NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #18

[laytonian]

Has this trip planned??? For when?

I'm having scheduling complications -- our RV is still being serviced and we don't know when it will be done. It's taken so long, all the decent RV parks in decent places, are full.

 

[laytonian]

by whom?

if GW has not opened up by now about why HE was in Vegas or if he knew why Steven was in Vegas, he's not all of a sudden going to speak up.

given the cultural quirks of the people involved, I think there is alot of don't ask, don't tell and I'm not referring to just homosexuality.

there are many things Mormons are not supposed to do - drink, smoke, gamble, etc. so no one asks what people are up to because they don't really want to know.

'cept the Mormons, for years, ran the casinos. Lots of them worked for Howard Hughes.

Not to be disrespectful, but we used to chuckle about going to Wendover and ALWAYS seeing at least one of our Mormon neighbors/coworkers there. They were doing what everyone else was doing: gambling, drinking, smoking.
We really didn't care, because those same people couldn't lecture US anymore on our "sins".

why else would men, particularly young single ones (but not limited to that group) go to Vegas? they go to gamble, drink, maybe pick up some casual sex and go home. that's why none of these people asked one another what they were doing in Vegas.

Bingo.

 

[carbuff]

I know he checked out clear, but you will never convince me that GW and Steven did not discuss why they both had been in LV......unless it was already known.

I believe they never talked about it. Totally believe it. This is why:

My middle son was good friends with a guy for several years, all though high school and college. The other guy invited Steven to his wedding. The day the envelope came, son looked at it and said, "I don't know anybody named XXXX -- oh, wait, that must be George." He had made more than one trip to Foxwoods (regional casino) with this guy, gone hiking and partying with him, and didn't know his full given name.

And even though they had been on a two-day trip to the casino only a week before, son had not known his friend was dating somebody, let alone that he was about to get married. Knew his friend was about to move out of his apartment, but did not know that he had bought a house in the suburbs. Knew his friend was going on a vacation in Jamaica, didn't know it was a honeymoon.

So yeah, guys don't necessarily talk about things. It makes no sense to me, but I've seen it in action.

 

[laytonian]

Thank you!

Have you ever been there? Both times I've been there, I've gone in from the other direction - off of Eastern.

The traffic along Anthem Parkway moves at a VERY brisk pace and if you didn't know exactly where you were going you would, most likely, have to flip a u-ey and double back.

You may recall, on my last trip there, I called you and you led me to a neighborhood from which we thought we could get to the foothills. But it didn't work! It was nothing but more and more houses - built higher and higher.

I readily admit, I have a horrific sense of direction. But Whitney Ranch or foothills - where Steven parked that car makes no sense at all.

It doesn't have to make sense.

There's a very good reason why it's important to drive to SCA via the other direction, I-15 to St Rose Parkway: The 9:53am cell tower hit, while he was talking to Seth Aboud, is right in the area of I-15 and St Rose parkway. It's nowhere near Eastern.

Reference: swjaxon's map.

There's something interesting about the known events that morning: everything is ALMOST EXACTLY two hours apart.

7:52am: Webb calls him (tower just off I-15 North of Vegas)
9:53am: Abboud calls him (tower just off I-15 South of Vegs)
11:54am: Car is captured on security video

In other words, SK was in the Vegas area for FOUR HOURS that morning, before he parked. That's lots of time to find the right place, if not already scoped out.

 

[sbakker]

by whom?

if GW has not opened up by now about why HE was in Vegas or if he knew why Steven was in Vegas, he's not all of a sudden going to speak up.

given the cultural quirks of the people involved, I think there is alot of don't ask, don't tell and I'm not referring to just homosexuality.

there are many things Mormons are not supposed to do - drink, smoke, gamble, etc. so no one asks what people are up to because they don't really want to know.

why else would men, particularly young single ones (but not limited to that group) go to Vegas? they go to gamble, drink, maybe pick up some casual sex and go home. that's why none of these people asked one another what they were doing in Vegas.

