What do the profilers say?

[aussiesheila]

It is like everyone will excuse everything and have a rational for it. This is more simpler to me.

But concernedperson, I am being serious. I am not medically trained, but I think that if an individual had an infected or diseased thyroid, then they would be hospitalised or under some form of medical treatment. If someone know for sure that this is not so then please correct me.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

An unusually-designed ligature around the neck with a stick handle on the end of it, and a ligature tying the hands together at the wrists and positioned over the head, is classic bondage in my language.

BlueCrab

...one in which the action of the arms in an effort to remove the tightening cord around the neck has the reverse affect of tightening each time efforts are made to remove it.

The second ligature is too long to have only been used to bind the wrists together. The second ligature could have been strung with the garrote, and this may have allowed the perp to control JBR during her kidnapping, assault, and murder.

The second ligature has three loops, so it seems likely that three of her limbs were bound. So JBR wasn't just 'bound' or 'tied up' by the garrote/second ligature. She was more likely controlled and murdered by it. I'm not sure that qualifies as 'classic bondage' where the willingness and the motives of those using it are completely different.

 

[BlueCrab]

The second ligature is too long to have only been used to bind the wrists together.

Holdontoyourhat,

Correct. It appears the separate cord for the neck ligature and the separate cord for the wrist ligature at one time were one length of cord. There are frayed ends on each of the two pieces.

I think John could have found JonBenet grotesquely strung up and sexually posed much earlier in the morning and cut her down, creating the two separate lengths of cord. She would have then been relocated, wrapped papoose-style, and placed peacefully in the wine cellar.

One of the obvious goals for the staging would have been to cover up the sexual aspects of the crime (wiping down the body to remove evidence, redressing her in clean underwear, and writing a fake ransom note). These behaviors and the Ramsey coverup points a guilty finger toward a Ramsey family member.

BlueCrab

 

[BlueCrab]

So why do you think it was not used on the night of her death, BlueCrab?

aussiesheila,

If erotic asphyxiation had been taking place, padding probably HAD been used prior to things going bad. But padding would only help prevent visual circumferential marks on the neck; padding would not prevent an accidental strangulation.

The severe tightening of the ligature, sinking the cord deep into JonBenet's skin, IMO was a part of the staging to make the accidental strangulation look like a garroting, the work of a fiendish foreign terrorist -- as was the bash in the head.

BlueCrab

 

[BlueCrab]

Bluecrab, I cannot see that the hair is entwined IN the knot. Couldn't it just be entwined over and above the knot and entwined around the stick? I am not arguing with you. I am just asking you are you sure you can tell from the photo that the hair is within the knot?


EDIT: this was posted soon after BlueCrab's post 369. But I deleted and reposted it so it has gotten out of order

aussiesheila,

No, I am not sure. But after studying the photo it appears the hair is indeed entwined in the knot on the stick. However, photos can play tricks since they are only two-dimensional.

In the past I had theorized the hair was caught in the knot due to the extreme pulling of the cord during the staging, pulling the hair in as the knot tightened. But this was an assumption based on the knot being loosely tied. Now I'm not sure that was the case.

BlueCrab

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,

If erotic asphyxiation had been taking place, padding probably HAD been used prior to things going bad. But padding would only help prevent visual circumferential marks on the neck; padding would not prevent an accidental strangulation.

The severe tightening of the ligature, sinking the cord deep into JonBenet's skin, IMO was a part of the staging to make the accidental strangulation look like a garroting, the work of a fiendish foreign terrorist -- as was the bash in the head.

BlueCrab

Oh I think I understand what you mean BlueCrab. The young men who were involved in your supposed EA sessions with JonBenet mostly used padding around her neck under the rope, but after they accidentally strangled her, that for the coverup, John and/or Patsy removed the padding then pulled that rope so tightly that it cut into her skin and even made it bleed.

Is this what you think happened BlueCrab?

 

[BlueCrab]

Oh I think I understand what you mean BlueCrab. The young men who were involved in your supposed EA sessions with JonBenet mostly used padding around her neck under the rope, but after they accidentally strangled her, that for the coverup, John and/or Patsy removed the padding then pulled that rope so tightly that it cut into her skin and even made it bleed.

Is this what you think happened BlueCrab?

aussiesheila,

Not quite. I doubt that John or Patsy killed JonBenet, nor were they involved in the gory aspects of the staging. It's beyond what a parent would likely be able to do to his or her own child. However, IMO the parents inherited the situation and decided to continue what had already been mostly accomplished by others. Why continue? IMO a family member was probably involved and the parents had little time left and few options available other than to go along with what had already been started.

BlueCrab

 

[KatherineQ]

Bluecrab - even if you believe that of one of the parents, that they would lose their minds and change from their normally functioning mainstream person into a warped persona, and act so out of character as to "go along" with someone who has brutally murdered their precious daughter, why would you think they would BOTH behave so bizarrely and out of character?

To think that Burke had something to do with this adult sexual behavior is beyond believability.

Do you think BOTH of those normal, functioning parents would "go along" and cover up this heinous murder for an outside more distant relative?

