NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #18

[Fairy1]

If the SCA people hadn't made an effort to find the owner of the car, how long would it have been before anybody noticed Steven was missing?

From what I've read, it sounds like this guy dropped off the radar fairly regularly. I think what tipped off his sister was that he was supposed to attend her daughter's wedding and didn't. That's when she realized something was wrong. It was several months later before they found his car - in a public parking lot no less.

I should hope someone would have realized Steven was missing fairly soon, but I can't say I have a huge level of confidence about that.

 

[laytonian]

If the SCA people hadn't made an effort to find the owner of the car, how long would it have been before anybody noticed Steven was missing?

Very good point.
One reason to leave the car in a residential neighborhood, would be to make sure it was found. Plus, it's unlikely he knew of the security cameras.

At a casino or airport, it could sit for months (like the hiker's car did).

So....if the car hadn't been found when it was, when would people have started searching for Steven?

If you omit calls from LL, TH and SCA's parking patrol:
NO ONE close to him, called until AFTER his car was found.

Without the car being found, what would they have thought?
That his phone was merely dead?

How long would it have taken, before someone went to the house and checked?
Or his bank accounts were checked for activity?

 

[Fairy1]

Very good point.
One reason to leave the car in a residential neighborhood, would be to make sure it was found. Plus, it's unlikely he knew of the security cameras.

At a casino or airport, it could sit for months (like the hiker's car did).

So....if the car hadn't been found when it was, when would people have started searching for Steven?

If you omit calls from LL, TH and SCA's parking patrol:
NO ONE close to him, called until AFTER his car was found.

Without the car being found, what would they have thought?
That his phone was merely dead?

How long would it have taken, before someone went to the house and checked?
Or his bank accounts were checked for activity?

Right - so maybe he did want the car to be found quickly. But why there? There are thousands of residential neighborhoods in this city - many with associations. Did he research to find a retirement community where he thought it would not only be reported soon, but safe in the meantime?

To be honest, being in the casino industry I'm a bit shocked that it took 17 months to find this guy's car. That would not happen in my company. But most folks wouldn't know that.

Based on the number of calls from LL, I think he would have contacted Steven's folks again soon to report he was unable to reach Steven. Can't say what they would have done with that information.

What about his church "friends?" How long would it have taken for them to realize there was a problem? Would GW have stepped up and said he knew Steven had gone to Vegas to ??? and never returned?

 

[carbuff]

From what I've read, it sounds like this guy dropped off the radar fairly regularly. I think what tipped off his sister was that he was supposed to attend her daughter's wedding and didn't. That's when she realized something was wrong. It was several months later before they found his car - in a public parking lot no less.

I should hope someone would have realized Steven was missing fairly soon, but I can't say I have a huge level of confidence about that.

I wouldn't claim they're identical. But it's the most similar of all the cases we found in the Las Vegas area.

 

[laytonian]

Right - so maybe he did want the car to be found quickly. But why there? There are thousands of residential neighborhoods in this city - many with associations. Did he research to find a retirement community where he thought it would not only be reported soon, but safe in the meantime?

There's always "random". When I get a chance, I'm going to drive into Vegas the same way SK did -- down I-15 to St Mary Parkway and then up on Anthem....just to see what I can see, when a left turn into a neighborhood is involved. I also want to see if that parking space is visible from the commercial area he may have turned into, first.

To be honest, being in the casino industry I'm a bit shocked that it took 17 months to find this guy's car. That would not happen in my company. But most folks wouldn't know that.

17 months to find Rosholt's car? I guess I've not been paying attention.
I thought it was four months (last used credit card on Jan 19th, car found at Silverton Casino on April 19th).

Interesting Rosholt details here.

But I don't think we can count on parking lot security; not when a woman goes missing in Albuquerque, and isn't found for eight days -- in her car, in a supposedly tightly-controlled University of New Mexico paid parking lot, with 3 parking tickets on it .... and it should have been ticked each day of the 8 days she was missing.

Based on the number of calls from LL, I think he would have contacted Steven's folks again soon to report he was unable to reach Steven. Can't say what they would have done with that information.

I don't. Steven hadn't returned LL's calls at all, even a week before he was missing. He wasn't calling *anyone* back.

