VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

[arielilane]

@alcaprari23

The jury is back to deliberating the fate of accused murderer Karen Read. They indicated they were deadlocked on Friday, but the judge sent them back into their chambers to continue discussions. Will update here if there's any developments today.


9:03 AM · Jul 1, 2024

 

[jepop]

There was no evidence on his body that he got hit. I’m very unclear how there’s argument about this.

brick wall. JO's body ( the injuries he bore and the complete absence of others) is the most unconditional piece of evidence in this trial. moo

 

[CourtandSims4]

Thank you for posting your thoughts @CourtandSims4

It has been interesting just recently hearing from more people who believe Karen Read is guilty, despite the compelling evidence from expert witnesses.

I suspect some readers are discouraged from posting due to feeling that their opinion goes against the majority, or perhaps concerned that they may be belittled or expected to justify their beliefs.

As I write this, the jury are in hour 22 of deliberations. Hearing accounts from posters on both sides goes some way to helping us understand what might be going on in that jury room.

To better gauge percentages of forum readers in each camp, I've arranged for a poll to be created.
Readers can cast their votes here.

Yea, I mean it's not as if I didn't spend time trying to actually see her as completely innocent. lol The thing is that I completely understand why people do feel this way. I can see and admit all the shortcomings of the prosecution case. And there are many. Lally being the prosecutor was really the icing on the cake. Truly.

What I find interesting is that no one is willing to even admit that Karen was acting like a guilty woman. None of it is even considered. No one says, "Well I can see why people would look at her behavior, and that interview, and wonder why she would ever think she had hit John." Or that his phone stops moving moments before she is leaving VMs screaming at him. Or why she would just believe she was caught on camera hitting him and not bother to even ask to have it confirmed by her lawyer or parents, if she didn't want to watch it.

That is the part that is frustrating to me, because none of this is as simple as people being too dumb or stubborn to listen to the compelling evidence from experts. Her behavior is the epitome of consciousness of guilt. We all watch trials regularly and we have knowledge of what that looks like. But will anyone who think she is innocent admit that? Maybe, but I have not run across enough of them to register in my memory.

I completely understand that this isn't enough to overcome the expert testimony for most, but I don't understand people being in denial about her general behavior and character.

 

[arielilane]

Karen Read thanks her supporters as we enter day 5 of jury deliberations. Today the Free Karen Read group has grown to about 150+.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807779384402526357

Today we enter day 5 of jury deliberations in the #KarenRead murder trial. On Friday, the deadlocked jurors were sent back for more deliberations. But what happens if the jury still can’t reach a unanimous verdict? ↓

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807752523509354827

 

[LauraAnne]

I don't understand why the jury can't be given the transcripts if they ask. What is the point of making meticulous, detailed transcripts if the jury can't access them during deliberations? What we seem to have here, is a case where jurors recall testimony differently and they aren't being allowed to clear up their recollections of testimony.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

There was no evidence on his body that he got hit. I’m very unclear how there’s argument about this.

A lot of us are.

 

[Spectrix]

But are we looking at the same fan? The one I see is getting tired and exhausted it seems.

If I'd spun my way through over 200 hours of continuous and repetitive monotone Lally "What if anything did you observe...", I'd be drooping as well.

 

[Curiousobserver]

There was no evidence on his body that he got hit. I’m very unclear how there’s argument about this.

25 Investigates: Prosecutors say taillight DNA evidence implicates Karen Read

On Wednesday, a new 49-page filing from the prosecution offered additional details. It says O’Keefe’s DNA has been found on Read’s broken taillight and that testing found that tiny pieces of taillight found on his clothing are consistent with broken pieces from Read’s taillight.

www.boston25news.com

“Through trace analysis and forensic testing, the Massachusetts State Police Crime Laboratory discovered the victim’s DNA present on the broken taillight and microscopic pieces of red and clear apparent plastic located in the victim’s clothing. Comparison testing was conducted, and the results demonstrate that the microscopic pieces of red and clear plastic are consistent with the broken pieces of plastic from the defendant’s right rear taillight.”

 

[thebedbug]

I don't understand why the jury can't be given the transcripts if they ask. What is the point of making meticulous, detailed transcripts if the jury can't access them during deliberations? What we seem to have here, is a case where jurors recall testimony differently and they aren't being allowed to clear up their recollections of testimony.

jury can request to have portions of testimony read back to them, if they have concerns.

 

[themonk]

I heard one commentator say that this is a strategy when you have NO CASE. Just put anyone and everyone up on that stand and drag it out for the best result. I think the opposite but I guess that seemed to be CW strategy. If you watch Lally's courtroom demeanor and body language this guy is just putting in hours with zero passion for this case at all. I am not sure he even believes his own words.

RBBM

I am sure he doesn't

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Yea, I mean it's not as if I didn't spend time trying to actually see her as completely innocent. lol The thing is that I completely understand why people do feel this way. I can see and admit all the shortcomings of the prosecution case. And there are many. Lally being the prosecutor was really the icing on the cake. Truly.

What I find interesting is that no one is willing to even admit that Karen was acting like a guilty woman. None of it is even considered. No one says, "Well I can see why people would look at her behavior, and that interview, and wonder why she would ever think she had hit John." Or that his phone stops moving moments before she is leaving VMs screaming at him. Or why she would just believe she was caught on camera hitting him and not bother to even ask to have it confirmed by her lawyer or parents, if she didn't want to watch it.

