100 questions from the jury: Arias answering on her 17th day on the stand #78

[audreyparker]

I just watched that part of testimony. It was 5.05 gallons of gas. However, the other 2 were not completely full because JA was yapping about "flamability".

If JM was quick enough to check the wal-mart records for the pretend refund of the gas can (of which there is no record), that leads me to believe the 5 gallons went into the 3rd gas can. Any overage could have gone into the first 2.

I also believe other WS's checked to see if there was a mini mart - but it wouldn't have been open at 4 AM (something to that effect).

That's just my speculation though.

Mel

Gas cans hold more than their stated amounts to allow for expansion and over filling. It would have held the amount she paid for with no problem.

 

[Truth Detector]

This is Walmart's policy regarding a return without a receipt, if she didn't use it:

No receipt? No problem
We do accept returns without a receipt. You will have the option of a cash refund (if the purchase was under $25), a shopping card for the amount of the purchase (if it was over $25) or an even exchange for the product. Also, as applicable, we follow any manufacturer’s warranties.

But, there would still be a record of that return and that is what matters. There is no record of the return.

Also note that WMT changes its return policies from time to time and has done so on a number of occasions since June 2008, nearly five years ago.

I still find it more relevant as regards premeditation versus her honesty.

She's already a self-professing liar.

Borrowing the gas cans from DB and suggesting by implication that if JM doesn't believe her that it was DB's idea, then he can ask DB himself. She had the cans AHEAD of time. She may have bought one, two, or three more. It makes little difference.

The reason to have cans at all was so that she wouldn't have to stop for fuel until she was out of Arizona.

Most jurors will never see it any other way.

 

[BrownRice]

For her to say that she doesn't honestly know if she would tell the truth if she hadn't gotten arrested - means that she, STILL to this day, has NO REMORSE for killing Travis.

Well at least she was honest about that question.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

For all the kids I work with, there is a high need for control, no empathy, no conscience. It is a sliding scale - some have serious issues, some are more mild. The nonsense lying is constant. It is a sign that they feel the need to control - like their life literally depends on it. For days, I have seen her have the flat affect and the blank eyes. Sometimes, when she says "I don't remember," I almost see her as dissociating. It is odd. You think about how many times she has said "I don't know" about her own reasons and her own feelings. Often, with my kids, that is the way it is. They literally cannot connect to their feelings enough to know why they did what they did. So much of it is truly reactive. That does not mean there is not planning. They are highly susceptible to tremendous rage and anger at the feeling of abandonment or loss of control - even perceived abandonment or loss of control. They have a very fake exterior. I call it the "china doll." It is the smiley, happy, totally in control face you see when she does all the interviews. It is so skilled it is uncanny. It is totally a survival mechanism that they have learned very early on. Out of all kids, these kids are the most socially adept and good at being believed. Even when flat out lying.

But, today has been different. I have to say it has hit me very hard personally. I got into this field because I adopted a child who has had extreme attachment issues. Due to years of helping my child, I have come to see first hand how hard it is to raise a child with these traits of no empathy and no conscience. Like someone posted the other day, you go round and round with the lies - the endless nonsense lies - even the control on little things like the mayonnaise and mustard. The blank eyes and china doll face. You always hope you can make a difference but daily you face issues like JM has on the stand. But, then there is a point. If you can hang in there and be lovingly therapeutic and outlast the chaos, there is a point that you can get to with these children that the total look of all their bottled up shame comes up. They let down their guard for a few moments and you can see the darkness, anger, rage, and pain they carry. Almost a look of defeat.

I saw that look in Jodi today and, for me as a mom, it was the weirdest feeling. I honestly felt love. I recognized that look as the point on the children I work with when they give up the baloney and know they cannot continue - that the act and fake stuff isn't working. At that point, I know as a mom I can help. Of course, in our home and many others, it is little things like mayonnaise or mustard or lying about who hurt the family dog, not murder. But, at the end of the day, all of my families are working to help our kids get conscience and empathy so that things like this don't happen.

With my child, I wait for that look of defeat, of resignation, to know that my child is willing to trust me to help. So many times, I have had to wait patiently, through lots of stuff, to get to that point. But, the moment my child gives up the act, I know I can help. Often, those are some of our most tender moments. It takes so much for a child who has been significantly hurt (such that he or she forms no attachments) to trust with true emotion. When they will trust you, you have a chance to teach them another way. It is incredibly hard because that has been their sole survival.

