IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

SapphireSteel said:

The problem with a shop related abductor has always been the bikes.

We can confirm the following

1. The family say the girls had never biked to the lake

2. Whoever took the girls was lying in wait for them

3. No vehicles were seen at the lake despite there being a few people about.

4.Whoever took them got both girls instead of just one...very unusual for a sexual predator.

5. Lyric (at least from a distance) was adult sized.

:moo:

How did the abuctor pull off such a flawless crime?

How did he know the girls were headed to the lake? How did he/they manage to get to the lake before them?

If it was Klunder, (or someone like him) was he just sitting in the park on the off chance a girl or two would bike past alone?

He may have had to wait days before an appropriate target came along. Far too risky IMO. Sexual predators go to the source -schools, playgrounds, malls, bedroom windows.

:moo:

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Well today is Thursday 12/12/2013; 17 months since EC & LC were abducted on Friday the 13th, 2012; a day fraught with peril. Tomorrow is 12/13/2013; also Friday the 13th. Whether superstitious or not, I think we all have to agree that 07/13/2012 was a very tragic and unlucky day for the Collins, Cooks, and Evansdale community..

After researching and studying sexual predators/SKs for years, I've learned that most are very observant, calculating, and become very good hunters over time. Most have a reason for everything they say, and everything they do.

RE: Sexual predators go to the source -schools, playgrounds, malls, bedroom windows.

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EC & LC, rode their bikes to the park on 07/13/2012, without parental permission and may, or may not have done this before. Tomorrow, children will be in school. In July, children are out for summer break. A child predator would know this...

Sexual predators, although having a preferred victim/s will, lower their expectations as their window of opportunity diminishes, analogous to a mountain lion hunting their prey.
SS, The abductor did not pull off a flawless crime, imo. All of the illusive dots have simply been overlooked, or have not been collected, nor connected, as of yet, imo..
The primary difference between EC & LC's abduction, compared to KS & DH's abduction is that DH escaped MJK's wrath..

________________________

The reasons why Friday came to be regarded as a day of bad luck have been obscured by the mists of time — some of the more common theories link it to a significant event in Christian tradition said to have taken place on Friday, such as the Crucifixion, Eve's offering the apple to Adam in the Garden of Eden, the beginning of the Great Flood, or the confusion at the Tower of Babel. Chaucer alluded to Friday as a day on which bad things seemed to happen in the Canterbury Tales as far back as the late 14th century ("And on a Friday fell all this mischance"), but references to Friday as a day connected with ill luck generally start to show up in Western literature around the mid-17th century
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/luck/friday13.asp#9DQWgQDw1bX6i8QV.99

threecrazykids said:

Here is another thing I was thinking of regarding the boxy white suv. Two of the witnesses stated they saw the vehicle parked on Arbutus. The 3rd witness stated they saw it parked "near the woods". Now that I'm thinking about it I think it makes sense that those girls were meeting someone there

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

The way I see all 3 witness accounts making sense, would be that the person was sitting on Arbutus (which meets up with the bike trail) waiting for the girls to pass by Arbutus to the back of the lake.
THEN, once they saw them ride by on the bike trail (which would ALSO take into account them stopping and asking for directions to the lake at Fareway - if that's true) the perp then pulls further into the wooded area - in essence "trapping them".

I also don't think the girls knew what kind of vehicle this person was driving. I assume this because if the girls recognized the vehicle the perp was driving I would have expected them to veer off the path and head to the vehicle (if they saw it sitting on Arbutus). But if they were riding along and didn't know what the person would be driving, they wouldn't have looked for, or recognized any vehicle sitting along Arbutus.

This theory also makes sense that if the girls knew this person, there wouldn't have been obvious signs of a struggle there at the lake. The girls could have willingly laid their bikes down with a promise of "let's go get some ice cream and bring it back here" and boom, the bikes are dropped, and off they go.

That scenario makes sense to me as far as the vehicle moving from Arbutus over to the wooded area as all 3 witnesses claim as well as no obvious signs of trouble. The girls knew WHO they were meeting, they just didn't necessarily know WHAT the person would be driving. Otherwise, I would have expected CCTV that picked up the girls to have possibly picked up this SUV if they were approached closer to home.

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This makes sense that they were taken at the lake after a promise of something, maybe ice cream or even a paddle boat ride on the lake if they met him there at 12:30 or so? This would account for the bicycles being there. They may not have known him as a personal family friend but maybe as a casual acquaintance, someone who may have teased or kidded with them on the street beforehand.
A stop at the house to get something to drink and they glanced at the clock and took off to be in time for their secret rendezvous.

I don't understand why this vehicle can not be found. I think LE would have access to the DMV database. If it's an older Chevy or Ford Bronco there has to be a way with the DMV to find out who had this type of vehicle registered at that time. If the vehicle was junked afterwards, start looking at local junkyards and work your way outward.

