NCO club more frequently. I don't know much about these NCO clubs but it seems like a socializing place for people in the military. My grandmother told me she met a boyfriend and later a future husband at a military type club. She told me they would dance and socialize there. I will further ask her.

Where did she work? Where did Bock work?
Margie was a beautician at a hair salon and Bock was a military police officer. I don't know if he was retired or still working as one at the time of the boys disappearance.


Source:Two Fayetteville boys went to a movie in 1964. They were never seen again
 
Satch said:
The frustrating thing is if Brock killed Terry and Alan, how he did it, and with no evidence? You think that there would be blood on his car, clothes, something forensic. The time of when the double-feature started, and accounts of Brock, pulling out of the driveway AFTER the first show began, doesn't add up to truth. It also makes no sense that Brook went inside the theater that is if he or the boys even went to the theater that day. Nothing in the time-frame matches his alibi.

Who saw one of the boys riding his bike? Why was the babysitter asked to leave by Brook? It is possible that when Brock told the neighbor boy that Terry was being punished, he may have already been dead, but how? (The reports that I have seen say Terry was being punished.)

What was the full name of the NCO club? Was was Margie gone for such a long time? Where did she work? Where did Brook work?

Satch
Click to expand...
I doubt there would have been any blood. I think this was pre-planned, and I think he probably killed the boys using manual strangulation. There was no reason for him to be at the house that day unless the murder of the boys was planned, and if he planned the crime, then he probably had a burial site picked out as well. In fact, it is likely that he dug their graves in advance and simply had to drive their bodies to the grave site and fill in the holes. If this crime occurred today, I believe he'd be prosecuted for the double murder even without the bodies, but in 1974, a no-body murder trial would have been virtually unheard of.
 
Terry Lee Westerfield
  • terry_lee_westerfield_1.jpg
  • terry_lee_westerfield_2.jpg
  • terry_lee_westerfield_3.jpg
Terry, circa 1964

  • Missing Since 09/12/1964
  • Missing From Fayetteville, North Carolina
  • Sex Male
  • Race White
  • Date of Birth 02/07/1953 (67)
  • Age 11 years old
  • Height and Weight 4'7, 89 pounds
  • Distinguishing Characteristics Caucasian male. Red hair, blue eyes. Terry has freckles on his face and an appendectomy scar on his abdomen. He is missing one permanent tooth in his lower jaw.
  • ------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan John Westerfield
  • alan_john_westerfield_1.jpg
  • alan_john_westerfield_2.jpg
Alan, circa 1964

  • Missing Since 09/12/1964
  • Missing From Fayetteville, North Carolina
  • Classification Endangered Missing
  • Sex Male
  • Race White
  • Date of Birth 08/24/1957 (62)
  • Age 7 years old
  • Height and Weight 3'10, 80 pounds
  • Distinguishing Characteristics Caucasian male. Sandy brown hair, blue eyes.

Details of Disappearance

Terry and Alan Westerfield's stepfather dropped both boys off at the Broadway Theater on Hay Street in Fayetteville, North Carolina on September 12, 1964. The two brothers were never seen again and it is unclear if they actually walked into the theater.

Police questioned the boys' stepfather, Carl Bock, who said he dropped Terry and Alan off at the theater at 5:30 p.m. When he went to pick them up at 8:00 p.m., he said, they had disappeared. Some employees at the theater remember seeing the Westerfield children that evening, but other theater workers do not. They were regular customers and could be easily recognized.

Bock was separated from the children's mother at the time Terry and Alan vanished. He was an Army sergeant who worked in the Criminal Investigations Division at Fort Bragg in 1964, and was shipped overseas a year after his stepsons disappeared.

Investigators believe Bock was in some way involved in the Westerfield children's disappearances. They think the boys were both killed a short time after being abducted. No one has ever been charged in the cases, however.

Terry and Alan's biological father was interviewed and ruled out as a suspect. Bock has since divorced from Alan and Terry's mother and now lives in Wisconsin; he was last interviewed by police in Virginia in 2000. The Westerfield brothers' cases remain unsolved.

