04/22/2013 - waiting for rebuttal to continue

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JMO - but JM needs to focus now on one thing, and one thing only - premeditation. If JM can prove that issue, it doesn't matter how many head Docs are paraded around by the DT. None of the head issues would preclude Ms. Arias from being a killer, and with that huge IQ she believes to be brillant, right and wrong are simple concepts. PTSD is after the fact and is being used as an excuse for lies and memory issues. That went over with the jury like a lead balloon and they aren't going to forget about it. ALV for domestic violence, one question JM should have had for her was, with her "vast" experience, how many times did a victim of DV plot, plan, and drive 1000 miles to "snap".

But I agree, the DT will drag out a surrebuttal for as long as possible.

Yes, Willmott will drag this out until SHE feels satisfied that the whole world and the news stations agree with the Arias defense...self-defense, abuse excuse, DV, PTSD, "sudden quarrel".....And if that is the case, this will be going on til Christmas!!! :furious:
 
Morning all!

Does anyone know if the judge is going to allow the sur rebuttal? I've been away for a bit and its been hard to keep up :)

Of course she is going to allow it. It's all about Arias and the DP. To he!! with the VICTIM in this case!
 
AND...as far as a "sudden quarrel"...it's OK that she couldn't "control" herself and killed someone???? We all have had, or do have, "quarrels" with our spouses. But we control ourselves and DO NOT kill our husbands/boyfriends, and they do not kill us. This new charge makes it OK that she killed Travis?? Or OK for others to not control themselves?


How does a fully dressed person engage in a sudden fight with someone taking a shower? Maybe I worded that wrong. What naked person taking a shower is going to engage a lunatic in a heated fight?
Thats a pretty sudden fight where you go from edifying a person photographically to killing them in 120 seconds and it still doesn't explain all the pre-meditation.
I'm advised there are several older jurors. One of the developmental tasks of middle adulthood is attempting to leave the world a better place for those who'll follow. Setting a psychopath free to snap again doesn't fit that agenda in the least. People who have managed to control their urges and emotions their entire lives aren't going to fall for this. No way IMO.
:please:
 
Of course she is going to allow it. It's all about Arias and the DP. The he!! with the VICTIM in this case!

I guess I was in fantasy land hoping she would say no. But you are right Wilmott will stomp her feet and it will happen.

From what I've seen about this guy this case is turning into more of a joke than it was before. Seems to me you would find someone more credible than the last experts not less.
 
Well leaving for work. I suppose it would useless for me to think I will catch some of the trial when I come home for lunch as it never ever ever starts on time!

Husband has already been informed that there are leftovers for dinner. Gotta watch the trial when I get home. Glad AZ is 3 hours behind NY. Although with this new (tem to perm) job, I am sick of the computer by the time I get home..but the alternative is HLN-and all the commercials and going on til 10pm!!!

Have a good day all!!
 
Goooood morning!!!! :seeya:

Cant wait for what today might bring but i sure know its going to be juanderful

Ok, juanderful is in my autocorrect dictionary wth :floorlaugh:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Good Morning, everyone.

BBM I pronounce this as "Juandaful", but I'm from the Bronx. :floorlaugh:
 
Well leaving for work. I suppose it would useless for me to think I will catch some of the trial when I come home for lunch as it never ever ever starts on time!

Husband has already been informed that there are leftovers for dinner. Gotta watch the trial when I get home. Glad AZ is 3 hours behind NY. Although with this new (tem to perm) job, I am sick of the computer by the time I get home..but the alternative is HLN-and all the commercials and going on til 10pm!!!

Have a good day all!!

Is the judge going to rule on the new motion re: the lesser charges -- heat of passion? I bet they will be in chambers this morning.

Ughhhh!

Mel
 
Yes, Willmott will drag this out until SHE feels satisfied that the whole world and the news stations agree with the Arias defense...self-defense, abuse excuse, DV, PTSD, "sudden quarrel".....And if that is the case, this will be going on til Christmas!!! :furious:

Wilmer and Nurmi have turned this into a contest. Jodi needs to get on the bus to her new home. Her crap wont fly there.
 
Of course she is going to allow it. It's all about Arias and the DP. To he!! with the VICTIM in this case!

There's a chance she won't Linda. The motion was worded (per HLN) that because the State introduced new evidence ie: BPD in their rebuttal and not their CIC, that the DT should be permitted to refute that. The DT has had Dr.D's written report for years and since when is it the states job to present the DT's mental health excuse in their CIC?
 