I agree with you about GW. If he did not speak up before, he is not going to now.
But I do remember reading Gw's FB before he made it private. As I read it, I felt like he may have gone to places to gamble. His friends would write him, and asked him if he was going to a few places in NV. to gamble. one person joked about him going gambling.

Maybe it was something he was trying to hide (maybe sk too).
I am mormon. I used to go to LV and play too. i would gamble when I was there, see a showoccasionally or concert. I remember seeing Cher, and when the waiter came to our table and said"what would you like to drink"? And I said coke, he laughed and said "mormon?" he brought 2 2 liters of coke in a champagne bucket.
I would tell people I was going there, and they did not say "no!" Or "why would you do that?" But I really did not care if they did.

Maybe sk and gw were in LV doing things people in their church positions should not be doing. And did not want others to know. Maybe Sk felt guilty, and thought he should not be involved in these activities. And Gw, did not want others to find out....just another thought.

I lived in St. George for many years. I have a friend , who is 39, who is gay. He was raised there, lives there, has home teachers, and lived 2blocks away from Sk. He never heard about Sk in the gay community. And if anyone would, he would. He is very social, very loved, has a decent job, well known, and accepted.

 

[laytonian]

I agree with you about GW. If he did not speak up before, he is not going to now.
But I do remember reading Gw's FB before he made it private. As I read it, I felt like he may have gone to places to gamble. His friends would write him, and asked him if he was going to a few places in NV. to gamble. one person joked about him going gambling.

Maybe it was something he was trying to hide (maybe sk too).
I am mormon. I used to go to LV and play too. i would gamble when I was there, see a showoccasionally or concert. I remember seeing Cher, and when the waiter came to our table and said"what would you like to drink"? And I said coke, he laughed and said "mormon?" he brought 2 2 liters of coke in a champagne bucket.
I would tell people I was going there, and they did not say "no!" Or "why would you do that?" But I really did not care if they did.

Maybe sk and gw were in LV doing things people in their church positions should not be doing. And did not want others to know. Maybe Sk felt guilty, and thought he should not be involved in these activities. And Gw, did not want others to find out....just another thought.

I lived in St. George for many years. I have a friend , who is 39, who is gay. He was raised there, lives there, has home teachers, and lived 2blocks away from Sk. He never heard about Sk in the gay community. And if anyone would, he would. He is very social, very loved, has a decent job, well known, and accepted.

Thanks. I, too, remember the comments on the FB page...about Wendover, primarily. That may have been a safe place, since it was far from both his hometown and residential town.

I also remember him saying "a long story, maybe someday I'll tell you".
I was tempted to do a screen capture, but didn't.

With all of our curiosity and prying about what went on, I wish GW would realize that there are many non-judgmental people here, who he could tell a long story to. Yes, we're curious. But many of us also keep confidences.

 

[Fairy1]

It doesn't have to make sense.

There's a very good reason why it's important to drive to SCA via the other direction, I-15 to St Rose Parkway: The 9:53am cell tower hit, while he was talking to Seth Aboud, is right in the area of I-15 and St Rose parkway. It's nowhere near Eastern.

Reference: swjaxon's map.

Actually, Eastern runs right into St. Rose and is the entrance to Anthem from the east side. I don't need a map, I've been there. And, the Laurel Heights turnoff would have been a simple right hand turn off of Anthem Pkwy. Coming from the other direction, he would have had to turn left, across traffic, when he could have easily made a right hand turn into the other side of the neighborhood. Why would he do that?

There's something interesting about the known events that morning: everything is ALMOST EXACTLY two hours apart.

7:52am: Webb calls him (tower just off I-15 North of Vegas)
9:53am: Abboud calls him (tower just off I-15 South of Vegs)
11:54am: Car is captured on security video

In other words, SK was in the Vegas area for FOUR HOURS that morning, before he parked. That's lots of time to find the right place, if not already scoped out.

So........what does that mean? It tells us nothing.

Was he in Vegas smoking, drinking, gambling and sexing it up or was he driving around looking for a retirement community to dump his car? Or looking for a job. Or meeting a lover. Or.....?

