NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #18

[Fairy1]

So the missing man who's already been ID'd, is not human?

There were two sets of remains. One was human and ID'd; one was not human.

Of course, we all know that now. My point is, that's not the way it was reported on Tuesday.

I don't recall ever hearing about the Bonnie Springs remains until yesterday, when they corrected the report that the coroner claimed the remains were not human.

 

[laytonian]

Of course, we all know that now. My point is, that's not the way it was reported on Tuesday.

I don't recall ever hearing about the Bonnie Springs remains until yesterday, when they corrected the report that the coroner claimed the remains were not human.

Oh! I misunderstood what you were saying.

I don't think anyone knew about the Bonnie Springs remains, until the results of those tests were final. One report I read, said the guy who found them, picked them up and took them home. :furious: THEN, he decided to turn them in. (Maybe after hearing about the ones on the Red Rock cliff?)

 

[laytonian]

17 miles is not very far for a fit mountaineer/backpacker to hike in a day.

Yeah....but most of that was through town.

 

[Fairy1]

17 miles is not very far for a fit mountaineer/backpacker to hike in a day.

If you look at the map laytonian posted earlier, it would be a rather odd "hike." IMO.

Though no stranger than Steven walking off into the foothills from Evening Lights, I suppose.

 

[grayjay]

....or maybe Steven's following GUSTER, who he apparently followed on a three-day road trip to Dallas, in late 2007.

This would have been while he worked at the Trib.
Kinda worldly in itself, I'd say.

Don't know why I never noticed the pictures on his own FB page before.

I didn't know Guster, so I hiked over to youtube and found a promo video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k-VAlIPzKg

just a few lines from the Do You Love Me lyrics, all of which sound relevant here:

I got marbles in my mouth
Thousand words I wanna say but it's impossible to spit em out
I can barely make a sound
Do you love me?​

Speaks to me. I truly hope he's following Guster!

 

[Fairy1]

....or maybe Steven's following GUSTER, who he apparently followed on a three-day road trip to Dallas, in late 2007.

This would have been while he worked at the Trib.
Kinda worldly in itself, I'd say.

Don't know why I never noticed the pictures on his own FB page before.

This is interesting. Guster's 2009 tour ended on 11/27/09. But I wonder where these dudes live & what they do in their off time.

 

[shefner]

Most suicide notes are written so that family and friends can fairly easily find them. Why take the time to write the note, then carry it off with you into hiding, where your remains will not be found? Why drive so far from home, then park where you know your car will be found....but your remains will not? Why not leave a suicide note in your car?

A spontaneous decision to end it all doesn't really fit.....who would drive so far to make a spontaneous decision ?Something spontaneous sounds like, "Let me pull my car over and go into the woods right there and shoot myself...no note, no nothing...just get this over with."

It seems to me that if Steven committed suicide, it was planned and well thought out.

My pregnant friend (one that I worked with when we both were in the early days of marriage) committed suicide in a doctor's office rest room. Her suicide note was found in her purse. She had been acting a bit distressed in the weeks leading up to the incident. That day, she went to the doctor's office and said she thought she was in labor. They placed her in an examining room. She slipped out and told a nurse she was going to go to the restroom before her exam. The note simply read, "Save my baby."
It is believed she was contemplating suicide for a few months....but acted that day. The big thing is that there were some signs but we didn't think they were pointing to suicide at the time, only after.

I just can't get a handle on Steven's case....and I think you guys may know a bit more about this case than I do since I have only been following it for a couple months.

 

[Fairy1]

Most suicide notes are written so that family and friends can fairly easily find them. Why take the time to write the note, then carry it off with you into hiding, where your remains will not be found? Why drive so far from home, then park where you know your car will be found....but your remains will not? Why not leave a suicide note in your car?

A spontaneous decision to end it all doesn't really fit.....who would drive so far to make a spontaneous decision ?Something spontaneous sounds like, "Let me pull my car over and go into the woods right there and shoot myself...no note, no nothing...just get this over with."

It seems to me that if Steven committed suicide, it was planned and well thought out.

