NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #18

[webrocket]

KTNV.com is reporting that it's now believed likely that the remains belong to a tourist, rather than a valley resident.

"In addition to the skeletal remains, clothing and hiking gear were found."

(If it's a male, I'd think that a wallet would have been located, also.)

to our knowledge Steven did not have hiking gear with him when he walked away from his car so it is not likely him.

 

[laytonian]

to our knowledge Steven did not have hiking gear with him when he walked away from his car so it is not likely him.

Very true.

Of course, we can always speculate up a scenario:
Steven went to LV to meet up with someone, and they'd go hiking together. They hike, he falls, and the other person doesn't want to take responsibility so doesn't report the accident.

No, I don't believe that's what happened....

ETA:
Another news report (from The Las Vegas Sun) says that the remains were on a ledge, and likely had been there "for years".

 

[Fairy1]

Very true.

Of course, we can always speculate up a scenario:
Steven went to LV to meet up with someone, and they'd go hiking together. They hike, he falls, and the other person doesn't want to take responsibility so doesn't report the accident.

No, I don't believe that's what happened....

ETA:
Another news report (from The Las Vegas Sun) says that the remains were on a ledge, and likely had been there "for years".

Thank you!

I just read about an identified "UID" earlier today where LE said the remains were likely there for decades, but the guy had last been seen in May or June.

That being said, I don't believe this is Steven, either.

 

[carbuff]

I hope that in my discussions about religion and suicide, I am not giving the impression that I believe religious people don't commit suicide. I know that they do. Sometimes it is difficult to predict what another person is going through and how they will respond to stress.

I know of several families that have experienced the suicide of a father or child. It is so painful for them to accept or to talk about. Some family members worry about whether their loved one will go to heaven because some faiths teach that those who commit suicide have murdered themselves and will spend eternity in hell. I certainly do not feel this way at all. How sad that some families have to endure a dual suffering...a loved one who has ended his own life and a church that condemns them. Its heartbreaking.

It did kind of come across that way, but if you say that wasn't what you intended, I believe you.

I talked to a friend who's LDS (returned missionary) and he sent me this pointer to
an article from M. Russell Ballard that goes into some of the LDS theology relative to suicide. The position isn't nearly as harsh as some other denominations.

From the article:

"Obviously, we do not know the full circumstances surrounding every suicide. Only the Lord knows all the details, and he it is who will judge our actions here on earth.

"When he does judge us, I feel he will take all things into consideration: our genetic and chemical makeup, our mental state, our intellectual capacity, the teachings we have received, the traditions of our fathers, our health, and so forth" ("Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not," Ensign, Oct. 1987, 8).

 

[shefner]

I'm just curious...for those here that believe that Steven most likely committed suicide, how do you think he would have planned that? And how do you think he might have carried this out.....

(Looking back on this question, it seems pretty open-ended....but I would like to know others theories)

 

[shefner]

It did kind of come across that way, but if you say that wasn't what you intended, I believe you.

I talked to a friend who's LDS (returned missionary) and he sent me this pointer to
an article from M. Russell Ballard that goes into some of the LDS theology relative to suicide. The position isn't nearly as harsh as some other denominations.

From the article:

"Obviously, we do not know the full circumstances surrounding every suicide. Only the Lord knows all the details, and he it is who will judge our actions here on earth.

"When he does judge us, I feel he will take all things into consideration: our genetic and chemical makeup, our mental state, our intellectual capacity, the teachings we have received, the traditions of our fathers, our health, and so forth" ("Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not," Ensign, Oct. 1987, 8).

I view suicide as a health issue. There are many sides to a person's health....spiritual, emotional, mental, physical. One of the strongest natural urges that man has is self-preservation, or survival. When a person takes his own life, he is not well....because his spiritual, emotional, mental and/or physical health is compromised. Certainly the Lord above would forgive someone for this.

And that is my view in a few sentences.

 

[laytonian]

I'm just curious...for those here that believe that Steven most likely committed suicide, how do you think he would have planned that? And how do you think he might have carried this out.....

(Looking back on this question, it seems pretty open-ended....but I would like to know others theories)

Drug overdose.
Weapon.
Hypothermia after going into the mountains to pray.

 

[Fairy1]

Drug overdose.
Weapon.
Hypothermia after going into the mountains to pray.

If so, did he not want anyone to find him? Why would that be? Seriously, I don't understand.

 

[shefner]

Drug overdose.
Weapon.
Hypothermia after going into the mountains to pray.

Why would he have parked his car there....in an age-restricted neighborhood? So that it would be found within a few days?

If he went into the mountains to pray, why not park at the foot of the mountain? Just thinking out loud....

 

[carbuff]

I'm just curious...for those here that believe that Steven most likely committed suicide, how do you think he would have planned that? And how do you think he might have carried this out.....

(Looking back on this question, it seems pretty open-ended....but I would like to know others theories)

In addition to the ones Laytonian mentioned, he might have thrown himself off a high place.

I don't know why. I can picture it being because he wanted to leave his family with the image of the perfect son that he could never be. So by just disappearing, they can still have him the way he was. Yes, it's painful, but I can imagine how a person, especially a depressed person, could see that as less hurtful than having them know how he failed them. (I'm speaking of his view, not of a factual situation.)

 

[Fairy1]

Why would he have parked his car there....in an age-restricted neighborhood? So that it would be found within a few days?