BTW - if he entered Anthem from I-15 and St. Rose, he would have driven right by the Silverton Casino. Anything relevant to that?

 

[Fairy1]

I agree with you about GW. If he did not speak up before, he is not going to now.
But I do remember reading Gw's FB before he made it private. As I read it, I felt like he may have gone to places to gamble. His friends would write him, and asked him if he was going to a few places in NV. to gamble. one person joked about him going gambling.

Maybe it was something he was trying to hide (maybe sk too).
I am mormon. I used to go to LV and play too. i would gamble when I was there, see a showoccasionally or concert. I remember seeing Cher, and when the waiter came to our table and said"what would you like to drink"? And I said coke, he laughed and said "mormon?" he brought 2 2 liters of coke in a champagne bucket.
I would tell people I was going there, and they did not say "no!" Or "why would you do that?" But I really did not care if they did.

Maybe sk and gw were in LV doing things people in their church positions should not be doing. And did not want others to know. Maybe Sk felt guilty, and thought he should not be involved in these activities. And Gw, did not want others to find out....just another thought.

I lived in St. George for many years. I have a friend , who is 39, who is gay. He was raised there, lives there, has home teachers, and lived 2blocks away from Sk. He never heard about Sk in the gay community. And if anyone would, he would. He is very social, very loved, has a decent job, well known, and accepted.

IF Steven was doing things he shouldn't have been (according to the church), he could have done them any day of the week. And he could have done them in Mesquite. He didn't have to come all the way to Vegas, on a Sunday when he had other obligations.

 

[sbakker]

IF Steven was doing things he shouldn't have been (according to the church), he could have done them any day of the week. And he could have done them in Mesquite. He didn't have to come all the way to Vegas, on a Sunday when he had other obligations.

I think SK went there because of GW. I think he may have met GW there, and maybe had a weekend plan. Nobody in St. George knew about it, because why would part of the Elders Q. Presidency be doing down there? And once SK knew what they were going to do, he did not want to go along with it. Maybe felt guilty. And GW did not want him to tell anyone and... well, just another thought.

 

[sbakker]

IF Steven was doing things he shouldn't have been (according to the church), he could have done them any day of the week. And he could have done them in Mesquite. He didn't have to come all the way to Vegas, on a Sunday when he had other obligations.

You are right. SK could have done things any day of the week. but I believe he was invited there by GW and friends and thought he would be home for Sunday obligations.

 

[webrocket]

I think SK went there because of GW. I think he may have met GW there, and maybe had a weekend plan. Nobody in St. George knew about it, because why would part of the Elders Q. Presidency be doing down there? And once SK knew what they were going to do, he did not want to go along with it. Maybe felt guilty. And GW did not want him to tell anyone and... well, just another thought.

weren't Steven and GW more or less going in different directions that Sunday? SK was in Vegas and told GW he was not going to be at church and GW said ok, I'll go back to St. G and cover it. that is my brief summary of my recollection of events.

Had the two met up in person, this conversation would not have taken place so I don't think they met each other in Vegas. of course it begs the question of whether GW's account of the conversation is true, but it does seem to fit within their don't ask don't tell mentality.

 

[laytonian]

weren't Steven and GW more or less going in different directions that Sunday? SK was in Vegas and told GW he was not going to be at church and GW said ok, I'll go back to St. G and cover it. that is my brief summary of my recollection of events.

Had the two met up in person, this conversation would not have taken place so I don't think they met each other in Vegas. of course it begs the question of whether GW's account of the conversation is true, but it does seem to fit within their don't ask don't tell mentality.

AND

I think SK went there because of GW. I think he may have met GW there, and maybe had a weekend plan. Nobody in St. George knew about it, because why would part of the Elders Q. Presidency be doing down there? And once SK knew what they were going to do, he did not want to go along with it. Maybe felt guilty. And GW did not want him to tell anyone and... well, just another thought.

GW's statement and SK's cell tower hit at 7:52am PST indicate they must have passed each other on the road, going different directions.