My pregnant friend (one that I worked with when we both were in the early days of marriage) committed suicide in a doctor's office rest room. Her suicide note was found in her purse. She had been acting a bit distressed in the weeks leading up to the incident. That day, she went to the doctor's office and said she thought she was in labor. They placed her in an examining room. She slipped out and told a nurse she was going to go to the restroom before her exam. The note simply read, "Save my baby."
It is believed she was contemplating suicide for a few months....but acted that day. The big thing is that there were some signs but we didn't think they were pointing to suicide at the time, only after.

I just can't get a handle on Steven's case....and I think you guys may know a bit more about this case than I do since I have only been following it for a couple months.

Been here for nearly a year and I have no more handle on Steven's case now than I did day one. I LOVE to see new eyes and theories!!!

 

[laytonian]

This is interesting. Guster's 2009 tour ended on 11/27/09. But I wonder where these dudes live & what they do in their off time.

They're all from the Northeast (New Jersey, Connecticut, New York) and met in Massachusetts (college, Tufts) ...except for the new guy.

If you think you've never heard of them, listen: Fa Fa (youtube.com)

ETA:
My apologies for the image/video here; it automatically inserted.
(Unless I'm the only one who hates the big pictures....LOL)

 

[laytonian]

Most suicide notes are written so that family and friends can fairly easily find them. Why take the time to write the note, then carry it off with you into hiding, where your remains will not be found? Why drive so far from home, then park where you know your car will be found....but your remains will not? Why not leave a suicide note in your car?

A spontaneous decision to end it all doesn't really fit.....who would drive so far to make a spontaneous decision ?Something spontaneous sounds like, "Let me pull my car over and go into the woods right there and shoot myself...no note, no nothing...just get this over with."

It seems to me that if Steven committed suicide, it was planned and well thought out.

My pregnant friend (one that I worked with when we both were in the early days of marriage) committed suicide in a doctor's office rest room. Her suicide note was found in her purse. She had been acting a bit distressed in the weeks leading up to the incident. That day, she went to the doctor's office and said she thought she was in labor. They placed her in an examining room. She slipped out and told a nurse she was going to go to the restroom before her exam. The note simply read, "Save my baby."
It is believed she was contemplating suicide for a few months....but acted that day. The big thing is that there were some signs but we didn't think they were pointing to suicide at the time, only after.

I just can't get a handle on Steven's case....and I think you guys may know a bit more about this case than I do since I have only been following it for a couple months.

We've gathered a lot of information, that has led us nowhere.
Some here are romantics, who want him to be alive and happy elsewhere.
I'm clinical, and believe that he couldn't stay away from his family for this long.

Since most who commit suicide don't leave a note (source: Myths About Suicide from NewsOK.com and NAMI), it's not an indicator.

Speculation:
But one who "journals" their live, may just do so.
Perhaps that person had one written out, and then at the self-appointed time, decided not to leave it in their car....so took it with them. (IMO)

 

[carbuff]

If you look at the map laytonian posted earlier, it would be a rather odd "hike." IMO.

Though no stranger than Steven walking off into the foothills from Evening Lights, I suppose.

I was using "hike" as a generic term for "long walk." Whether he went through town or along a mountain ridge, it's still less than a day's travel on foot for somebody of his fitness level and interests.

 

[carbuff]

I agree...St George being between two places SLC LV.

On my wish list for info to look at, I would want to look @ maint info on his car...oil change services keep track of dates and miles, maybe a envelope in the glove box. I would go back as far as possible and see if there was any unusual spikes in miles, or freq of oil changes, in relation to events in his life before going missing.

I'd be interested in knowing that too -- whether those long trips gallivanting over half the southwest were typical for him, or if they were sudden and unusual. Also where he was going on those trips. If he regularly drove around like that, I'd be far less inclined to see it as part of a psychological crisis that might have lead into thoughts of ending his own life.

Though I gotta say, the more I see of what he was doing those last few weeks, the more it seems like he was angry, pushed too far, rather than depressed.

 

[SugarJames]

Lots movement...from JP in the SCP case that tends to confirm lots of my theory.

 

[Salem]

Lots movement...from JP in the SCP case that tends to confirm lots of my theory.

SugarJames - you need to link to the "movement" in the in SCP case, please. A post like this is considered baiting, because you imply that you have secret information. That is against TOS. If you do not want to share the source and the information, that is fine. But you can't come here then and make a post like this and 'bait' the other posters.

