Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

petedavo.au said:

I think with we brainstormed similarities, no matter how far fetched. Might come up with something tangible.

We're any of the other victims missing shoes? Did they recover shoes at Kerry Turner's dump site?

If shipping disasters spark his interest, if he was responsible for Cutler and Turner, and thus was looking for dumpsites near the wreck of the Alkimos and wreck of the Kwinana?

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Oh boy, too many ship wreck sites
http://museum.wa.gov.au/maritime-archaeology-db/wrecks/map
Looks like any site near the coast will be near a shipwreck.

Has anyone found out if JR, CG, & KT were missing their shoes or not, when their bodies were found, yet?

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petedavo.au said:

Oh boy, too many ship wreck sites
http://museum.wa.gov.au/maritime-archaeology-db/wrecks/map
Looks like any site near the coast will be near a shipwreck.

Has anyone found out if JR, CG, & KT were missing their shoes or not, when their bodies were found, yet?

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I've read quite a few posts but can't locate anything. There's detail regarding the circumstances but nothing about clothing, shoes etc.

Here's a very informative website and is searchable by Ctrl F. http://nyt.bz/MissingMurdered_WestAust.html

meticulously said:

PD, thanks that right , the statistics for Subiaco are at least real data .

Unless innerchilds info is recorded statistics? Its irrelevant now , just a throwaway .
Historical weather stats are all that matter, 29 years later, now .

BTW newspaper weather is about the most basic level weather info you can get .
Very generic and lacking in detail compared with whats actually available.
Dont put faith in the old basic newspaper weather , if you are really keen on understanding weather you go way further beyond and into higher level information.

http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/cottesloe-tide-and-wave.asp

http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/rottnest-island-tide-and-wave.asp

Links to directional swell graphs
Showing Norwest swell mon 16th oct 2017

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As stated in previous posts and on images sources, all weather readings accurate readings from the day after unless otherwise stated from The West Australian June 17 - 23 1988.

The West Australian had very accurate weather in 1988. The West published yesterday’s BOM isobar, mean sea level charts (MSL) and today’s MSL outlook. Detailed forecasts with clear image of state with detailed forecasts for each area. Detailed, extended forecasts, and small boats wind, sea and swell reports.

The boating forecast was very important and relied upon by many before the days on Internet access to BOM. Monday 20th June SW winds at 10 to 15 knots easing to 10 knots by late morning. Seas should be 1 m on a swell of 3 m. But what does that matter if the Fiat only entered the ocean on 22nd June and was found a matter of hours latter with its lights on.

Temperature and yesterdays confirmed temp with times for max an min, Capital city temps, tides in all cities in the state, moon phases, sunrise and sunset. All of this took a whole page and had all the BOM date.

What I find interesting is that your posts one day, when reading the MSL chart form the West Australian for 17th of June said the chart indicated there was a storm approaching. That is incorrect. The next post agreed there was no storm indicated with the MSM chart and yet a day later you were posting that the same MSL chart for the 17th June showed there was a storm coming. Incorrect.

Even if you can't read the MSL charts they are clearly explained in the extended forecast from The West Australian, (as well as temp info etc) from the .jpg. The information is all correct and I have followed websleuths rules carefully with this.

The minimum temperatures from Subiaco are slightly different (Fremantle was in operation then), but minimums weren’t until 7 or 7.30 am on the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] - 22[SUP]nd[/SUP] June 1988. Source The West Australian. Depends where you're from. In England 10, 11, 12 degrees could be a summer's day and yet was most probably the overnight temperature on 20th June 1988. Your Subiaco station didn't have a source which you could have easily google and put it in your post. http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/data/stations/

Data which I have posted here and previously from images and notes taken, shows no storm before 20th June, fine light winds, SW to NE from 20th to 22nd June. Storm not coming in until after 24th and probably on 26/27th June. I didn't both looking that far ahead as it has no influence on JC's Fiat at Cotteloe beach.


Source: The West Australian Tuesday 21st June 1988



Source: The West Australian Saturday 18th June 1988.

