Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[sunshineray]

No matter what, he doesn't look like the YBG (eyes, chin and all). IMO

I think he does, especially his eyes/brows and nose look dead on to me.

 

[sunshineray]

The easiest explanation of how BG did it, how he would even dare try, is that he carried a kidnap kit and had a plan.

A gun and a knife. The first to control, the second to kill. He used the gun to make them vulnerable, quiet and to make them obey...then the knife, a simple plan. The thing that gets me is Abby being redressed. He'd probably killed Libby first and cruely told Abby to dress again making her think she might live...such evilness. Just some thoughts </3

 

[Ravenmoon]

A gun and a knife. The first to control, the second to kill. He used the gun to make them vulnerable, quiet and to make them obey...then the knife, a simple plan. The thing that gets me is Abby being redressed. He'd probably killed Libby first and cruely told Abby to dress again making her think she might live...such evilness. Just some thoughts </3

Is it possible that when DC, at the 2019 PC stated, "I believe that you have just a little conscience left", that it was partially due to the fact that AW was redressed?

I have heard in past cases that "covering" a body can be a sign of regret.

If we are to believe that the FM was even partially factual, poor AW died a slow death. I wonder if the original assault on this little child was initially intended to silence her, incapacitate her, until he finished with LG.

Is it possible that he had other plans for AW?

Just wondering. Speculation only.

 

[schooling]

I'd say paganism has about a .0000000000000001% chance of being involved

Really?

How did you arrive at such a high number?

Jk.

 

[Charlot123]

I am a little confused with your post.

Why would it be necessary to convince or persuade the public that they ( ISP) have the right person?

I also don't understand DC and his lunch dates,?

Please help me to understand.

About the lunches/dinners.

DC is dealing with countless cases of child abuse and CSAM produced in the state. And then, during the Delphi active investigation, he openly spoke about monthly meetings with a retired FBI agent. The said agent's retirement is directly involved with mishandling the probe into the gymnastics scandal.

FBI Agents Who ‘Mishandled’ Larry Nassar Investigation Will Not Face Charges, DOJ Says

Two FBI agents accused of bungling an investigation into former Olympics doctor Larry Nassar will not be charged due to insufficient evidence, the Department of Justice announced Thursday.

www.forbes.com

Here is my view: at the stage when your friend's decisions are the subject of conversations and gossips amidst unproven accusations, you can choose to keep a friend, as nothing has been proven. But then, comes the phase when your friend has left a job to avoid bigger problems related to mishandling the investigation into adolescent gymnasts abuse. It is in world newspapers. It is in official documents. You, meanwhile, blissfully announce continuing to meet him and the family during the lunch, and discussing the Delphi case. What does it say about your judgment?

A) Bad judgment

B) The conclusion about your friend mentions "patriarchal" attitude, so by publicly announcing meetings with your friend, at best, you advertise yourself are a patriarchal person.

At worst, paraphrasing Aristotle's "Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend" - for some people, friends are better than the truth.

(Keep in mind, I don't criticize DC for having lunches with his friend privately. But his official position is political.)

About who ISP has. For six years, we heard "if you knew what we know", and ultimately, I stopped following the case. It seemed to be scandalous news and no movement. Finally, ISP has arrested someone. To understand whom they arrested, I would like to watch the trial. But it is closed?

I want to watch it.

 

[Charlot123]

Is it possible that when DC, at the 2019 PC stated, "I believe that you have just a little conscience left", that it was partially due to the fact that AW was redressed?

I have heard in past cases that "covering" a body can be a sign of regret.

If we are to believe that the FM was even partially factual, poor AW died a slow death. I wonder if the original assault on this little child was initially intended to silence her, incapacitate her, until he finished with LG.

Is it possible that he had other plans for AW?

Just wondering. Speculation only.

I honestly believe that when LE said that one kid had the chance to escape, but chose not to leave her friend, they mean, Abby. I think for some reason, BG was either very angry with Libby due to some transference, or for some reason, he targeted her.

Either he took all his anger against women on Libby, and had nothing left for Abby, or maybe his psychosis was gone, and he killed Abby as a witness.

 

[Ravenmoon]

About the lunches/dinners.

DC is dealing with countless cases of child abuse and CSAM produced in the state. And then, during the Delphi active investigation, he openly spoke about monthly meetings with a retired FBI agent. The said agent's retirement is directly involved with mishandling the probe into the gymnastics scandal.

FBI Agents Who ‘Mishandled’ Larry Nassar Investigation Will Not Face Charges, DOJ Says

Two FBI agents accused of bungling an investigation into former Olympics doctor Larry Nassar will not be charged due to insufficient evidence, the Department of Justice announced Thursday.

www.forbes.com

Here is my view: at the stage when your friend's decisions are the subject of conversations and gossips amidst unproven accusations, you can choose to keep a friend, as nothing has been proven. But then, comes the phase when your friend has left a job to avoid bigger problems related to mishandling the investigation into adolescent gymnasts abuse. It is in world newspapers. It is in official documents. You, meanwhile, blissfully announce continuing to meet him and the family during the lunch, and discussing the Delphi case. What does it say about your judgment?