Thanks and please provide links.

Salem

 

[webrocket]

SugarJames - you need to link to the "movement" in the in SCP case, please. A post like this is considered baiting, because you imply that you have secret information. That is against TOS. If you do not want to share the source and the information, that is fine. But you can't come here then and make a post like this and 'bait' the other posters.

Thanks and please provide links.

Salem

Laytonian and I were told we could not criticize the nonsense posted by SugarJames and that we should put him on ignore. so I did what I had to do and just ignored him.

 

[laytonian]

17 miles is not very far for a fit mountaineer/backpacker to hike in a day.

It is, in mid-January, when there's very little daylight.

January 19th, his last credit card activity:
Sunrise -- 6:49 AM PST
Sunset -- 4:53 PM PST

That's 10 hours and 4 minutes.
It's about ten miles to the *start* of the hike, from where his car was found.
Seems iffy to spend most of the daylight, walking along a city street.

Did he take a taxi?
Hitch a ride?

Someone should have seen him.

 

[Fairy1]

I'd be interested in knowing that too -- whether those long trips gallivanting over half the southwest were typical for him, or if they were sudden and unusual. Also where he was going on those trips. If he regularly drove around like that, I'd be far less inclined to see it as part of a psychological crisis that might have lead into thoughts of ending his own life.

Though I gotta say, the more I see of what he was doing those last few weeks, the more it seems like he was angry, pushed too far, rather than depressed.

Didn't KC tell us long ago that it wasn't unusual for Steven to take those little road trips or am I just imagining that?

Of course, unless he told them about it in the seven months since he'd moved to St. George, they wouldn't know. And we do know that he didn't mention those last few trips to his family. Why?

You raise a good point as to whether he may have been angry versus depressed. We've sort of come to the conclusion that he must have been depressed, but we don't really know that he was.

We know he was very spiritual. We know he was very involved in his ward. We know he attended the holiday party (albeit briefly). We know he had gone home for Thanksgiving and planned to go back for Christmas. These just don't seem like the actions of a depressed person to me.

If he did choose to end his life, it seems to me it would have been a spontaneous decision spurred by something significant that happened in those days leading up to 12/13. Something he felt he could not overcome, even with his strong faith.

IMHO

 

[carbuff]

It is, in mid-January, when there's very little daylight.

January 19th, his last credit card activity:
Sunrise -- 6:49 AM PST
Sunset -- 4:53 PM PST

That's 10 hours and 4 minutes.
It's about ten miles to the *start* of the hike, from where his car was found.
Seems iffy to spend most of the daylight, walking along a city street.

Did he take a taxi?
Hitch a ride?

Someone should have seen him.

An experienced hiker on level ground can walk at 2.5 to 3 mph easily -- which would be 25 to 30 miles in ten hours.

It hadn't occurred to me until I started to write this how many similarities there are to Steven's case.

Man from out of town. Car left in odd location -- in this case far from where body was found, in Steven's case far from last telephone ping. No word or anything to family about why he left.

 

[Fairy1]

An experienced hiker on level ground can walk at 2.5 to 3 mph easily -- which would be 25 to 30 miles in ten hours.

It hadn't occurred to me until I started to write this how many similarities there are to Steven's case.

Man from out of town. Car left in odd location -- in this case far from where body was found, in Steven's case far from last telephone ping. No word or anything to family about why he left.

He supported himself by playing poker professionally, so I would assume he spent a good deal of time here in Vegas. He wasn't married and it sounds like his siblings lived elsewhere, so I don't find it unusual they didn't know where he was. He was a 54 year old man. IIRC, he wasn't even reported missing for a month.

I don't see any similarities really.

 

[carbuff]

He supported himself by playing poker professionally, so I would assume he spent a good deal of time here in Vegas. He wasn't married and it sounds like his siblings lived elsewhere, so I don't find it unusual they didn't know where he was. He was a 54 year old man. IIRC, he wasn't even reported missing for a month.

I don't see any similarities really.

If the SCA people hadn't made an effort to find the owner of the car, how long would it have been before anybody noticed Steven was missing?