Was a stun gun used in the crime or not

[Camper]

Well stun gun is not in MY theory. The title of this thread, which I did not start, questions the use of a stun gun, it does not purport to believe totally that a stun gun was used.

So IF IF on the link you provided, how coincidental would it have been to get two different sets of marks caused by falling and hitting oneself exactly on the corner of the loom, shown nearly at the bottom of the page of the link you provided.

I do believe there would have been distinct puncture wounds, if JonBenet fell for instance from her bed. Since the autopsy report does not mention puncture wounds, I can only surmise that there were no puncture wounds.

It was a busy night at the Ramsey home. Knowledge of what exactly happened is known by one or more of the Ramseys, IMOP.



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[aRnd2it]

It would be difficult to believe she fell face first onto a loom,

There isn't a mark on her face that even looks like a stun gun mark. Stun guns have TWO contact points, there is only ONE mark on her face. I remember when they thought a second white mark on her face was a matching mark. That mark, was clearly visable in a different photograph as dried mucus.

And NO sissi, I don't believe the lies from that other forum that say the other contact point was on top of the electrical tape. There was no burn mark on the tape to support that myth.


"Beckner said he is familiar with Smit's theory that a stun gun was used on JonBenet. "I can say, we have evidence to the contrary," Beckner said."

 

[Jayelles]

There isn't a mark on her face that even looks like a stun gun mark. Stun guns have TWO contact points, there is only ONE mark on her face. I remember when they thought a second white mark on her face was a matching mark. That mark, was clearly visable in a different photograph as dried mucus.

And NO sissi, I don't believe the lies from that other forum that say the other contact point was on top of the electrical tape. There was no burn mark on the tape to support that myth.


"Beckner said he is familiar with Smit's theory that a stun gun was used on JonBenet. "I can say, we have evidence to the contrary," Beckner said."

It doesn't make sense that the second stungun prong landed on the duct tape. Here's why:-

There was a perfect lip print on the duct tape which suggested that it was applied when she was unconscious or dead. Had she been alive, there would have been a different kind of lip print - smudged presumably? Why stungun her when she is already unconscious or even dead? Surely the purpose of stunning her would be to cause pain or to disable?

The only solution IMO that would fit both scenarios is that there were TWO pieces of duct tape. The first masked one of the stungun prongs and had a smudged lip print because she was alive and wriggling - but it came off and the killer applied a second piece after she was dead "for effect".

 

[aRnd2it]

The only solution IMO that would fit both scenarios is that there were TWO pieces of duct tape. The first masked one of the stungun prongs and had a smudged lip print because she was alive and wriggling - but it came off and the killer applied a second piece after she was dead "for effect".

Jayelles,
The only problem with the second piece of duct tape theory is that the tape would have insulated the electrical shock and the device wouldn't have worked. Stun guns have to be applied to bare skin. They don't work through clothing (or tape).

 

[Jayelles]

Jayelles,
The only problem with the second piece of duct tape theory is that the tape would have insulated the electrical shock and the device wouldn't have worked. Stun guns have to be applied to bare skin. They don't work through clothing (or tape).

I'm not sre if I'm understanding you .. or if you are understanding me. Do you mean that the stungun wouldn't work of BOTH prongs landed on duct tape - or would one prong being insulated be enough to prevent it working?

When I suggested the second piece of duct tape, I meant as a replacement for the first - not additionally.

 

[BlueCrab]

Ruthee's demonstration of the "stun gun" marks made by a toy loom just doesn't make any sense. According to her photos, she uses two prongs on the corner of the square loom and presses them against her arm to produce the tiny rectangular marks she says match the stun gun marks on JonBenet. That's impossible. If the marks were made by the two prongs on the corner of the loom, they would be at 90 degrees to one another, not parallel to one another as are the marks on JonBenet.

JMO

 

[BlueCrab]

Jayelles,
The only problem with the second piece of duct tape theory is that the tape would have insulated the electrical shock and the device wouldn't have worked. Stun guns have to be applied to bare skin. They don't work through clothing (or tape).