Investigating Agency
  • Cumberland County Sheriff's Office 910-323-1500
Source Information
 
Probably is him. The funeral home address is:
Sonnenburg Family Funeral Home
801 East Monowau Street
Tomah, Wisconsin 54660

The case summaries indicate that Bock was living in Wisconsin. No mention in the obituary of his wife, former wife, or the missing boys. He was evidently a career Army man.

Here is his gravesite listing in the Veterans Affairs website. This indicates that his grave is marked with a VA headstone.

BOCK, KARL MAX
PSG US ARMY
WORLD WAR II, KOREA, VIETNAM
DATE OF BIRTH: 10/14/1922
DATE OF DEATH: 05/09/2016
BURIED AT:
TOMAH CEMETERY
TOMAH, WI 54660
 
Richard said:
Probably is him. The funeral home address is:
Sonnenburg Family Funeral Home
801 East Monowau Street
Tomah, Wisconsin 54660

The case summaries indicate that Bock was living in Wisconsin. No mention in the obituary of his wife, former wife, or the missing boys. He was evidently a career Army man.

Here is his gravesite listing in the Veterans Affairs website. This indicates that his grave is marked with a VA headstone.

BOCK, KARL MAX
PSG US ARMY
WORLD WAR II, KOREA, VIETNAM
DATE OF BIRTH: 10/14/1922
DATE OF DEATH: 05/09/2016
BURIED AT:
TOMAH CEMETERY
TOMAH, WI 54660
Click to expand...

Off of the presumption that it is him, I will refer to "Karl "as spelled with a "K" from this point forward when referencing this case. Too coincidental for it to be someone else. Was their any known pattern of domestic abuse with Karl and family members before Terry and Alan vanished? That would be the smoking gun here. Unfortunately, many military men do have histories of violence and personality disorders. Were divorce proceedings finalized? Or was this just a separation? I would love to know more about Karl's behavior from Terry and Alan's mother or their biological father. Is their Mother or biological father still alive? If Karl had "Boot Camp" expectations in dealing with people, you could have strong enough circumstantial evidence that he was involved. Probably more evidence would be needed for a conviction in a criminal trial, but skilled attorneys for both sides could sway a case like this one way or the other.

I agree that based on what is known, It would be VERY EASY for Karl to get rid of any physical evidence. Plus, as stated above, very, very unlikely that there would be a conviction in a 1964 trial without a body.

Satch
 
Satch said:
Off of the presumption that it is him, I will refer to "Karl "as spelled with a "K" from this point forward when referencing this case. Too coincidental for it to be someone else. Was their any known pattern of domestic abuse with Karl and family members before Terry and Alan vanished? That would be the smoking gun here. Unfortunately, many military men do have histories of violence and personality disorders. Were divorce proceedings finalized? Or was this just a separation? I would love to know more about Karl's behavior from Terry and Alan's mother or their biological father. Is their Mother or biological father still alive? If Karl had "Boot Camp" expectations in dealing with people, you could have strong enough circumstantial evidence that he was involved. Probably more evidence would be needed for a conviction in a criminal trial, but skilled attorneys for both sides could sway a case like this one way or the other.

I agree that based on what is known, It would be VERY EASY for Karl to get rid of any physical evidence. Plus, as stated above, very, very unlikely that there would be a conviction in a 1964 trial without a body.

Satch
Click to expand...

To continue this thought,

On the basis of what I have read on this case, I don't think there is any evidence that Karl went to the theater. This was just the story that he told investigators, and probably repeated to police in later questioning. Did anyone see Karl or his car at the theater? I believe that this was a late afternoon show like 4PM? I can't see someone waiting til, what was it, 8:30PM? Karl may have gone to the theater for an alibi, but it falls apart, because I can't see him waiting there for that length of time. A two hour stretch max, and that would be pushing it. BUT, A LONG ENOUGH TIME FRAME IF KARL IS GUILTY TO DISPOSE OF THE BOY'S BODIES.