 

[BlueCrab]

Bluecrab - even if you believe that of one of the parents, that they would lose their minds and change from their normally functioning mainstream person into a warped persona, and act so out of character as to "go along" with someone who has brutally murdered their precious daughter, why would you think they would BOTH behave so bizarrely and out of character?

To think that Burke had something to do with this adult sexual behavior is beyond believability.

Do you think BOTH of those normal, functioning parents would "go along" and cover up this heinous murder for an outside more distant relative?

Katherine,

As you may know, most of my BDI theories revolve around the likelihood that a fifth person was in the house that night, let in by a Ramsey, and that fifth person could be the killer.

Yes, I believe the parents would go along and cover for a relative or a close friend of the family, if BR was also involved. This would be particularly likely if the parents were "not sure" which one actually did it, and don't want to know. Not knowing for sure would provide them a small measure of hope.


BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

AFTER all this time I had another thought. I must explain that my mind is in the process of leaving my body, age you know.


Subject: Blue Crabs fifth person

I will change names in my fairy tale here, the young college aged Ramsey son will be called Chester.

Chester was eating Christmas pie Christmas Day with the folks in GA = alibi - (ok he ate there)

Then the movie Christmas Day with his buddies am I right? All had ticket stubs.
So one person could have purchased three tickets then passed em out to the other two friends

Wonder if the ticket stubs are still in the evidence room, bet they are not OR were never there!!! Iin the back of my mind I am thinking destroyed fingerprints, but most importantly the shape of the stubs! Each of three guys NO MATTER who bought the tickets, when they were finally distributed to the other two guys, would have different bends etc in the individual stubs and fibers from the clothes they were wearing) too late now right UNLESS the stubs are in custody of BPD!!!

Ok so Chester ate, and as MJenn and I figured out it was TOTALLY possible that Chester was able to come to Boulder via someone elses plane, and vamoose via JR's private plane. It was total flim flam about where each of those three young men slept on Christmas Day night.

Remember that the pilot that was to take them to MPLS, was NOT available at the NORMAL take off time, he called JR later in the morn, and JR asked "When will the plane be ready", huh. This still bothers me a Great big bunch Why wouldn't the plane STILL have been ready from the early morning departure time??

SO the GA family knew that Chester ATE there Christmas Day. The only people who knew Chester was 'possibly not in town the rest of the night' would have to have been his two friends, and the Boulder family, plus the pilot who imop flew Chester back to GA.

This could explain why the plane was not ready because pilot was BUSY flying Chester back to GA in yet another plane that was not under question by LE.

IF you figure that Chester flew out of GA AFTER dinner, say at what time, (what time was the dinner in GA - Christmas Day night, 8 pm, 7pm, 6 pm?? then back to GA.

IF Chester bolted from dinner directly to meet his two friends, who had come in ONE car. Movie friend jumped out of his car got in Chesters car and went to the movie. Chester got in car with friend who had the 'plane' connection, and boom they were on their way to Colorado. The movie goer did the story involving the whereabouts of Chesters car, on where it went and how come.

There was time to make the trip.

Help me out here Blue Crab and whomever else that wants to jump in.

Keep in mind the JR's sooped up personal plane was sold at a major discount to the family pilot soon after for money JR said was needed for legal expenses.

OH and be sure and point out any errors in my 'mental' recollections.



.

 

[tipper]

FWIW his mother took him and his sister to the airport in GA. Came across that recently but can't remember where. As usual it was while I was looking for something else.

I think when they stand a plane down they drain the gas out so you don't have a bunch of potential explosions parked out next to each other.

 

[Camper]

FWIW his mother took him and his sister to the airport in GA. Came across that recently but can't remember where. As usual it was while I was looking for something else.

I think when they stand a plane down they drain the gas out so you don't have a bunch of potential explosions parked out next to each other.

------------He could not have gotten more than an hour or two of sleep in GA, but he could have slept on the plane back to GA from Boulder, if my fairy thoughts are correct.

Like to see a picture of him when he boarded the plane the morning his mom and sis were at the airport for their official trip to MPLS.

So IF the plane were ready to take off at the appointed early hour, the pilot should have had the plane ready at that time, duh. IF it was not ready at 10AM, something is fishy in my book of wonderment. WE and the BPD donut know when the personal plane was ACTUALLY READY FOR WHATEVER.

Additionally, IF the plane were ready at the early hour, we have some muddled information about who was where and when they were there, WHEREVER there was. Since the pilot was not available when JR called at the early hour, when did the pilot GO to the airport to prep the flight, and WHEN did he stand down the flight, and HOW LONG does it take to drain the fuel, and WHEN did the pilot start to re fuel ERRRRRR did he?

PLUS how fuddled would the pilot have been when he was draining and refueling at the same time, my hed hurts, help me out here.

I keep forgetting whatever it was that I thought that I knew.



.
.