Rnd2,

Sorry, but you are wrong. Stun guns work just fine through clothing, even several layers of winter clothing. Please scroll up to Lt. and Mrs. Kat's posts on this thread. Lt. Kat states, as a test, he was stungunned through his heavy police uniform, and it was the most painful thing he had ever experienced.

And there are times when only one prong touches the body, but the gun still works. The difference in the appearance of the two marks is significant though, as was JonBenet's face injuries from the stun gun. When Gerald Boggs was stungunned and murdered and his body exhumed to prove that he had been stungunned, his facial injuries from the stun gun were almost identical to JonBenet's facial injuries.

JMO

 

[aRnd2it]

BlueCrab,
Sorry, but you're talking about the Air Taser Dart model which fires darts with barbed points that penetrate through clothing.

YEARS ago the instructions for the basic Taser model were posted and they clearly said it was normally ineffective through clothing and should be applied directly to the skin.

You can probably find those same instructions online if you search for them.

Forgetaboutit, the stun gun is a big hoax. Read the quote from Beckner.

 

[Camper]

8 years later we are all still going around in circles, cutting square corners like the loom has.

Years ago I was rather fond of suggesting folks do a home test on things that I had observed. Strangely, was it Ned who put his daughter in a suitcase, to see how the 'fit' was.

Guess the stun gun would still work if you used it on yourself, so have at it. Also if you could perform the tricky 'fall on the loom corners only' routine, I would be interested in those personal results.

I also defy ANYONE to rip off a piece of duct tape without leaving some forensic part of yourself on the sticky side. Perhaps you all are handier doing that than I have ever been. Hmmm.

I believe JonBenet left her room by being carried by a loved one, or coaxed to come by a loved one. I do also believe that IF IF IF a stun gun were used on her it would have been in the basement area.



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[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,
Sorry, but you're talking about the Air Taser Dart model which fires darts with barbed points that penetrate through clothing.

Rnd2,

Sorry my friend, but handheld or using darts, the Taser's electrical current can penetrate clothing, as can other handheld stun guns.

The darts on Lt. Kat's police uniform (in the posts earlier on this thread) were attached on the OUTSIDE of his uniform prior to tasing him during the tests. The darts did not penetrate his uniform for the tests, but still shocked the hell out of him.

Incidentally, the Air Taser can be used both ways, either as a stun gun that shoots darts attached to the gun by 21-foot long wires, or as a conventional stun gun that can be jammed against a person and the trigger pulled.


JMO

 

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab, or anyone refresh my memory, there were marks on her cheek, which could have been the FIRST hit. Then where were the other two sets, on the back ? ?, which could mean she fell after the first hit, then hits on the back ??, I seem to be remembering that the other two sets were on her back?? Help me out here cuz my memory is dim at this moment.

Camper,

There were THREE sets of injuries on JonBenet that appear to be stun gun hits. All three had the familiar tiny twin rectangular marks that were measured by the coroner, John Meyer, and later verified by him to be consistent with stun gun injuries.

The injuries were on the right cheek, just below the ear; on the left lower back; and on the back of the left lower leg, near the ankle.

The ugliest burn was on her cheek, probably because the gun was held against her face there the longest (the longer the trigger is held, the more severe is the burn). The cleanest and therefore the easiest to measure and examine was on her back. And the faintest and least talked about was the one on her lower leg.

All three injuries are described in detail in the autopsy report.

JMO

 

[KATKAT19691]

Jayelles,
The only problem with the second piece of duct tape theory is that the tape would have insulated the electrical shock and the device wouldn't have worked. Stun guns have to be applied to bare skin. They don't work through clothing (or tape).

yes they do work through clothing.

imo
kat

 

[BlueCrab]

Here's a classic example of Patsy dramatically playing low I.Q. when it comes to stun guns:

John and Patsy had been in Miami and had entered a store by the name of Spy World. They had obviously talked to the clerk about stun guns because they walked out of the store carrying a video about stun guns. It was the same stun gun video the cops found in the house after JonBenet was murdered.

During the 1998 interviews Patsy was being shown crime scene photos and asked to comment on them.

TOM HANEY: "Can you identify what that is?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Someone with a flashlight?"

TOM HANEY: "Actually, that is a stun gun."