If Karl did this, yes manual strangulation would be possible, Drugging the kids? (sleeping pills in their drink?) Get them into a body of water tied and anchored so that no one will ever know. If this indeed happened. Strange that some theater personnel say that they saw Terry and Alan that day, but others did not. The strange part is that the brothers attended the theater very regularly, so it seems that they would be recognized by all of theater management, or most all of them, if they were there that day or not.

Than again if Karl did this, was it out of hate for the boys? A personality disorder that triggered rage in him that day? Reports that one of the boys was being punished earlier in the day. Need to know what he did and the details of that. OR, was it not for hate of the boys, but Karl demanding that neither biological parent gets custody, for hate of either or both of Terry and Alan's biological parents? The classic, "If I can't have the kids, nobody can?" We need more information about Karl's behavior and personality, leading up to the events of that day. I wonder what movie the kids saw? Or intended to see?

Satch
 
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Satch said:
To continue this thought,

On the basis of what I have read on this case, I don't think there is any evidence that Karl went to the theater. This was just the story that he told investigators, and probably repeated to police in later questioning. Did anyone see Karl or his car at the theater? I believe that this was a late afternoon show like 4PM? I can't see someone waiting til, what was it, 8:30PM? Karl may have gone to the thereat for an alibi, but it falls apart, because I can't see him waiting there for that length of time. A two hour stretch max, and that would be pushing it. BUT, A LONG ENOUGH TIME FRAME IF KARL IS GUILTY TO DISPOSE OF THE BOY'S BODIES.

If Karl did this, yes manual strangulation would be possible, Drugging the kids? (sleeping pills in their drink?) Get them into a body of water tied and anchored so that no one will ever know. If this indeed happened. Strange that some theater personnel say that they saw Terry and Alan that day, but others did not. The strange part is that the brothers attended the theater very regularly, so it seems that they would be recognized by all of theater management, or most all of them, if they were there that day or not.

Than again if Karl did this, was it out of hate for the boys? A personality disorder that triggered rage in him that day? Reports that one of the boys was being punished earlier in the day. Need to know what he did and the details of that. OR, was it not for hate of the boys, but Karl demanding that neither biological parent gets custody, for hate of either or both of Terry and Alan's biological parents. The classic, "If I can't have the kids, nobody can?" We need more information about Karl's behavior and personality, leading up to the events of that day. I wonder what movie the kids saw? Or intended to see?

Satch
Click to expand...
I agree; we need to find out whether he had a violent temper. He may have lost his temper and killed one of the boys and then killed the other one to get rid of the witness, or it might have been premeditated. I don't think anybody still believes that he dropped the boys off at the theater, so it's very irritating that many sources still repeat that obvious lie as fact.
 
After reading through this thread I had a few thoughts:

CID agent or MP?
It was mentioned on page one of this thread that Karl was a CID agent. This is not just your run of the mill MP. If this guy was CID he would know how to cover up the boys' murder. CID agents are detectives within the army and investigate felony crimes. Here's a down and dirty description of what they do (from the army's recruiting page) : Army Criminal Investigations Special Agent (31D).
They investigate a looooot of child sexual abuse cases committed by soldiers. My neighbor at Ft Drum was investigated by them when it was suspected he was molesting his daughters (he was). I say all of this to say they don't do traffic infractions, shoplifting from the PX, domestic disturbance, DV (MPs get called first, then usually 1 CID agent would come out). Only the big stuff. Murder, sexual assault, grand theft, etc.

Someone asked if he would have been forced to take a polygraph. If he was in an initial background investigation, then that would be plausible. I don't think they would've had him do that in connection with the boys' disappearance. As a soldier, you don't have as many rights as a civilian if you're being investigated, but something in my gut tells me the civilian investigators didn't think it could be him because he was seen as some 'upstanding CID agent' and military investigators wouldn't want to out one of their own.

HOWEVER, in his obit it just states that he was an MP. Could this have just been an oversight by whoever wrote the obit, maybe. But it goes into more than just cursory detail about his time in the Rakkasans. Maybe he didn't talk about his time as a CID agent and portrayed himself as just a simpleton MP so that he didn't look so suspect.

Can we try digging around more for his military records?