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,

Not quite. I doubt that John or Patsy killed JonBenet, nor were they involved in the gory aspects of the staging. It's beyond what a parent would likely be able to do to his or her own child. However, IMO the parents inherited the situation and decided to continue what had already been mostly accomplished by others. Why continue? IMO a family member was probably involved and the parents had little time left and few options available other than to go along with what had already been started.

BlueCrab

OK BlueCrab, so you think the ligature cut right into the neck and the bashed in skull was entirely the work of young males, as was the ransom note. Correct?

And the only covering up that John did was wrapping the body and moving it to the cellar?

 

[BlueCrab]

OK BlueCrab, so you think the ligature cut right into the neck and the bashed in skull was entirely the work of young males, as was the ransom note. Correct?

And the only covering up that John did was wrapping the body and moving it to the cellar?

aussiesheila,

It appears to me the ransom note was written by a young male -- perhaps about 14 to 21 years old because of the vocabulary used in it. However, the penmanship could have been that of a much younger person.

The bogus ransom note was likely written after JonBenet was killed. Therefore, in this theory the gruesome staging was the work of the killers trying to make the death look like it was committed by a vicious foreign terrorist and thus match the wording in the ransom note.

IMO John probably found the body after the gruesome part of the staging had been completed and the note written by others. With a Ramsey family member involved, John and Patsy had no choice but to put some finishing touches on the staging; begin lying their asses off; and hope for the best. The coverup continues to this day.

BlueCrab

 

[eve]

aussiesheila,

It appears to me the ransom note was written by a young male -- perhaps about 14 to 21 years old because of the vocabulary used in it. However, the penmanship could have been that of a much younger person.

The bogus ransom note was likely written after JonBenet was killed. Therefore, in this theory the gruesome staging was the work of the killers trying to make the death look like it was committed by a vicious foreign terrorist and thus match the wording in the ransom note.

IMO John probably found the body after the gruesome part of the staging had been completed and the note written by others. With a Ramsey family member involved, John and Patsy had no choice but to put some finishing touches on the staging; begin lying their asses off; and hope for the best. The coverup continues to this day.

BlueCrab

I read here a lot, but unlike on other threads, usually don't post, because I do not know what to think. However, BC, your theories make the most sense to me after all this time. I also think PR and JR are covering up for one or more of their sons, I do not think they murdered their daughter in such a gruesome way. Unless their sons were directly involved, I do not believe they would cover up. And unless they were covering up, I can't see the reason for the lies and evasive manuevers.

I have always thought the older son must be involved somehow. His age, the suggestion of chronic abuse of JBR, the wording of the RN, the suitcase, blanket (semen) and Dr. Seuss book, among other things, make me think this is a possibility. I still have a hard time with BR as the lone perp. He was so young, I just can't buy it.

Eve

 

[aussiesheila]

IMO John probably found the body after the gruesome part of the staging had been completed and the note written by others. With a Ramsey family member involved, John and Patsy had no choice but to put some finishing touches on the staging; begin lying their asses off; and hope for the best. The coverup continues to this day.

BlueCrab

So BlueCrab,

You are saying that you think John knew about the ransom note which one of the young males had written and had read it as well?

How can you explain John being part of a coverup for which such an absurd ransom note had been written?

 

[BlueCrab]

So BlueCrab,

How can you explain John being part of a coverup for which such an absurd ransom note had been written?

aussiesheila,

John Ramsey was forced to play the cards he was dealt; childish-sounding ransom note and all.

BlueCrab

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,

It appears to me the ransom note was written by a young male -- perhaps about 14 to 21 years old because of the vocabulary used in it. However, the penmanship could have been that of a much younger person.

The bogus ransom note was likely written after JonBenet was killed. Therefore, in this theory the gruesome staging was the work of the killers trying to make the death look like it was committed by a vicious foreign terrorist and thus match the wording in the ransom note.

IMO John probably found the body after the gruesome part of the staging had been completed and the note written by others. With a Ramsey family member involved, John and Patsy had no choice but to put some finishing touches on the staging; begin lying their asses off; and hope for the best. The coverup continues to this day.

BlueCrab

Thanks for the explanation BlueCrab, it's gradually becoming clearer.

But the ransom note written by the young males in your scenario - it was pretty absurd wasn't it BlueCrab? Now come on, you have to admit it, in fact it was totally ridiculous.

You are not going to try to get me to believe that a mature highly intelligent man like John Ramsey would go along with such a note, are you? Really, if John was going to go along with a coverup he would have made sure a more believeable ransom note was written such as the hate note originally proposed by Holdontoyourhat, now wouldn't he? Be honest now.

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,

John Ramsey was forced to play the cards he was dealt; childish-sounding ransom note and all.

BlueCrab

What do you mean? 'forced to play the cards he was dealt'? I cannot see any reason why he was forced to go along with the childish-sounding ransom note. How can you claim this?

 

[aussiesheila]

As distasteful as the discussion of whether or not JonBenet was sexually abused is, it is a key component to this entire murder. It was going on at the time she died, and there is evidence to support that it had been going on before she died. The strangulation gives every indication of being directly tied in with sexual abuse.

Yes Nuisanceposter, I absolutely, totally agree.