Wilmer and Nurmi have turned this into a contest. Jodi needs to get on the bus to her new home. Her crap wont fly there.

Next they will have Henry Lee testify about some mystery piece of evidence only he found, that ended up in his pocket. But its all ok cause it clears her.
 
Well leaving for work. I suppose it would useless for me to think I will catch some of the trial when I come home for lunch as it never ever ever starts on time!

Husband has already been informed that there are leftovers for dinner. Gotta watch the trial when I get home. Glad AZ is 3 hours behind NY. Although with this new (tem to perm) job, I am sick of the computer by the time I get home..but the alternative is HLN-and all the commercials and going on til 10pm!!!

Have a good day all!!

If you miss any part of the trial you can find it on youtube.
 
Do you think the actual trial will start later because they will all be in chambers? Will the Alexander family have to be in chambers, too?
 
This is what I understand this to be:

Committing second degree murder upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion resulting from adequate provocation by the victim

"Adequate provocation" means conduct or circumstances sufficient to deprive a reasonable person of self-control.

What I don't understand is how they can massage this into Jodi's previous testimony. IMO - she didn't testify to "heat of passion" or a quarrel. (He yelled at her for dropping the camera - that can't possibly qualify as causing a reasonable person to lose self-control.) Her long drawn-out testimony was self-defense. Had they intended this her testimony would have been a different story - I guess they are headed to their . . . what . . . fourth or fifth "story"??!!




This bs of dropping the camera story is insane. She destroys a BMW, and he doesn't get mad about that, yet dropping a camera sends him over the edge - sure. Complete idiocy, but expected, the DT has nothing to defend her with except for more spaghetti.
 
So I read the article. Flabbergasting. Sickening really. Sorry... I'm just one of those people who speak my mind.

There is a section on this forum that highlights bullying. Online bullying - in particular. We've all read the recent accounts. They're heartbreaking. Rational adults speak against it. No one considers the slander, horrific and even threatening comments by online bullies as "free speech". I'm lost as to why that could even be a question???

Regardless of what someone things of Jodi Arias - Alyce LaViollette is a hero. She's a woman who's dedicated her life to highlighting domestic abuse. Changing the way society thinks about it. Creating programs that address the problem.

I'm a woman who was never abused. Independent, headstrong (but funny) and very self-aware.

My sister is not.

Today I live with her after a terrible incident that ended 10 years of domestic violence and abuse. The kind that would make most people's hair stand on end. She was battered, raped, degraded and broken in every way you can break a human being. She escaped one night with her kids when her husband tried to kill them all. I came - the big sister. Moved in - helped and stayed and am still helping.

We went through the court process while her (now ex) was charged, tried, convicted and sentenced. The sentence never undid the harm. It never will.

The day Alyce LaViolette took the stand I listened. 5 minutes in - I ran to get my sister. She had to hear what this woman was saying. We stayed glued to the trial during her testimony. We have her book on order at our local book store (currently sold out).

What my sister learned from that testimony was more than she learned from 4 years of reading, therapy, talking, discussing, trying to work things out in her own head and heart.

The trial part - the Jodi Arias issues - they all faded into the background.

I know there are many others out there - abused and abuser alike who heard all that and maybe, just maybe are beginning to understand abuse a bit better.

I don't know Ms Arias. I wasn't present in that bathroom. I don't know what happened. The Prosecutor doesn't either. Nor does Ms Wilmot, nor Kurt Nurmie, nor the doctors who testified, nor the friends, family, police officers. They're all just doing their best to give their insight in the course of justice.

But I do know this. Alyce is an amazing woman. SHE'S not on trial. SHE didn't kill anyone. She gave her professional opinion, in a court of law - and she is certainly entitled to do so - without expecting harm to come to her. I hope she can put the bullies behind her and I wish her all the strength.
Independent, strong-willed, insightful people can become victims of domestic violence too. Abuse is one of those things that truly knows no boundaries. All it takes, in my opinion, is being vulnerable at the wrong time, to the wrong person. The reasons for such a vulnerability are vast.

I've never discounted the life's work of LaViolette. However, I disagree with her premise for a great many reasons. In my estimation, abuse should not ever be defined by a victim's reaction. Yet, that was her validation for disregarding Travis' fear - he didn't react like 'most' stalking victims, even though many don't pursue restraining orders or contact police for various reasons.