That is the part that is frustrating to me, because none of this is as simple as people being too dumb or stubborn to listen to the compelling evidence from experts. Her behavior is the epitome of consciousness of guilt. We all watch trials regularly and we have knowledge of what that looks like. But will anyone who think she is innocent admit that? Maybe, but I have not run across enough of them to register in my memory.

I completely understand that this isn't enough to overcome the expert testimony for most, but I don't understand people being in denial about her general behavior and character.

Because I would determine someone's guilt on evidence and science, not what kind of faces she makes or if she was hysterical because she couldn't find her partner. JMO

 

[themonk]

25 Investigates: Prosecutors say taillight DNA evidence implicates Karen Read

On Wednesday, a new 49-page filing from the prosecution offered additional details. It says O’Keefe’s DNA has been found on Read’s broken taillight and that testing found that tiny pieces of taillight found on his clothing are consistent with broken pieces from Read’s taillight.

www.boston25news.com

“Through trace analysis and forensic testing, the Massachusetts State Police Crime Laboratory discovered the victim’s DNA present on the broken taillight and microscopic pieces of red and clear apparent plastic located in the victim’s clothing. Comparison testing was conducted, and the results demonstrate that the microscopic pieces of red and clear plastic are consistent with the broken pieces of plastic from the defendant’s right rear taillight.”

See chain of custody issues

 

[CourtandSims4]

Is it up to Lally or Morrissey as to try it again. This is all just serving to magnify the awful LE work in the case and keep this in public eye longer. I honestly don't see how they can justify spending more tax $$ to do this again. KR really needs the NG to lift this cloud that is hovering over her and her whole family. Sadly not sure she will get it.

I feel like for them to do it again, the jury would have to be at least split 6/6 and I would be genuinely shocked if more than 2 or 3 people are hold outs for not guilty. lol But I think it is up to Morrissey to decide.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

25 Investigates: Prosecutors say taillight DNA evidence implicates Karen Read

On Wednesday, a new 49-page filing from the prosecution offered additional details. It says O’Keefe’s DNA has been found on Read’s broken taillight and that testing found that tiny pieces of taillight found on his clothing are consistent with broken pieces from Read’s taillight.

www.boston25news.com

“Through trace analysis and forensic testing, the Massachusetts State Police Crime Laboratory discovered the victim’s DNA present on the broken taillight and microscopic pieces of red and clear apparent plastic located in the victim’s clothing. Comparison testing was conducted, and the results demonstrate that the microscopic pieces of red and clear plastic are consistent with the broken pieces of plastic from the defendant’s right rear taillight.”

I think OP was referencing JOK's physical body and the damage (or lack there of)done to it. Not what could be planted taillight pieces. JMO

 

[CourtandSims4]

Because I would determine someone's guilt on evidence and science, not what kind of faces she makes or if she was hysterical because she couldn't find her partner. JMO

That's a gross oversimplification of what I said. lol

ETA: But, also this goes to my point. Many of her supporters can't even see it. Complete blinders.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I don't understand why the jury can't be given the transcripts if they ask. What is the point of making meticulous, detailed transcripts if the jury can't access them during deliberations? What we seem to have here, is a case where jurors recall testimony differently and they aren't being allowed to clear up their recollections of testimony.

100% agree- the jury should own all of the evidence and get to see anything they like as many times as they would like.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

That's a gross oversimplification of what I said. lol

Not really. The post made reference to an interview that was NEVER even entered into evidence at this trial. I came into this with an open mind. And actually, if I was leaning any way, I was leading towards she did it, and the evidence presented changed my mind. Not her character or what she said when in hysterics that has been disputed and misquoted ad nauseum.


ETA: I'm not a supporter of Karen Read. I support the justice system. I don't see anything BARD at this point. Sorry that I'm not going to reduce myself to judging her based on the faces she makes and things that weren't presented in court. I actually resent you labeling me as such but go ahead and do you. I don't know how determining someone's guilt or innocent IN MY OPINION based on the evidence presented in a trial is having blinders. JMO

 

[iusedtofloat]

seems some people think you must automatically be guilty of a crime if you're charged with it lol. all the science shows karen didn't do this. hoping today's the day for a NG verdict.

 

[LauraAnne]

100% agree- the jury should own all of the evidence and get to see anything they like as many times as they would like.

Absolutely. This article says,

• 9:07 a.m.: Reminder: The jury has no access to transcripts of witnesses' testimony. They must rely on their memories and personal notes. If jurors disagree about what a witness said, there's no way to check.

Karen Read verdict watch: Jury remains at an impasse in deliberations

Jurors deliberating the verdict in the trial of Karen Read, the Massachusetts woman accused of hitting her boyfriend John O'Keefe with an SUV and leaving him to die in a snowstorm, have again told the judge they are at an impasse and unable to reach a unanimous decision.

www.wcvb.com

 

[Curiousobserver]

I think OP was referencing JOK's physical body and the damage (or lack there of)done to it. Not what could be planted taillight pieces. JMO

Sorry, the statement was: "There was no evidence on his body that he got hit. I’m very unclear how there’s argument about this"

The pieces of her car, embedded in his clothing, are evidence that the car made contact with him at some point that evening.

The amount of evidence that would need to be planted, at the level of detail that it is present, is too much for for even a team of bad-actors to pull off.