What about his church "friends?" How long would it have taken for them to realize there was a problem? Would GW have stepped up and said he knew Steven had gone to Vegas to ??? and never returned?

Seth Abboud knew, also. But they wouldn't know if he'd returned or not. They'd only know what he told them, on Sunday morning. Since Steven wasn't "known" to hang out in Vegas, it may have been a wider search to start with. (That darned video hasn't helped a thing!)
It would depend on how long it took to report him "missing" ... and then for his cell phones/accounts to be tracked.

Could have been another week or so.

 

[laytonian]

I wouldn't claim they're identical. But it's the most similar of all the cases we found in the Las Vegas area.

...and we didn't "find" it until it was solved :banghead:

I need to add Rosholt's case to "similar cases", because it does fit.

I'm starting to think age doesn't matter as much as marital status.

 

[Fairy1]

17 months to find Rosholt's car? I guess I've not been paying attention.
I thought it was four months (last used credit card on Jan 19th, car found at Silverton Casino on April 19th).

Sorry - I totally misread your post from a couple of days ago. Still - four months is a long time.

But I don't think we can count on parking lot security; not when the missing woman in Albuquerque's car was ticketed three times, with her body inside -- and it should have been ticked each day of the 8 days she was missing.

This ain't Albuquerque and any casino security should be trained to spot that sort of thing.

I don't. Steven hadn't returned LL's calls at all, even a week before he was missing. He wasn't calling *anyone* back.

And you don't think that was unusual? The holidays were fast approaching and LL wanted his money.

Seth Abboud knew, also. It would depend on how long it took to report him "missing" ... and then for his cell phones/accounts to be tracked.

Could have been another week or so.

We can really only speculate on that. It went down the way it did and here we still are.

I'm very much looking forward to you making the drive to where Steven's car was found. I've done it and I'm convinced it wasn't random.

Also looking forward to your seeing the entire Anthem area and the foothills.

Can you come tomorrow?

 

[Fairy1]

...and we didn't "find" it until it was solved :banghead:

I need to add Rosholt's case to "similar cases", because it does fit.

I'm starting to think age doesn't matter as much as marital status.

Outside of the fact they were both unmarried males who went missing in this area, how are they similar?

Rosholt was a gambler and his reason for being here is known. He was also an avid hiker and Red Rock Canyon is a popular area for hikers of all levels. His remains were found in an especially rugged area.

What am I not seeing here?

 

[laytonian]

Outside of the fact they were both unmarried males who went missing in this area, how are they similar?

Rosholt was a gambler and his reason for being here is known. He was also an avid hiker and Red Rock Canyon is a popular area for hikers of all levels. His remains were found in an especially rugged area.

What am I not seeing here?

Until Rosholt's remains were found, who'd have thought to look in Red Rock?

Could be the same with Steven.

 

[Fairy1]

Until Rosholt's remains were found, who'd have thought to look in Red Rock?

Could be the same with Steven.

For the sake of argument, let's say it makes sense for a hiker to walk from the Silverton to Red Rock. Those who knew Rosholt knew he was an avid hiker and I don't think we really know if anyone ever looked for him there.

But he was found in a very treacherous area. Even retrieving his remains was difficult.

Do we have any reason to believe Steven came here to go hiking or to gamble? He couldn't have been further away from Red Rock. Couldn't he have gone hiking somewhere closer to home?

I would venture to say not many folks who live in southern Utah would go to Anthem for a hiking expedition. And it doesn't strike me as something to which a friend would say, "do what you have to do."

 

[laytonian]

For the sake of argument, let's say it makes sense for a hiker to walk from the Silverton to Red Rock. Those who knew Rosholt knew he was an avid hiker and I don't think we really know if anyone ever looked for him there.
But he was found in a very treacherous area. Even retrieving his remains was difficult.

Do we have any reason to believe Steven came here to go hiking? He couldn't have been further away from Red Rock.

...but he was surrounded by foothills on three sides when he parked -- right?

For all we know, he could have walked up EL because he thought it would lead him to those foothills. It's about a 1.5 hour walk, to the west or east, to get out of SCA and into desert hills. If he went east, that would explain the cell tower hits.