A) Bad judgment

B) The conclusion about your friend mentions "patriarchal" attitude, so by publicly announcing meetings with your friend, at best, you advertise yourself are a patriarchal person.

At worst, paraphrasing Aristotle's "Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend" - for some people, friends are better than the truth.

(Keep in mind, I don't criticize DC for having lunches with his friend privately. But his official position is political.)

About who ISP has. For six years, we heard "if you knew what we know", and ultimately, I stopped following the case. It seemed to be scandalous news and no movement. Finally, ISP has arrested someone. To understand whom they arrested, I would like to watch the trial. But it is closed?

I want to watch it.

I think that we all want to see the trial.


As far as DC and his lunch dates, do you have a link for that please?

I have chosen to keep up on the case and honestly don't recall anything concerning DC and his friends.

TIA

 

[WildHuncher]

I honestly believe that when LE said that one kid had the chance to escape, but chose not to leave her friend, they mean, Abby. I think for some reason, BG was either very angry with Libby due to some transference, or for some reason, he targeted her.

Either he took all his anger against women on Libby, and had nothing left for Abby, or maybe his psychosis was gone, and he killed Abby as a witness.

We don’t know for sure how much LE has been able to forensically reconstruct, or what truthful info was in RA’s alleged confessions. The trial may be enlightening if there is one. What happened in the woods is very vague to me.

 

[Charlot123]

I think that we all want to see the trial.


As far as DC and his lunch dates, do you have a link for that please?

I have chosen to keep up on the case and honestly don't recall anything concerning DC and his friends.

TIA

Interestingly, as there were podcasts and interviews

Here is a short one with Jay Abbott. He says, 4 years into Delphi murders so, 2021?

- speaks about Doug Carter remaining a good friend
- speaks about technical help of FBI (great because you see how much forces that case dragged)
- speaks about daily prayers and commitment of LE to solve the case
- finally, speaks about continuous regular meeting between himself, his wife, Doug Carter and Doug's wife during which they discuss Delphi case.

And, btw, one can see that by general education, experience, manner of speech, the way he relates to public, Jay Abbott could be a very good asset to Doug Carter. But, it was 2021. He retired amidst a huge scandal in 2017-2018. No one can blame Doug Carter for his personal choices, but there should have been no discussion of Delphi case. JMO.

 

[snooptroop88]

RSBM

Not trying to debate this theory with you, simply share mine. The reason I do not think this was a random act because, to me, it appears Bridge Guy came prepared. When I study the image of him, I see the outline of a gun, and possibly the outline of a tripod. It also looks as if other items are inside his jacket.

Very curious on the 'white thingy' near his collar. We hear that many men, especially in that area, wear the same type of clothing. However, there are unique features to BG's attire that singles him out, which I believe the witnesses will testify regarding. The hat, the white thing, the tan under his jacket, and the bunched jeans. There certainly could have been other men on the trails that day. But I doubt they were dressed with the same details as I mentioned.

As far as the crime being a pagan ritual, I am aware of nothing to support that theory. Nothing at all. In fact if that were the case there should have been certain pieces of evidence found to support it. To me the CS screams CSAM.

Totally agreed. Not random, and I think he probably targeted these particular victims and expected them there at or around the time they arrived-- but they were in no way aware of it. Any of the small telltale signs of pagan ritual at the CS were left intentionally to mislead LE. They may also coincide with some vague and largely unfocused interest in paganism on the part of the perp.

IMO it wasn’t his first attempt. I think he may have attempted and perhaps been successful before.
I think he walked those trails for months planning this horrific crime and waiting for the right opportunity. I think KA being out of town was necessary to his plan. He needed to pack certain things in his car and come and go from the house without witness.
I believe he carried a kidnap kit and already had dropped off the rest of his tools at the kill site prior to parking and entering the trails. I believe it’s why he drove the long way from the east.

Teenage girls go missing everyday and many are assumed to be runaways.
RA didn’t count on several things: 1) a parent coming to pick up shortly after drop off 2) a victim posting on social media shortly before abduction giving evidence of time, location and proof they weren’t running away from home 3) victim capturing his approach and abduction on video.
I think LE followed the evidence and it took 5 long years but finally led to the right suspect. Someone that was initially overlooked. This is the opposite of a frame job.

all my opinion

I don't think it was his first attempt, either, and I'd be looking for CSs with unusual staging. I think he had at least one first attempt and it was successful. It's all guesswork and jmo, though, until the trial. Maybe once the trial comes, more dots can be connected and we'll finally have some definite answers. Hoping.