Two car household?
It was mentioned he left the house in his car. Was he sharing the home with his soon to be ex? I feel like in 1964 it wouldn't be common for a family to have 2 cars. Was mom at work? Did she drive her own car there or did he drop her off? This is important because he said he thought she had picked the boys up, implying she had her own car. But did she? Maybe I'm reading too much into this but I really want to know.

What movie was playing?
Maybe my millenial is showing, but were movie showings and times listed in the newspaper back then? It might be worth it to look into the Fayetteville Observer newspaper issue for that day. Was there really a double feature at that time? I don't think this would lead to the location of the boys, but it would be interesting to see if Karl was telling the truth about the double feature thing.
 
aThousandYearsWide said:
...

What was the full name of the NCO club?
It is located at the Pope Air Force Base on Reilly rd. It's a military club. NCO stands for non-commissioned officers from what I could find. There is also one in Fort Bragg on Gruber rd where Bock was stationed.

...
Click to expand...

You're right, NCO is Non Commissioned Officers. It's basically an enlisted club, the counterpart to the Officers' Club (or O Club). FWIW I don't think he'd be at the one on Pope. Pope is much smaller than Bragg, and even though they're a joint base now, the Army side is larger. Plus he was in the Army, so one would think he'd hang at that one. Looking at a map, Pope is north of Bragg, and Bragg is north of Fayetteville. I think he'd frequent the Bragg one more often.
 
alexwood said:
Obituary for Karl M Bock at Sonnenburg Family Funeral Home

I was concerned that the spelling "Karl" (rather than "Carl") would rule him out; I read one of the articles upthread that spelled his first name as "Karl". The Fayetteville boys who vanished 54 years ago

This is probably him. Dead now.
Click to expand...
Look at the guestbook entries. No wife or children are mentioned in his obit, but based on the entries, he had a number of step kids that still viewed him as a fatherly figure.
 
KelseyDana said:
What movie was playing?
Maybe my millenial is showing, but were movie showings and times listed in the newspaper back then? It might be worth it to look into the Fayetteville Observer newspaper issue for that day. Was there really a double feature at that time? I don't think this would lead to the location of the boys, but it would be interesting to see if Karl was telling the truth about the double feature thing.
Click to expand...
Maybe you're too young to remember double features. In the late 70's when I was growing up, double features were pervasive. I'm fairly certain that a double feature would have been the norm in 1964. After the cartoon, there would have been one main attraction followed by a B-movie or second-run movie.
So I don't doubt Karl's claim about the double feature, but I don't see that claim as relevant. I'm still 100% convinced that he murdered the boys. I'm certain that they were both already dead when the neighbor kid came looking for them.
 
Ozoner said:
Maybe you're too young to remember double features. In the late 70's when I was growing up, double features were pervasive. I'm fairly certain that a double feature would have been the norm in 1964. After the cartoon, there would have been one main attraction followed by a B-movie or second-run movie.
So I don't doubt Karl's claim about the double feature, but I don't see that claim as relevant. I'm still 100% convinced that he murdered the boys. I'm certain that they were both already dead when the neighbor kid came looking for them.
Click to expand...
Oh I agree with you, but I'd be interested to see if there was a double feature at that time where both were kid movies. If there was, it doesn't rule any suspicions out. But if there wasn't... well that would make the stepdad look even worse.
 
Satch said:
I wonder what movie the kids saw? Or intended to see?

Satch
Click to expand...
KelseyDana said:
What movie was playing?
Maybe my millenial is showing, but were movie showings and times listed in the newspaper back then? It might be worth it to look into the Fayetteville Observer newspaper issue for that day. Was there really a double feature at that time? I don't think this would lead to the location of the boys, but it would be interesting to see if Karl was telling the truth about the double feature thing.
Click to expand...
This article mentions what movies.

"Bock would later tell investigators that he took the boys to the movies about 4 p.m. “No Name on The Bullet,″ a Western starring Audie Murphy, was playing at the Broadway, along with “The Atomic Man,″ a science fiction film."

Two Fayetteville boys went to a movie in 1964. They were never seen again
 
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