At one time I think they had five people working the case. I wonder how many they have now, maybe they are short handed. Or the people they have may be working on the drug problems in the state.

skeet said:

I don't understand why this vehicle can not be found. I think LE would have access to the DMV database. If it's an older Chevy or Ford Bronco there has to be a way with the DMV to find out who had this type of vehicle registered at that time. If the vehicle was junked afterwards, start looking at local junkyards and work your way outward.

At one time I think they had five people working the case. I wonder how many they have now, maybe they are short handed. Or the people they have may be working on the drug problems in the state.

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Around here, that vague criteria would probably yield around 100,000 vehicles, maybe more...and that's assuming they know it had an Iowa license plate. If it was from out of state, you might be looking at millions, with no way to tell if you had found the one you're looking for.

carbuff said:

Around here, that vague criteria would probably yield around 100,000 vehicles, maybe more...and that's assuming they know it had an Iowa license plate. If it was from out of state, you might be looking at millions, with no way to tell if you had found the one you're looking for.

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Adding on this line of thinking...it would surely help too if LE came out and said "after pleading to the public we were able to identify the white boxy suv and after extensive investigations it was determined that the vehicle in question nor the driver is connected to the disappearance" or something along those lines.

Would we be wrong to expect LE to notify the public if that vehicle is no longer a part of the equation?
They've been so quiet, but I almost expect them to notify the public of the vehicle being cleared. Otherwise, people could be wasting time calling in tips or looking at every white boxy suv as suspicious.


If I could just have 15 minutes with the lead investigator in this case, allowed to ask questions firing-squad-style, it could clear up a lot of my questions.
Highly probable - I'll just give em' a call, and see what they think. :floorlaugh:

Truthfully, I don't think most LE gives a flying banana whether the public is wasting its time on speculation and gossip.

I think its wrong to expect to be kept abreast of a complicated and confidential investigation.

They did ask for the public help.

SapphireSteel said:

I think its wrong to expect to be kept abreast of a complicated and confidential investigation.

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I agree, but after they asked the public to help identify the paddleboaters they came back and cleared them.
They did the same with the "suspicious" guy who was driving the white van at the Casey's that day in Evansdale. Once he came in and cleared things up they notified the public right away he was no longer a POI.

No word on the mysterious white suv though...it would be nice to know if that's no longer of interest to them.

Foxfire, my research on predators and serial offenders agrees with yours. They're predators. Even if they haven't fantasized and planned a specific crime with a specific victim, they're always looking around them and thinking in terms of victims and escapes. Is this a place where children congregate? Is that an isolated corner where I can accost them unseen? Does that street give me an easy escape route? Hm, this isolated park where a friend took me fishing could be useful some day. Nobody'd ever think to look here. And because they're always on the lookout, they can recognize opportunity instantly.

It's like a coyote looking for a meal. Coyotes know what paths rabbits follow and where they go to eat and drink. They know if they're near a path to water at twilight, they're liable to find a rabbit going to drink. When a rabbit comes down the path, he's ready to spring.

So I think it's very likely that such a predator (whether sexual or thrill killer) might have cruised past the lake hoping for an opportunity, spotted the girls at an isolated spot at the lake, and pounced, just like a coyote pouncing on a rabbit.

Is that planned? Yes, but it's not planned in the sense of choosing a specific victim, planning to get to them, luring them, etc. There are killers who do that, but I don't see a lot of evidence of this sort of planning.

p.s. (Note that I don't think this is the only possible explanation.)

SapphireSteel said:

The problem with a shop related abductor has always been the bikes.

We can confirm the following

1. The family say the girls had never biked to the lake

2. Whoever took the girls was lying in wait for them

3. No vehicles were seen at the lake despite there being a few people about.

4.Whoever took them got both girls instead of just one...very unusual for a sexual predator.

5. Lyric (at least from a distance) was adult sized.

:moo:

How did the abuctor pull off such a flawless crime?

How did he know the girls were headed to the lake? How did he/they manage to get to the lake before them?

If it was Klunder, (or someone like him) was he just sitting in the park on the off chance a girl or two would bike past alone?

He may have had to wait days before an appropriate target came along. Far too risky IMO. Sexual predators go to the source -schools, playgrounds, malls, bedroom windows.

:moo:

Click to expand...

We cannot confirm #3. We have three people who saw a white boxy SUV.

skeet said:

I don't understand why this vehicle can not be found. I think LE would have access to the DMV database. If it's an older Chevy or Ford Bronco there has to be a way with the DMV to find out who had this type of vehicle registered at that time. If the vehicle was junked afterwards, start looking at local junkyards and work your way outward.

At one time I think they had five people working the case. I wonder how many they have now, maybe they are short handed. Or the people they have may be working on the drug problems in the state.

Click to expand...

We don't know that it hasn't been found.

I can't say anymore because of TOS.

skeet said:

I don't understand why this vehicle can not be found. I think LE would have access to the DMV database. If it's an older Chevy or Ford Bronco there has to be a way with the DMV to find out who had this type of vehicle registered at that time. If the vehicle was junked afterwards, start looking at local junkyards and work your way outward.