All post are my personal opinion and my personal copyright unless sources are included

Eaglette said:

[FONT=&amp]FORMER top cop Karl O’Callaghan raises questions about the suitability of his successor Chris Dawson to become police commissioner over his stewardship of the Claremont serial killer investigation.[/FONT]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...n/news-story/f8882603e1cf04269271b9cb06e4c7d8

Boy oh boy - what a mess WAPOL have left with all these missing/murdered women :tantrum:

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Thanks Eaglette. http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...n/news-story/f8882603e1cf04269271b9cb06e4c7d8

[FONT=&amp]FORMER top cop Karl O’Callaghan raised questions about the suitability of his successor Chris Dawson to become police commissioner over his stewardship of the Claremont serial killer investigation.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Mr O’Callaghan referred an internal WA Police report on the investigation, which previously sat within Mr Dawson’s crime portfolio as deputy commissioner, to the Corruption and Crime Commission about a year ago.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Mr O’Callaghan raised the matter again with Premier Mark McGowan and Police Minister Michelle Roberts after Labor was elected in March and set about recruiting a new police commissioner....
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Mr McKechnie determined any concerns raised in the report were of a managerial nature and there was no misconduct found on the part of any officer....

Mr O’Callaghan has been publicly scathing in recent days of the recruitment process to replace him....

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Mr O’Callaghan used Twitter on Saturday night to claim the agency had lost its independence. [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]“The credibility of PSC values and independence evaporated with interference in the COPs selection,” he tweeted.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]I'd like to know what it was about the CSK that caused [/FONT]O’Callaghan to refer the incident to the CCC, and warn both Liberal and Labour governments. Just managerial, said [FONT=&amp]McKechnie! Hasn't his name come up a few times as well?

All posts are my own opinion and my personal copyright unless sources are included[/FONT]

Hi everyone and welcome Occula - something that has always bothered me is the lack of information about OBH in Cottesloe. Seems like it was a very busy place like the Claremont Hotel but only briefly mentioned as a place two of the CSK victims were at before going to Claremont the nights they disappeared. SS and JR had both spent most of their evenings out at the OBH first. I wonder if JC also frequented OBH. CG may also have gone there. I would have thought the police would have looked into this hotel. Even on the evenings SS and JR were there - surely there were security cameras showing the patrons. Maybe even cameras outside showing cars that may also have shown up in the videos of Bayview Tce. Not sure if it would have been closed by the time JC left her staff party at the Parmelia - but if it was something could have shown up on their cameras. It seems very odd to me that the hours the girl's spent at the OBH hasn't been investigated. MOO

Annalise said:

Hi everyone and welcome Occula - something that has always bothered me is the lack of information about OBH in Cottesloe. Seems like it was a very busy place like the Claremont Hotel but only briefly mentioned as a place two of the CSK victims were at before going to Claremont the nights they disappeared. SS and JR had both spent most of their evenings out at the OBH first. I wonder if JC also frequented OBH. CG may also have gone there. I would have thought the police would have looked into this hotel. Even on the evenings SS and JR were there - surely there were security cameras showing the patrons. Maybe even cameras outside showing cars that may also have shown up in the videos of Bayview Tce. Not sure if it would have been closed by the time JC left her staff party at the Parmelia - but if it was something could have shown up on their cameras. It seems very odd to me that the hours the girl's spent at the OBH hasn't been investigated. MOO

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I agree with you AL. Especially with JR. It's not clear at all from the cctv that she was with the three friends it was stated she was with. I'd like to know more about her at the OBH as well if she was there.

Sunday 19 June 1988 - After researching what events took place on that date, such as a concert, football match etc, the only events I could find which may have been of interest were….

Perry Lakes hosted the New Zealand Rugby union Tour - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988

Detroit Grand Prix - http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/image/18211.html (i.e. at hotel watching on a big screen )

Innerchild said:

Which Michelle was this? Mallard was staying on her couch and trying to impress her by making up stories he worked for Interpol and stealing a challis from Iona. Provided statements she changed for Caporn a few times, that helped convict Mallard. Had drug charges. Dets helped her get a new homeswest flat. Was she Droc's attractive and manipulative woman who helped lure victims into taxi's? Most probably on JR's cctv as shown in previous image.

