Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[sunshineray]

RSBM

I was talking about her answer, though. Not the question. "I only saw kids my age there." And she was specifically talking about drop off.

Perhaps it was a false memory.

But, if it wasn't...did these kids see Abby and Libby, I wonder. What did they see? Who did they see? Were some of them possibly the "unknown" phones from the geofence map/data?

IMO MOO

Where did you see it said there were unknown phones?

 

[susane7]

I have never heard Riley claim they weren't there that night (and I don't think GG was implying that). But in episode 6 of the Down the Hill Podcast, Barbara MacDonald asks, "With so many people looking for them that first night, why weren't they found?" Doug Carter answers, "Um...I..I think I'll leave that question...unanswered."

IMO MOO

I did a laugh emoji just because Carter cryptic answer. I like Carter and I think he was desesperate to solve the crime but I think he is one of the reasons why people think the crime is more complicated than it really is. He always do cryptic comments - the shack, trying to talking direct with the killer and playing mind games with him, the sketches (I think the sketch is the same person, just made by different witnesses), the tentacles (I think he just meaned the investigation explored many routes, it was a huge and complicated investigation), the "today is not the day" (I interpret as it was not the day because there isn't a conviction yet, "today is the day" will be the day when they can get a conviction), etc. But I understand completely why people interpret his cryptic answers differently. He made people crazy with his cryptic answers lol.

The explanation from Kelsi about why they didn't find the girls at that night made sense for me. But I think we will have wait for the trail.

 

[sunshineray]

But she also said she did see kids at drop off. Hence, the confusion. Either way, the fact that so many kids were there means some of them had to have seen the girls. But we've heard nothing like that, even "leaked." It's like they were invisible except to witness BB (who only saw girls "resembling" them so what if it wasn't even them?). I can't remember....did BB know anyone in their families/know the girls - to be able to recognize them?

IMO MOO

Where did you see it said there were "so many kids were there"?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thank you to the moderator who granted me permission to share this James Renner interview with Kelsi German. I attempted to post it last week, but my post was deleted. Lots of hard work going on here! I originally posted it in response to someone's comment or question about if anyone there at the trails had seen the girls, besides BB who saw two girls resembling Abby and Libby.

My response went something like this: There HAD to be people who saw the girls there that day. Kelsi German told James Renner she saw 10-20 kids her age there when she dropped the girls off in that tiny little parking area. This is a small town with one public high school. You'd think out of the 10-20 kids she saw, at least some of them would have recognized her (if they saw her in the driver's seat, and they probably did since she said they had the windows down and may have even recognized her car....I knew all the cars my friends/classmates drove in high school), and some of them would probably even recognize Libby as her younger sister. I'm so curious what these 10-20 kids have told LE about what they saw that day. Did they see Abby and Libby? Did they see RA? How about BB?

This interview was filmed with a 360 view camera, so you have to drag your finger or your mouse over the screen to turn it around to be able to see James and Kelsi. This is part 1 of a 2-part interview he did with her at the yogurt shop. James has several interviews with family members and they are all good, but I've only permission to share this one .

Kelsi later did a “debunking” live where she clarified that there weren’t 10-20 kids there when she dropped Libby and Abby off. Rather, throughout the day there had been 10-20 there.

Renner was the first video she did alone, and she admitted in the live that she was nervous and had misstated some things.

Sister of Delphi murder victim streams live on YouTube to 'debunk rumors' about case

The sister of one of the girls who were murdered in Delphi in 2017 says she wants to "debunk rumors" about the case.

www.wthr.com

 

[TTF14]

Where did you see it said there were unknown phones?

I thought this had already been discussed at length here, but maybe I'm thinking of another forum or conversation.

Insight into Delphi Double Homicide hearings

ALLEN COUNTY, Ind. (WLFI) — Richard Allen's attorneys are asking for one of the hearings set for Monday in Fort Wayne to be postponed.

www.wlfi.com

 

[Ravenmoon]

Kelsi later did a “debunking” live where she clarified that there weren’t 10-20 kids there when she dropped Libby and Abby off. Rather, throughout the day there had been 10-20 there.

Renner was the first video she did alone, and she admitted in the live that she was nervous and had misstated some things.

Sister of Delphi murder victim streams live on YouTube to 'debunk rumors' about case

The sister of one of the girls who were murdered in Delphi in 2017 says she wants to "debunk rumors" about the case.

www.wthr.com

Yep.
It's also important to remember that at that time, KG was just a child.
A child who lost a sister in the most brutal of ways.
She was working through her loss and also probably scared for her own safety as well as that of her grandparents.
JMO

 

[TTF14]

Where did you see it said there were "so many kids were there"?

See the video I posted above (with James Renner). Kelsi said she saw 10-20 kids her age there when she dropped the girls off. I suppose my use of the phrase "so many kids" is quite subjective. You may have an alternate opinion on what "so many" might mean. To me, 10-20 is a lot more than the 3 or 4 we knew about from the PCA, hence my use of that phrase.

What else in my verbiage are you curious to receive clarification on?