Fun with maps:
A is where the car was parked;
drag the B in any direction.

He could have walked to the Whitney Ranch area in 3.5 hours, which also fits the cell phone hits.

 

[Fairy1]

...but he was surrounded by foothills on three sides when he parked -- right?

No - that is not what I've seen.

For all we know, he could have walked up EL because he thought it would lead him to those foothills. It's about a 1.5 hour walk, to the west or east, to get out of SCA and into desert hills. If he went east, that would explain the cell tower hits.

No - the direction he walked was the opposite of the foothills - but toward the golf course, which is very rugged - as far as golf courses go.

I need for you to see this area with your own eyeballs. Whitney Ranch IS in the direction Steven was seen walking on the video. Still, if that was where he was planning to go, his parking spot was odd and doesn't make any sense to me at all.

You will see, my friend.

Fun with maps:
A is where the car was parked;
drag the B in any direction[/b].

He could have walked to the Whitney Ranch area in 3.5 hours, which also fits the cell phone hits.

I can't bring up the map.

 

[laytonian]

No - that is not what I've seen.

No - the direction he walked was the opposite of the foothills - but toward the golf course, which is very rugged - as far as golf courses go.

I need for you to see this area with your own eyeballs. Whitney Ranch IS in the direction Steven was seen walking on the video. Still, if that was where he was planning to go, his parking spot was odd and doesn't make any sense to me at all.

You will see, my friend.

I can't bring up the map.

Sorry. You can, now:

drag the B in any direction.

When I go there, I want to go in "cold"....like I've never been there, KWIM?

I know what the end result will look like (behind a sound wall)...but I want to see what the "gettin' there" looks like, and what choices would be made -- map or no map.

 

[Fairy1]

Sorry. You can, now:

drag the B in any direction.

When I go there, I want to go in "cold"....like I've never been there, KWIM?

I know what the end result will look like (behind a sound wall)...but I want to see what the "gettin' there" looks like, and what choices would be made -- map or no map.

Thank you!

Have you ever been there? Both times I've been there, I've gone in from the other direction - off of Eastern.

The traffic along Anthem Parkway moves at a VERY brisk pace and if you didn't know exactly where you were going you would, most likely, have to flip a u-ey and double back.

You may recall, on my last trip there, I called you and you led me to a neighborhood from which we thought we could get to the foothills. But it didn't work! It was nothing but more and more houses - built higher and higher.

I readily admit, I have a horrific sense of direction. But Whitney Ranch or foothills - where Steven parked that car makes no sense at all.

 

[seekingsusan]

Sorry. You can, now:

drag the B in any direction.

When I go there, I want to go in "cold"....like I've never been there, KWIM?

I know what the end result will look like (behind a sound wall)...but I want to see what the "gettin' there" looks like, and what choices would be made -- map or no map.

Has this trip planned??? For when?

 

[Fairy1]

Has this trip planned??? For when?

That's entirely up to laytonian - I'm already here! Will you come too?

 

[shefner]

I know he checked out clear, but you will never convince me that GW and Steven did not discuss why they both had been in LV......unless it was already known.

 

[sbakker]

I know he checked out clear, but you will never convince me that GW and Steven did not discuss why they both had been in LV......unless it was already known.

Oh, I so agree with you. It needs to be checked out again!

 

[webrocket]

Oh, I so agree with you. It needs to be checked out again!

by whom?

if GW has not opened up by now about why HE was in Vegas or if he knew why Steven was in Vegas, he's not all of a sudden going to speak up.

given the cultural quirks of the people involved, I think there is alot of don't ask, don't tell and I'm not referring to just homosexuality.

there are many things Mormons are not supposed to do - drink, smoke, gamble, etc. so no one asks what people are up to because they don't really want to know.

why else would men, particularly young single ones (but not limited to that group) go to Vegas? they go to gamble, drink, maybe pick up some casual sex and go home. that's why none of these people asked one another what they were doing in Vegas.

 

[hollyblue]

Thought this story was interesting and thought of Steven's case. This case is listed on WS also.

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/article/20101106/NEWS01/11060316/Man-presumed-dead-charged