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Was this Michelle on the cctv from Jane's disappearance from Claremont Hotel? Whoever it was she was extremely careful not to face the camera. Most interesting however is that she gets to disappear from the early frame 23.41.38 (black top under her jacket) where it looks like MM is talking to Jane and has morphed into a guy (white T shirt under his jumper) at 23.41.58


1


Image 1: 23.41.38 Woman with black top putting on white jacket behind a Mystery Male. Image 2: 23.41.38 She is now half woman half man. Image 3: 23.41.58 (20 second jump) Now it's full man - jumperman with white T shirt under jumper.



Image 4 23.41.57: Man with white T shirt putting on jumper and walking behind a Mystery Man.

Source: Crime Investigation Australia Hunt for a Serial Killer. Haley Jane version on you tube modified by me.

All posts my own opinion and my copyright

Images taken from cctv at : 23.53.38 (This could be 23.58.38 as the time stamp has been deliberately blurred). If it is 23.53, it is only 12 minutes since Jane was last seen after exiting Conti. Was this long enough to have walked to Club bay View waited in line then fare welled her friends who were able to get a taxi and drive past asking her if she wants a lift? Her so called friend, F3 (also seen in the inside hotel shot talking to man that looked like MM) was supposed to have gone home in the taxi according to the story.



Source: Crime Investigation Australia Hunt for a Serial Killer. Haley Jane version on you tube modified by me

All posts my own opinion and my copyright

Innerchild said:

Was this Michelle on the cctv from Jane's disappearance from Claremont Hotel? Whoever it was she was extremely careful not to face the camera. Most interesting however is that she gets to disappear from the early frame 23.41.38 (black top under her jacket) where it looks like MM is talking to Jane and has morphed into a guy (white T shirt under his jumper) at 23.41.58


1

Image 1: 23.41.38 Woman with black top putting on white jacket behind a Mystery Male. Image 2: 23.41.38 She is now half woman half man. Image 3: 23.41.58 (20 second jump) Now it's full man - jumperman with white T shirt under jumper.

Image 4 23.41.57: Man with white T shirt putting on jumper and walking behind a Mystery Man.

Source: Crime Investigation Australia Hunt for a Serial Killer. Haley Jane version on you tube modified by me.

All posts my own opinion and my copyright

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Hi IC - I don't know what the reason was to put that video of the so called MM on tv asking the public for help identifying him. There was some other reason for it. It's obvious, since many sleuthers have studied the video over and over that there were some suspicious looking people in the background. The video was terrible quality and it was difficult to work it out. It was chopped so much there was no continuous flow to it. Even so sleuthers who persisted with looking frame by frame were able to see certain people acting strangely. Looking at JR and keeping a close eye on her. Having had a close look at your stills of the MM video - the girl you are talking about looks very much like Michelle. Same hair colour and style. I have seen a photo of her from around that time. MOO

Annalise said:

Hi everyone and welcome Occula - something that has always bothered me is the lack of information about OBH in Cottesloe. Seems like it was a very busy place like the Claremont Hotel but only briefly mentioned as a place two of the CSK victims were at before going to Claremont the nights they disappeared. SS and JR had both spent most of their evenings out at the OBH first. I wonder if JC also frequented OBH. CG may also have gone there. I would have thought the police would have looked into this hotel. Even on the evenings SS and JR were there - surely there were security cameras showing the patrons. Maybe even cameras outside showing cars that may also have shown up in the videos of Bayview Tce. Not sure if it would have been closed by the time JC left her staff party at the Parmelia - but if it was something could have shown up on their cameras. It seems very odd to me that the hours the girl's spent at the OBH hasn't been investigated. MOO

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OBH is the most interesting amongst similarities yet to be explored. Did everyone move on from OBH because it closed earlier than the pubs in Claremont? Was that the usual practice? go to Cottesloe first, then move onto Claremont?

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petedavo.au said:

OBH is the most interesting amongst similarities yet to be explored. Did everyone move on from OBH because it closed earlier than the pubs in Claremont? Was that the usual practice? go to Cottesloe first, then move onto Claremont?