But....SK went somewhere south the day before; at least as far as Overton. With his cell phone turned OFF between 8am and 9pm (otherwise, he wouldn't have had to check voicemail) -- and there's no other tower hits that day. We know SK came back to St George (Mesquite gas, Kmart receipt, neighbor sighting).

So...sbakker and you could be on the same track: SK and GW both may have been in Vegas on Dec 12 (together?) but SK came home that same day. The question is: what made him go back south?

Investigation Discover cable network is having all-day "Disappeared" episodes today. It's interesting to find out how many of the younger people, have some kind of theft charges against them, in the immediate period before they disappeared.

Bradyn Fuksa took his parents 9mm gun from their Olathe, KS home -- and his car was found near Douglas, WY.

 

[laytonian]

IF Steven was doing things he shouldn't have been (according to the church), he could have done them any day of the week. And he could have done them in Mesquite. He didn't have to come all the way to Vegas, on a Sunday when he had other obligations.

But he obviously did just that.

IF his highest obligation was his church calling, what was he doing in Vegas on Sunday morning?

I really doubt he had a job appointment at noon on Sunday.
He wouldn't have sat in the car for six minutes, then started walking right at noon.

Why did it take him four hours to drive between the north and south ends of the Vegas valley?

 

[laytonian]

Actually, Eastern runs right into St. Rose and is the entrance to Anthem from the east side. I don't need a map, I've been there. And, the Laurel Heights turnoff would have been a simple right hand turn off of Anthem Pkwy. Coming from the other direction, he would have had to turn left, across traffic, when he could have easily made a right hand turn into the other side of the neighborhood. Why would he do that?

How much traffic is there on Anthem Parkway, at 11:54am on Sunday?

As for him coming in on I-15 and taking the St Rose exit - I see three reasons that tell us that was his likely route:
1 - He seems to be the kind of driver who stays on the freeways.
2 - The St Rose exit is the last exit for the Vegas valley - right?
3 - The cell tower hit places him there.

So........what does that mean? It tells us nothing.

Maybe, maybe not. But like I said, I'd like to drive in that way, without a map or using the GPS....and just look. Get a feeling for it, the same way he may have - without a map or directions.

Why? Just to see if there's anything intuitive.
I also want to take one specific turn, and look hard at something.

Was he in Vegas smoking, drinking, gambling and sexing it up or was he driving around looking for a retirement community to dump his car? Or looking for a job. Or meeting a lover. Or.....?

If I have my choice? Dumping a car.

BTW - if he entered Anthem from I-15 and St. Rose, he would have driven right by the Silverton Casino. Anything relevant to that?

I don't think so.
On I-15, he'd have seen every casino on the Strip - from the back -- and Silverton (six miles north at the I-15/Blue Diamond exit).

 

[Fairy1]

How much traffic is there on Anthem Parkway, at 11:54am on Sunday?

As for him coming in on I-15 and taking the St Rose exit - I see three reasons that tell us that was his likely route:
1 - He seems to be the kind of driver who stays on the freeways.
2 - The St Rose exit is the last exit for the Vegas valley - right?
3 - The cell tower hit places him there.

Both times I've been out there (on Sunday), there's been a good amount of traffic and at a relatively high speed. If you're not exactly sure where you're going, it's not really possible to slow down much.

Maybe, maybe not. But like I said, I'd like to drive in that way, without a map or using the GPS....and just look. Get a feeling for it, the same way he may have - without a map or directions.

Why? Just to see if there's anything intuitive.
I also want to take one specific turn, and look hard at something.

I will do that next time (except for the specific turn - as I don't know what you have in mind). Even so, it didn't take him four hours to get from where he was when the GW call came in to Savannah Springs. On a Sunday morning, it would have taken maybe 20 to 25 minutes at the very most. So, the question remains, what was he doing all those hours in between?

If I have my choice? Dumping a car.

So, he spent roughly four hours looking for a safe place to dump his car so he could walk off into the hills to end his life??? Or to walk off and start a new life? Or....what? This is what I just don't understand.