Slashing someone's tires, sending threatening emails 'warning' off prospective mates, snooping through another person's texts and social media, sneaking into someone's house to spy on them, taping phone sex that's dripping with manipulation, stealing a person's journals, 'verbalizing' a threat to enact physical violence against another, moving to be closer to someone - post relationship, threatening to expose a person's secrets to others, watching an ex through their windows, likely cyber-stalking that ex, past evidence of explosive episodes, a history of violence, and perpetual victimization - these are all examples of a manipulative, obsessive and controlling personality - that Alyce either did not know or resolutely ignored while reaching her hypothesis. They're all examples, when put together, of behaviors very consistent with an abuse perpetrator.

Further, I do not believe someone can be labeled an abuser by infrequent and isolated incidents of anger alone - especially out of context, in writing. I have not seen personally, nor has anyone testified to, the controlling behaviors that are synonymous with an abuser. Travis did not move Jodi in, propose, isolate her, restrict her access to employment and/or travel, stalk her when she moved back to California - even by proxy, and actually suggested she date others.

I want to believe LaViolette means well and is simply skewed by her decades of experience to see something that may well exist only in the mind of an adept psychopath. But I voraciously disagree that while highlighting abusive behaviors many non-abusers are guilty of, ignoring the very common markers in abusive relationships that are lacking if one is to believe Jodi's accounts, and negating or minimizing controlling behaviors on Jodi's part, she is the standard bearer for intimate partner violence awareness.

That said, while I do disagree, I would never wish her harm or ill will either.
 
Do you think the actual trial will start later because they will all be in chambers? Will the Alexander family have to be in chambers, too?

I really hope she would hear the motions in open court. If she hears them today I suspect it will be a late start.
 
Wilmott will spend at least three hours with his credentials and background.

Were I on the jury I would be shaking my head, another 30 year veteran of the head game. During JM's cross, how long will it be before this one too is screaming "my 30 years of experience"...
 
I think that JW has been so deep in the "World According to JA" that she's drowning in it. I think it became very personal for JW when she looked like a total fool for regarding her point that Lenore Walker no longer uses the 6-point criteria when in fact she does.

I wonder where JW got her information? Was it ALV or from JA and her vast knowledge of DV from all the books and magazines she's read? I think JW had to get someone else on the stand to back herself up. But who would do it? I don't think there and true professional would do it and she turned to ALV's good friend. The good Dr. with 28 years of experience (with all that experience, he must be good, lol). We all know how much years of experience means to JW regardless of what that experience is.
 
Independent, strong-willed, insightful people can become victims of domestic violence too. Abuse is one of those things that truly knows no boundaries. All it takes, in my opinion, is being vulnerable at the wrong time, to the wrong person. The reasons for such a vulnerability are vast.

I've never discounted the life's work of LaViolette. However, I disagree with her premise for a great many reasons. In my estimation, abuse should not ever be defined by a victim's reaction. Yet, that was her validation for disregarding Travis' fear - he didn't react like 'most' stalking victims, even though many don't pursue restraining orders or contact police for various reasons.

Slashing someone's tires, sending threatening emails 'warning' off prospective mates, snooping through another person's texts and social media, sneaking into someone's house to spy on them, taping phone sex that's dripping with manipulation, stealing a person's journals, 'verbalizing' a threat to enact physical violence against another, moving to be closer to someone - post relationship, threatening to expose a person's secrets to others, watching an ex through their windows, likely cyber-stalking that ex, past evidence of explosive episodes, a history of violence, and perpetual victimization - these are all examples of a manipulative, obsessive and controlling personality - that Alyce either did not know or resolutely ignored while reaching her hypothesis. They're all examples, when put together, of behaviors very consistent with an abuse perpetrator.

Further, I do not believe someone can be labeled an abuser by infrequent and isolated incidents of anger alone - especially out of context, in writing. I have not seen personally, nor has anyone testified to, the controlling behaviors that are synonymous with an abuser. Travis did not move Jodi in, propose, isolate her, restrict her access to employment and/or travel, stalk her when she moved back to California - even by proxy, and actually suggested she date others.

I want to believe LaViolette means well and is simply skewed by her decades of experience to see something that may well exist only in the mind of an adept psychopath. But I voraciously disagree that while highlighting abusive behaviors many non-abusers are guilty of, ignoring the very common markers in abusive relationships that are lacking if one is to believe Jodi's accounts, and negating or minimizing controlling behaviors on Jodi's part, she is the standard bearer for intimate partner violence awareness.

That said, while I do disagree, I would never wish her harm or ill will either.

Morning, Kate. Always enjoy your posts. What time is it in England?
 
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