If he went into the mountains to pray, why not park at the foot of the mountain? Just thinking out loud....

I've always wondered why he would have come here at all, if suicide was his intent. There are many more places in Utah where he could have ended his life and remained hidden forever.

I still believe the key to everything is to determine WHY Steven was in the Las Vegas/Henderson area.

 

[Fairy1]

In addition to the ones Laytonian mentioned, he might have thrown himself off a high place.

I don't know why. I can picture it being because he wanted to leave his family with the image of the perfect son that he could never be. So by just disappearing, they can still have him the way he was. Yes, it's painful, but I can imagine how a person, especially a depressed person, could see that as less hurtful than having them know how he failed them. (I'm speaking of his view, not of a factual situation.)

Thank you, carbuff. Even though this is not my theory, I truly appreciate your insight.

 

[carbuff]

Thank you, carbuff. Even though this is not my theory, I truly appreciate your insight.

And I thank you for your insights too -- the combination of our varying points of view is what keeps us focused on what we do and do not know. One of these days we'll come up with something that will be the right answer.

 

[laytonian]

I've always wondered why he would have come here at all, if suicide was his intent. There are many more places in Utah where he could have ended his life and remained hidden forever.

I still believe the key to everything is to determine WHY Steven was in the Las Vegas/Henderson area.

I think the reason rests with Steven himself.

Even IF he told someone he was going there "for a job", who'd really ask "at what address?" or "what's their name?"

You might ask "what's the job"....but that's about it.

 

[laytonian]

Why would he have parked his car there....in an age-restricted neighborhood? So that it would be found within a few days?

I can only think of two reasons:

1 - Someone told him to park there, rather in front of a home. There's no parking allowed on the street in SCA; if you look at realty ads, many say "no on-street parking".

2 - Privacy. It's behind a sound wall, invisible from the road, and in a neighborhood. He didn't have to know it was a retirement neighborhood. AND...the big one? He could have left it at an airport, casino, Walgreens, Home Depot...but they all have security cameras. How would he know, he'd parade right by Mr Security's videocams?

If he went into the mountains to pray, why not park at the foot of the mountain? Just thinking out loud....

He may have thought he was at the foot of the mountains...or hills.

Did you look at the images posted, taken from the Revere Golf Course that he parked near? The mountains look like you can walk to them. SCA's surrounded by hills, except for the St Mary Blvd outlet.

Since the cell tower hits seem to place him on St Mary's Blvd, coming in to SCA, it'd be interesting what the view of the neighborhoods was, from that end of Anthem.

 

[laytonian]

If so, did he not want anyone to find him? Why would that be? Seriously, I don't understand.

Why would you want someone you know and love to find you, if you were committing suicide?

That's *exactly* why you'd go to a strange place.

We just saw the outcome of the Cremona-Simmons case, where she left the motel room and killed herself in a parking lot a few miles away. For all we know, she arranged to go on that trip to Albuquerque (from Virginia), just so she wouldn't harm herself at home. Where her family would have to deal with things.

 

[Fairy1]

Why would you want someone you know and love to find you, if you were committing suicide?

That's *exactly* why you'd go to a strange place.

We just saw the outcome of the Cremona-Simmons case, where she left the motel room and killed herself in a parking lot a few miles away. For all we know, she arranged to go on that trip to Albuquerque (from Virginia), just so she wouldn't harm herself at home. Where her family would have to deal with things.

I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. If a suicide is intended to hurt those left behind, you would want them to find you. In Rochelle's case, she fought with her husband before she left and she didn't hide herself away where she would never be found. But she also had serious health issues that may have played a major role in her decision. IDK.

I think it's just as horrible for a family to be left wondering forever.

 

[laytonian]

I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. If a suicide is intended to hurt those left behind, you would want them to find you. In Rochelle's case, she fought with her husband before she left and she didn't hide herself away where she would never be found. But she also had serious health issues that may have played a major role in her decision. IDK.

I think it's just as horrible for a family to be left wondering forever.

....and maybe that's the purpose.

Cremona-Simmons' text messages showed (IMO) an "I'll get even with YOU!" mentality.

If that's Steven Koecher in the security video, he's walking away willingly after leaving his earthly possessions behind in St George ... and the requisite Christmas gifts in the car.

He's either a person who'd walk away with a "you'll be sorry" stubborn attitude, or he's no longer with us.

 

[Fairy1]

....and maybe that's the purpose.

Cremona-Simmons' text messages showed (IMO) an "I'll get even with YOU!" mentality.

If that's Steven Koecher in the security video, he's walking away willingly after leaving his earthly possessions behind in St George ... and the requisite Christmas gifts in the car.

He's either a person who'd walk away with a "you'll be sorry" stubborn attitude, or he's no longer with us.

You're absolutely right. Based on all we've learned about Steven, I just can't see him with a "getting even" attitude. But then, I'm not sure we really know the extent of the discord between him and his folks prior to his going missing. It may have been more serious than we know - at least to Steven.

 

[laytonian]

I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. If a suicide is intended to hurt those left behind, you would want them to find you. In Rochelle's case, she fought with her husband before she left and she didn't hide herself away where she would never be found. But she also had serious health issues that may have played a major role in her decision. IDK.

I think it's just as horrible for a family to be left wondering forever.

If you're angry and/or hurt, clear to the bone .... do you really care?

We know both Steven and Rochelle had disagreements before they left.