I don't think so.
On I-15, he'd have seen every casino on the Strip - from the back -- and Silverton (six miles north at the I-15/Blue Diamond exit).

Yes, besides the Silverton, you would pass by every single hotel/casino on the west side of the Strip. And Palace Station @ I-15 and Sahara, etc. The M resort is on St. Rose off of I-15 and en route to Anthem. Who's to say he didn't stop at one of them? They're all easily accessible from I-15. Maybe he was trying to parlay what little money he had into enough to pay his rent.

I suppose he could have driven all around Anthem for all that time.

 

[laytonian]

Both times I've been out there (on Sunday), there's been a good amount of traffic and at a relatively high speed. If you're not exactly sure where you're going, it's not really possible to slow down much.

I will do that next time (except for the specific turn - as I don't know what you have in mind). Even so, it didn't take him four hours to get from where he was when the GW call came in to Savannah Springs. On a Sunday morning, it would have taken maybe 20 to 25 minutes at the very most. So, the question remains, what was he doing all those hours in between?

So, he spent roughly four hours looking for a safe place to dump his car so he could walk off into the hills to end his life??? Or to walk off and start a new life? Or....what? This is what I just don't understand.

Like the case I mentioned downthread, where a young man drove to his parents' home in Olathe KS, took their 9mm gun, and then drove all the way to Douglas, Wyoming - where he abandoned his car on the side of I-25?

The interesting thing about that case was, like in Steven's, all the things left behind in the car.

Yes, besides the Silverton, you would pass by every single hotel/casino on the west side of the Strip. And Palace Station @ I-15 and Sahara, etc. The M resort is on St. Rose off of I-15 and en route to Anthem. Who's to say he didn't stop at one of them? They're all easily accessible from I-15. Maybe he was trying to parlay what little money he had into enough to pay his rent.

I suppose he could have driven all around Anthem for all that time.

He wasn't in the SCA area until two hours later....but yeah, I think he could have driven around after talking to SA, to find the perfect parking place.

 

[Fairy1]

Like the case I mentioned downthread, where a young man drove to his parents' home in Olathe KS, took their 9mm gun, and then drove all the way to Douglas, Wyoming - where he abandoned his car on the side of I-25?

The interesting thing about that case was, like in Steven's, all the things left behind in the car.

Well, there you go. If Steven had left his car along the highway, it would have been discovered a lot sooner than it was. This city is surrounded by desert. He could have walked off in nearly any direction.

He wasn't in the SCA area until two hours later....but yeah, I think he could have driven around after talking to SA, to find the perfect parking place.

He could have been all the way to L.A. in that time. WHY DID HE STAY HERE???

 

[laytonian]

Well, there you go. If Steven had left his car along the highway, it would have been discovered a lot sooner than it was. This city is surrounded by desert. He could have walked off in nearly any direction.

He could have been all the way to L.A. in that time. WHY DID HE STAY HERE???

I don't think he stayed in Vegas....or at least anywhere near SCA. The car's location is a canard, if the phone pings heading off in another direction, are reliable.

 

[Fairy1]

I don't think he stayed in Vegas....or at least anywhere near SCA. The car's location is a canard, if the phone pings heading off in another direction, are reliable.

But didn't that last ping bring him closer into the city - and not out into the desert?

If he went elsewhere, where did he go? Why didn't he drive closer to his destination? Didn't he have a half tank of gas left?

I've tried to give up following Steven's logic, but now I'm having trouble following yours.

 

[redsky]

AND


Investigation Discover cable network is having all-day "Disappeared" episodes today. It's interesting to find out how many of the younger people, have some kind of theft charges against them, in the immediate period before they disappeared.

Bradyn Fuksa took his parents 9mm gun from their Olathe, KS home -- and his car was found near Douglas, WY.

OT but I like the show Disappeared. It does show that too many people are missing. I wish they would do one on Steven but I'm not sure there would be much more info than what we know.

Are you thinking Steven got into trouble or was doing something that some people would call "hinky" or "shady.

I have followed this case all along but haven't posted on it yet. You have done a great job laytonian.