 

[Charlot123]

We don’t know for sure how much LE has been able to forensically reconstruct, or what truthful info was in RA’s alleged confessions. The trial may be enlightening if there is one. What happened in the woods is very vague to me.

Someone has to do a study comparing the approach to the results.

I understand the need to keep the details close to the vest to avoid false confessions. It makes sense in the situation when one knows enough.

However, when nothing is known (and I am positive looking at the 2019 PC that ISP had no idea about the personality of BG), does it make sense to not provide any information to the public? Did it ultimately prolong the case?

Also I do question the utility of such a huge reward fund. If we, the moms, would be living next door to the maniac and scared every day, don't you think we'd feel safe knowing he was apprehended? Don't you think we'd cooperate? So why create secondary gain?

I think very rigid approach to all cases doesn't help.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Interestingly, as there were podcasts and interviews

Here is a short one with Jay Abbott. He says, 4 years into Delphi murders so, 2021?

- speaks about Doug Carter remaining a good friend
- speaks about technical help of FBI (great because you see how much forces that case dragged)
- speaks about daily prayers and commitment of LE to solve the case
- finally, speaks about continuous regular meeting between himself, his wife, Doug Carter and Doug's wife during which they discuss Delphi case.

And, btw, one can see that by general education, experience, manner of speech, the way he relates to public, Jay Abbott could be a very good asset to Doug Carter. But, it was 2021. He retired amidst a huge scandal in 2017-2018. No one can blame Doug Carter for his personal choices, but there should have been no discussion of Delphi case. JMO.

He seems to have worked on the case? The FBI was involved for awhile.

I don't see a problem with that?
Maybe I am wrong?


JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Is it possible that when DC, at the 2019 PC stated, "I believe that you have just a little conscience left", that it was partially due to the fact that AW was redressed?

I have heard in past cases that "covering" a body can be a sign of regret.

If we are to believe that the FM was even partially factual, poor AW died a slow death. I wonder if the original assault on this little child was initially intended to silence her, incapacitate her, until he finished with LG.

Is it possible that he had other plans for AW?

Just wondering. Speculation only.

Yes and it also could have been a bit differently done, if true that Abby's clothes had no blood, that she was killed undressed and RA redressed her. You'd think though he'd have left his DNA if that occured. Maybe he did have something that he doused the bodies with? Just more thoughts.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

JH lies, and lies to cover his lies. Sounded like a game of "I know you are...but what am I"?

It's quite simply the most outlandish comeback someone makes when they've completely lost the argument.

WTH? Sounded like little man RA had big boy JH on the ropes lol.

Snipped from article:

“Jerry Holeman: ‘You’re guilty of something. You’re guilty and I know it and I’m gonna (expletive) prove it.’


MOO as per the norm!

Defense files to suppress comments made by Richard Allen on the day of his arrest - Carroll County Comet

Richard Allen’s attorneys say law enforcement failed to read him his Miranda rights on Oct. 26, 2022, during an interrogation at the Indiana State Police Lafayette Post – specifically, any remarks made by Allen during an interrogation by Jerry Holeman. Allen has been charged with two counts of...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[Charlot123]

He seems to have worked on the case? The FBI was involved for awhile.

I don't see a problem with that?
Maybe I am wrong?


JMO

I would like to know when FBI became uninvolved, and who caused it. MOO - I believe that continuation of FBI involvement would have benefited the case. But, J. Abbott retired in February of 2018. In 2021, when he was meeting with Doug Carter, Daily Mail was writing exposes about the case.
Again, all I am questioning is merely the astuteness of Doug Carter. JMO.

 

[grannygates]

I would like to know when FBI became uninvolved, and who caused it. MOO - I believe that continuation of FBI involvement would have benefited the case. But, J. Abbott retired in February of 2018. In 2021, when he was meeting with Doug Carter, Daily Mail was writing exposes about the case.
Again, all I am questioning is merely the astuteness of Doug Carter. JMO.

From what I’ve read, we’ve heard a few stories re:FBI no longer being involved.

We know Click testified that once FBI agent Ferency was murdered by that Corrections officer, he no longer worked on the Delphi case. I don’t recall if he gave a explanation further than the murder? That was July/2021

FBI director: Terre Haute police Detective Greg Ferency did what ‘needed to be done’

TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (AP) — A veteran Indiana police officer who was killed in an ambush outside of an FBI field office last week was a valued member of an

www.wfft.com

March 2022, ISP asked the FBI to remove all of the identifying details from the BG poster.