..........

PATSY RAMSEY: "And I never have had one or seen one. First time I had seen one. What, what -- how -- which end is this gun? I mean, it don't look like a gun or anything."

TRIP DEMUTH: "But do you recall inside the house a video from Spy World?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "I've heard that, yes. I have never seen the video. I have never viewed the video."

JMO

 

[Camper]

Well 'double duh, with dust on it'.

BC do you happen to know the DATE when they visited the Spy shop?

I can hear it now, "Yes I am in management of a very large company $$, and this could be helpful, owning a stun gun, harumph. You lika video show how gun works, ya, sure, here ya go. If you like order just use this method, yada yada".
Bethcha someone in blue jeans, and no warning about their status would not come out of that store with a 'How to Video'. I am guessing, but having been in business you do not pass out expense items on a whim.

So I am now betting that the 'missing Christmas video' has a picture of SOMEONE unwrapping a stun gun. Yep, I am guessing.

So the head blow was to divert attention from the use of a stun gun, ya think? Hey the Lord says, All things are possible, to those who love the Lord.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, I am leaving the computer world and heading for some serious family fun and eating. I didn't get to cook the turkey this year. Hee hee.

:chicken:



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[BlueCrab]

BC do you happen to know the DATE when they visited the Spy shop?

I am guessing, but having been in business you do not pass out expense items on a whim.

So I am now betting that the 'missing Christmas video' has a picture of SOMEONE unwrapping a stun gun. Yep, I am guessing.

Camper,

Your hypothesis about the traditional but missing Xmas morning video showing someone unwrapping a stun gun as a Xmas present is beginning to make more sense to me now. It appears highly possible.

Why would the Spy World clerk give the Ramseys an expensive video if there hadn't been some serious discussion about buying the stun gun? If they weren't serious about making a purchase, a cheap pamphlet on the stun gun would have been sufficient.

I don't know the date of the Ramsey's visit to Spy World in Miami. Judging from the cop's interest in the stun gun video and other questions in the the interviews, it was probably in 1996.

A gift of a stun gun from Patsy to John would make sense under the circumstances. And if not a stun gun, what DID Patsy give John as a gift for Xmas that year?

JMO

 

[Sprocket]

Ah, the mystery (~never found; no evidence of a purchase ever produced~) stun gun discussion again.

Yawn.

Lou Snit had a dream. D or a good imagination which ever you prefer! ) And it exploded to outrageous porportions.

But keep beating the imaginary horse, if you like.

 

[sissi]

I believe it was a security tape, and included all levels of possibilities on how to protect yourself and property, the stun gun was just an element within this tape, not, as some think, an instructional video. I would expect THAT! Yep, if they purchased a stun gun I would expect an instructional video on how to operate a particular brand. Burke would remember if a video was taken that morning, kids usually remember being taped. One of their video cameras was missing, they thought perhaps a "worker" took it during some project .JMO, (my oven isn't calibrated right and I'm a bit testy today)

 

[BlueCrab]

Ah, the mystery (~never found; no evidence of a purchase ever produced~) stun gun discussion again.

Yawn.

Lou Snit had a dream. D or a good imagination which ever you prefer! ) And it exploded to outrageous porportions.

But keep beating the imaginary horse, if you like.

Sprocket,

The three injuries on JonBenet, identified as consistent with stun gun injuries by almost every certified forensic pathologist who studied the autopsy report and the photos, are not imaginary. They exist.

The weight of the evidence is that JonBenet was stungunned.

Please provide one item of evidence to the contrary, and I'll be happy to respond to you about it. Thanks.

JMO

 

[sissi]

I believe there were three sets of marks,as well, but not being very brave, without having my source at hand I didn't post it. On this issue BC you are correct. IMO

 

[Sprocket]

Sprocket,

The three injuries on JonBenet, identified as consistent with stun gun injuries by almost every certified forensic pathologist who studied the autopsy report and the photos, are not imaginary. They exist.

The weight of the evidence is that JonBenet was stungunned.

Please provide one item of evidence to the contrary, and I'll be happy to respond to you about it. Thanks.

JMO

Tricia already posted it. You chose to ignore it.