IMO MOO

 

[susane7]

I think Kelsi went through an unimaginable trauma and sometimes she said confusing/ a bit contradictory things which is normal because she probably didn't remember that day very well. She blocked/built a protection for that day in her memory or she formed some false/mixed memories. It is the same thing with the Libby's shoe. She said different things, so some people think there were 3 shoes. There wasn't, she just wasn't sure where the shoe was found and confused the things IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

I thought this had already been discussed at length here, but maybe I'm thinking of another forum or conversation.

Insight into Delphi Double Homicide hearings

ALLEN COUNTY, Ind. (WLFI) — Richard Allen's attorneys are asking for one of the hearings set for Monday in Fort Wayne to be postponed.

www.wlfi.com

Nowhere in that article does it discuss "unknown phones" as in there are phones that were in the area that day that the owners have not been identified. You just have not heard who they were because of the gag order. They may be unknown to you/us but are known to LE and to the State and Defense through discovery.

 

[steeltowngirl]

What were the dates of the Holeman and Liggett depositions, as cited in the FM?

Would additional analysis have later revealed digital or DNA evidence?

Acknowledging that it is possible neither of the above do connect RA to the murder scene. Also possible that the FM misinterpreted discovery.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

Nowhere in that article does it discuss "unknown phones" as in there are phones that were in the area that day that the owners have not been identified. You just have not have heard who they were because of the gag order. They may be unknown to you/us but are known to LE and to the State and Defense through discovery.

My apologies for the verbiage I chose to use.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

What were the dates of the Holeman and Liggett depositions, as cited in the FM?

Would additional analysis have later revealed digital or DNA evidence?

Acknowledging that it is possible neither of the above do connect RA to the murder scene. Also possible that the FM misinterpreted discovery.

jmo

Not sure I'm following. Additional analysis of what?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Not sure I'm following. Additional analysis of what?

DNA or items recovered during search.

 

[Ravenmoon]

My apologies for the verbiage I chose to use.

IMO MOO

I would doubt that it's the verbiage of choice being the issue. It's more likely the implication that no one knows who may have been creeping around or participating in the murders.

JMO

 

[nadia90]

I thought this had already been discussed at length here, but maybe I'm thinking of another forum or conversation.

Insight into Delphi Double Homicide hearings

ALLEN COUNTY, Ind. (WLFI) — Richard Allen's attorneys are asking for one of the hearings set for Monday in Fort Wayne to be postponed.

www.wlfi.com

Link please to the unknown phones article

 

[sunshineray]

See the video I posted above (with James Renner). Kelsi said she saw 10-20 kids her age there when she dropped the girls off. I suppose my use of the phrase "so many kids" is quite subjective. You may have an alternate opinion on what "so many" might mean. To me, 10-20 is a lot more than the 3 or 4 we knew about from the PCA, hence my use of that phrase.

What else in my verbiage are you curious to receive clarification on?

IMO MOO

I have posted that interview with Anna, Abby's Mom recently and in it she says LE told her 50+ people were in and about the trails area that day. It may have been that the group Kelsei saw just went on a different trail and the opposite direction the girls did. MO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Why did it take so long to find the girls? We don’t know for certain, but for context - it happens.

Philip Kreycik - it took authorities 3 weeks to find Phillip Kreycik on the Pleasanton Ridge, and eventually they found him a couple hundred yards from the trail.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/pleasanton-runner-philip-kreycik-likely-died-from-heatstroke-in-106-degree-weather-investigators-say/

Barbara Thomas found one year later, close to where she was last seen.

Remains of woman lost in Mojave Desert last year found

A Bullhead City woman who went missing in the Mojave Desert more than a year ago have been found.

www.havasunews.com

Zacharey Wilkes was located at the place his car went off the road. THREE YEARS LATER.

DNA testing confirms death of Lompoc man reported missing in 2017

The death of a Lompoc man reported missing in 2017 is under investigation after his identity was confirmed through a DNA test on a bone fragment taken from a vehicle

lompocrecord.com

 

[sunshineray]

I would doubt that it's the verbiage of choice being the issue. It's more likely the implication that no one knows who may have been creeping around or participating in the murders.

JMO

I couldn't agree more. Finding out whether RA's phone, that he gave info to DD, is on the data OR if an unknown burner phone was being used in the area when RA say he was there using his phone...those are two things I'm just waiting to find out at trial!

 

[Betty P]

I thought this had already been discussed at length here, but maybe I'm thinking of another forum or conversation.

Insight into Delphi Double Homicide hearings

ALLEN COUNTY, Ind. (WLFI) — Richard Allen's attorneys are asking for one of the hearings set for Monday in Fort Wayne to be postponed.

www.wlfi.com

Read the article. That's information quoted from the defense team. At this point, JMO, they have no credibility. They'll say anything, tell every kind of tall tale to get favorable media attention for their defendant.

Thanks, I'll wait for the trial.

 

[mrjitty]

Thanks, I'll wait for the trial.

RSBM

Or at least the evidential hearings!