FBI removing some information from Delphi death investigation posters

The FBI confirmed it's removing some information from the posters involving the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German who were killed in 2017 in Delphi.

www.wrtv.com

I believe in the FM (see edit below) there is mention that DC asked the FBI to step away from the case in 2021 over conflict over investigation strategies. We know the FBI via TC was into the 3rd party suspects and the UC was IMO refusing investigate them. There’s depositions with TL where he says he had no idea the FBI was ever asked to leave the case but that seems to be par for the course in the depos. Everyone’s just stunned.
(Edit: page 10 footnote, in their depos JH says that DC kicked FBI out 2021 due to conflicts, TL says he had no idea that happened)

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

IMO I wonder if the FBI actually did withdraw themselves from investigating the case entirely and I wonder if we will see FBI agents testify at trial and for which side. There was another agent who penned the RL PCA back in 2017, so I also wonder how long she stayed on the case and continued investigating.

ALL MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

YBG may have been LE's way to try and bring in A_Shots account. All of those pictures, to varying degrees, easily look like RA to me, the nose, the shape of the face, the eyes.

His hair and goatee may change a quick glance at RA, but not the overall basic facial structure to me. I wish we could superimpose all of these photos together.

JMO

bbm
Yes, I would also wish, we could line up the sketches/photos. BUT if the specific man, who looks like sketch #2 = YBG, is not included "for reasons", cough cough, then the same discussion as always would follow. Nothing won, unfortunately. MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I think LE followed the evidence and it took 5 long years but finally led to the right suspect. Someone that was initially overlooked. This is the opposite of a frame job.

all my opinion

Snipped for focus:

I agree. I think defence attorneys are becoming good at spinning conspiracies out of the real failings of law enforcement and prosecution.

e.g we know way too many DAs offices engage in discovery violations - some bad. That doesn't mean they are covering for the "real killer".

e.g. we know in run of the mill cases involving unsophisticated defendants constitutional rights might get violated - but that does not mean LE are framing people in high profile cases which get high scrutiny.

Indeed the history of this case - RL, KAK, EF etc, indicates that they did not in fact look to fit up suspects

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

From what I’ve read, we’ve heard a few stories re:FBI no longer being involved.

We know Click testified that once FBI agent Ferency was murdered by that Corrections officer, he no longer worked on the Delphi case. I don’t recall if he gave a explanation further than the murder? That was July/2021

FBI director: Terre Haute police Detective Greg Ferency did what ‘needed to be done’

TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (AP) — A veteran Indiana police officer who was killed in an ambush outside of an FBI field office last week was a valued member of an

www.wfft.com

March 2022, ISP asked the FBI to remove all of the identifying details from the BG poster.

FBI removing some information from Delphi death investigation posters

The FBI confirmed it's removing some information from the posters involving the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German who were killed in 2017 in Delphi.

www.wrtv.com

I believe in the FM (see edit below) there is mention that DC asked the FBI to step away from the case in 2021 over conflict over investigation strategies. We know the FBI via TC was into the 3rd party suspects and the UC was IMO refusing investigate them. There’s depositions with TL where he says he had no idea the FBI was ever asked to leave the case but that seems to be par for the course in the depos. Everyone’s just stunned.
(Edit: page 10 footnote, in their depos JH says that DC kicked FBI out 2021 due to conflicts, TL says he had no idea that happened)

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

IMO I wonder if the FBI actually did withdraw themselves from investigating the case entirely and I wonder if we will see FBI agents testify at trial and for which side. There was another agent who penned the RL PCA back in 2017, so I also wonder how long she stayed on the case and continued investigating.

ALL MOO

The FBI is not going to stay indefinitely on a case, especially if there are disagreements in the operational strategies. They were actively involved from Feb 2017 until 2021. That's 4 years, a very long time. I'm sure personalities and opinions did vary, and if no substantial, active leads were continuing to come in, their time and $$$ would have been spent elsewhere.

I don't believe the D''s FM or Click's interpretations because of the flat out misleading of some of the information. Nor do I believe we'll be seeing any FBI agents testifying on the behalf of the Defense, possibly for the State though, so the D will have the opportunity to cross. Oh boy, that will interesting to say the least.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

The FBI is not going to stay indefinitely on a case, especially if there are disagreements in the operational strategies. They were actively involved from Feb 2017 until 2021. That's 4 years, a very long time. I'm sure personalities and opinions did vary, and if no substantial, active leads were continuing to come in, their time and $$$ would have been spent elsewhere.

I don't believe the D''s FM or Click's interpretations because of the flat out misleading of some of the information. Nor do I believe we'll be seeing any FBI agents testifying on the behalf of the Defense, possibly for the State though, so the D will have the opportunity to cross. Oh boy, that will interesting to say the least.

JMO

The great news is, when we get the hearing on the motion in limine, the defence will have to lay out evidence showing a direct nexus between each and every 3rd party suspect and the murders. So finally we can learn what cards they are actually holding.

We already heard Click, and he didn't seem to have any evidence specific to any suspect IMO.

So I feel like on that topic, I am just going to wait for that hearing and see what they got!

IMO