At one time I think they had five people working the case. I wonder how many they have now, maybe they are short handed. Or the people they have may be working on the drug problems in the state.

Click to expand...

BBM

Thompson said one Black Hawk County investigator and a DCI agent were exploring leads in the kidnapping case as recently as Monday.

http://www.kcrg.com/home/top-9/Misty-Cook-Mother-of-Evansdale-Cousin-In-Custody-233386921.html

threecrazykids said:

I agree, but after they asked the public to help identify the paddleboaters they came back and cleared them.
They did the same with the "suspicious" guy who was driving the white van at the Casey's that day in Evansdale. Once he came in and cleared things up they notified the public right away he was no longer a POI.

No word on the mysterious white suv though...it would be nice to know if that's no longer of interest to them.

Click to expand...

Given that they have in the past issued this kind of information, I think it's fair to extrapolate that they either haven't been able to identify the vehicle or haven't been able to eliminate it at this point.

And given the vagueness of the description, my first guess would be that they have several candidates, none of which can be ruled in or out.

SapphireSteel said:

The problem with a shop related abductor has always been the bikes.

We can confirm the following

1. The family say the girls had never biked to the lake

2. Whoever took the girls was lying in wait for them

3. No vehicles were seen at the lake despite there being a few people about.

4.Whoever took them got both girls instead of just one...very unusual for a sexual predator.

5. Lyric (at least from a distance) was adult sized.

:moo:

How did the abuctor pull off such a flawless crime?

How did he know the girls were headed to the lake? How did he/they manage to get to the lake before them?

If it was Klunder, (or someone like him) was he just sitting in the park on the off chance a girl or two would bike past alone?

He may have had to wait days before an appropriate target came along. Far too risky IMO. Sexual predators go to the source -schools, playgrounds, malls, bedroom windows.

:moo:

Click to expand...

Well I Hv always thought at gunpoint, the bikes went into the pickup or SUV and were dumped at lake as a red herring. Just a theory but I will chk the other thread on the shops.
Thnx all. I thnk silence in this case has hindered it rather than helped.

I Hv to add the reason I thnk this is because maybe we are looking at a follyaudue, sp...
iow two killers. I thnk this crime was random. No proof anyone was lying in wait.

Cherry said:

I Hv to add the reason I thnk this is because maybe we are looking at a follyaudue, sp...
iow two killers. I thnk this crime was random. No proof anyone was lying in wait.

Click to expand...

I think it's possible there could have been two perps, but I definitely don't believe this was random. JMO.

carbuff said:

Foxfire, my research on predators and serial offenders agrees with yours. They're predators. Even if they haven't fantasized and planned a specific crime with a specific victim, they're always looking around them and thinking in terms of victims and escapes. Is this a place where children congregate? Is that an isolated corner where I can accost them unseen? Does that street give me an easy escape route? Hm, this isolated park where a friend took me fishing could be useful some day. Nobody'd ever think to look here. And because they're always on the lookout, they can recognize opportunity instantly.

It's like a coyote looking for a meal. Coyotes know what paths rabbits follow and where they go to eat and drink. They know if they're near a path to water at twilight, they're liable to find a rabbit going to drink. When a rabbit comes down the path, he's ready to spring.

So I think it's very likely that such a predator (whether sexual or thrill killer) might have cruised past the lake hoping for an opportunity, spotted the girls at an isolated spot at the lake, and pounced, just like a coyote pouncing on a rabbit.

Is that planned? Yes, but it's not planned in the sense of choosing a specific victim, planning to get to them, luring them, etc. There are killers who do that, but I don't see a lot of evidence of this sort of planning.

p.s. (Note that I don't think this is the only possible explanation.)

Click to expand...

Yep, carbuff, that's an excellent analogy and theory of what likely happened in EC & LC's abduction & murder, imo..
As opposed to KS & DH's abduction, where the predator; MJK, had watched KS & DH, get off that same school bus many times before. MJK, only lived 500' from the school/bus stop. Their abduction was likely planned with them as the intended victims , imo. Due to their school being only days before letting out for summer break on June 5/2012. The window of opportunity for their abduction was quickly diminishing, imo..

watcher9 said:

This makes sense that they were taken at the lake after a promise of something, maybe ice cream or even a paddle boat ride on the lake if they met him there at 12:30 or so? This would account for the bicycles being there. They may not have known him as a personal family friend but maybe as a casual acquaintance, someone who may have teased or kidded with them on the street beforehand.
A stop at the house to get something to drink and they glanced at the clock and took off to be in time for their secret rendezvous.

Click to expand...

This was discussed when the girls first disappeared. I still think this is the most likely scenario ....promise 2 little girls something they truly like .... arrange a meeting and kidnap them.

CHERIE.T said:

This was discussed when the girls first disappeared. I still think this is the most likely scenario ....promise 2 little girls something they truly like .... arrange a meeting and kidnap them.

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Since one of the girls had a birthday forthcoming, a quick trip to pick out a present?