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Hi Petedavo - it seems odd to me that SS and JR would spend hours at OBH and then onto Claremont for only a couple of hours or so. Maybe, as you say, it was common practice to do this. If the majority of their time was spent at the OBH it would be very interesting to find out if perhaps they had met the CSK there and arranged to meet him later in Claremont. MOO

petedavo.au said:

OBH is the most interesting amongst similarities yet to be explored. Did everyone move on from OBH because it closed earlier than the pubs in Claremont? Was that the usual practice? go to Cottesloe first, then move onto Claremont?

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OBH had same opening hours as Conti


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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Annalise said:

Hi Petedavo - it seems odd to me that SS and JR would spend hours at OBH and then onto Claremont for only a couple of hours or so. Maybe, as you say, it was common practice to do this. If the majority of their time was spent at the OBH it would be very interesting to find out if perhaps they had met the CSK there and arranged to meet him later in Claremont. MOO

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The OBH to Claremont run was common for groups of people wanting to stay out later. Often a few would convince everyone to go there and the rest would sheepily follow.

Photos I took last week in Claremont, illustrating JR's POV from where she was standing at the pole.

Pic 1 Front Door


Pic 2 Looking east at walkway and what was Dome Cafe


Pic 3 Looking south down Bay View Terrace





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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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Open to the idea of an accomplice but why Michelle and not for example CGE or another familiar name?

Innerchild said:

Was this Michelle on the cctv from Jane's disappearance from Claremont Hotel? Whoever it was she was extremely careful not to face the camera. Most interesting however is that she gets to disappear from the early frame 23.41.38 (black top under her jacket) where it looks like MM is talking to Jane and has morphed into a guy (white T shirt under his jumper) at 23.41.58


1

Image 1: 23.41.38 Woman with black top putting on white jacket behind a Mystery Male. Image 2: 23.41.38 She is now half woman half man. Image 3: 23.41.58 (20 second jump) Now it's full man - jumperman with white T shirt under jumper.

Image 4 23.41.57: Man with white T shirt putting on jumper and walking behind a Mystery Man.

Source: Crime Investigation Australia Hunt for a Serial Killer. Haley Jane version on you tube modified by me.

All posts my own opinion and my copyright

Click to expand...

Annalise said:

Hi Petedavo - it seems odd to me that SS and JR would spend hours at OBH and then onto Claremont for only a couple of hours or so. Maybe, as you say, it was common practice to do this. If the majority of their time was spent at the OBH it would be very interesting to find out if perhaps they had met the CSK there and arranged to meet him later in Claremont. MOO

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Dunno. In general are all young adults pub crawlers? Or do they stick to the one location all night? In my Grand uncle's day, after he got back from the war, he'd catch a train from Midland to Fremantle and visit every pub and wine bar from Fremantle back to Koongamia. My dad said he went with him a couple of times, but found out that my Grand uncle only took him along so he had someone to convince my Grand Aunty to let him into his house in the morning. Anyway back on track, I wonder if there were any other attacks near Steve's pub in Nedlands, the Captain Stirling, and the two former pubs in Mosman Park as well? What are the chances that the accused was a pub crawler?

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More photos I took in Claremont illustrating JR's POV from position near pole.

Pic 4 Eastern ground level outdoor seating area


Pic 5 Looking towards Gugeri Street and bridge over train line.


Pic 6 Post Office and the old Dome Cafe - directly across road





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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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petedavo.au said:

Dunno. In general are all young adults pub crawlers? Or do they stick to the one location all night? In my Grand uncle's day, after he got back from the war, he'd catch a train from Midland to Fremantle and visit every pub and wine bar from Fremantle back to Koongamia. My dad said he went with him a couple of times, but found out that my Grand uncle only took him along so he had someone to convince my Grand Aunty to let him into his house in the morning. Anyway back on track, I wonder if there were any other attacks near Steve's pub in Nedlands, the Captain Stirling, and the two former pubs in Mosman Park as well? What are the chances that the accused was a pub crawler?

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There was a pub on Glyde St?
http://www.mingor.net/localities/mosman-park.html
Did I just stumble upon the accused's prior connection to Mosman Park?


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