Today, when I saw the deflated look, I knew JA knew the jury wasn't buying it. She can tell her way hasn't worked. The shame - not of killing TA - but of how defective and different she is from everyone else has hit her. She knows she is different, fundamentally flawed, but, if she can keep up the act and others will believe the act, she feels on top of the world. When that starts to crack, it is a tremendous fall. For a younger child, it is a point of help. For JA, it is a point of realizing it has not worked.

Sharing alot here. But, I work with families all over the world who have adopted kids with the same issues. I go to court with them to get help. I hold their hands when their child beats them up. I help them deal with the no conscience or empathy. I help protect them when their children physically harm them. I love those families because they do the hardest job in the world. JA has highlighted why we do what we do.

When I saw her deflated look, I knew she knew it was over. Today, instead of dark eyes and the smile, I could see the dark eyes and fallen countenance. I saw the "child" that was stunted many many years ago. While she tries to come across as intelligent and is very sophisticated at the act, she seems to me to be emotionally stunted at a 12 year old level. Today, in her countenance, I could see "behind the curtain" of the wizard of Oz. The grand act came crashing down.

I am not saying she will not try to regain the image. And, I am definitely not saying she will not lie. She has to lie to feel any control at all. She almost can't help it, even on stupid things.

But, today, I could see and so recognized the look. I have seen it many times before. The moment she realized it was done. That the act hadn't worked and that people could see through the fake exterior. For her, that was crushing.


Please don't bash here. It took a lot to share this. Please know that, if you have read the posts, I am huge on accountability for JA. I feel very strongly that she must be held accountable for what she did. When I describe the love and empathy I felt, it surprised even me. It is not a reflection of what I think needs to happen, but a reflection of all the young children I love that show so many traits of JA - lacking conscience, no empathy, rage, violence, non sense lying, no close attachments. Daily, I work with families that fight the good fight, with such small progress, never knowing if their patience and therapeutic parenting will make any dent in the symptoms or not. JA represents the worst outcome for us. Each day, we hope that we can help turn that around for the kids we love so much. When you talk about the mom laughing in the court room, I bet I could speak volumes as to what she has lived with. I don't know her and won't speculate, but if she is anything like the parents I work with, her emotions seem odd because parenting JA was nothing like parenting a typical child. While totally inappropriate in some of her actions, her mother heart forces her to be there until the end, even as her child testifies she is an abuser and they are not close. I bet that mom would have loved the experience of knowing her child really loved her, even once. Just a guess, but sometimes people laugh so they don't cry.

Thanks for letting me share. I hope this is understood the way it was intended. If not, let me clear it up before you jump on me - grin!

Wow, your post is so powerful. I admire the work you do for these families who are devastated by a disordered child.

I speak from experience, and those families are lucky to have someone like you to give them some light when they are making their way through a very dark place. Bless your heart :heart:.

 

[josie1986]

A friend of Travis' on Dr Drew just said Travis would come home from dates and find Jodi in his closet.

Well that is disturbing but nothing I would have put past her

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gypsy Road]

ohhhhhhhhh Charlie on Dr Drew. Former Roommate. I think Charle and Travis parted ways and it was tension?

Did you hear him say that Jodi threw a phone across the room?!

 

[CJae]

And I truely believe that JA is a psychopath!

I know this is one smart jury but I just hope they don't think shes just a nut job that can be re-habbed because there is no cure for sociopathy!

 

[Pensfan]

A friend of Travis' on Dr Drew just said Travis would come home from dates and find Jodi in his closet.

WAAAAAAA? :shiver:

I'm watching the last of the Penguin's game. Thanks for sharing that!

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Were they 24 hour in 2008 too?

Im going to say, no? thats the key

 

[concernedmother]

I dont think she is doing her self any favors turning into a smart azz when Jaun questions her. It shows that Jodi does have a nasty side.

 

[tlcya]

Mormon Attorney

Just that the thank you button was not quite enough.

 

[minor4th]

I think it's huge because Arias just told them hours ago she only lied before the trial started. The rest of the lies were sort of a matter of opinion. This one can be proved (beyond a reasonable doubt). It will nullify ALL of her testimony - she has lost their trust forever. She is toast.

Ok, I seriously hate to rain on the Juan parade, but I listened again and I'm not sure this is as explosive as it seemed. If he has a business record from Walmart, that would be awesome and will lock it down that she lied about returning the gas can -- I had not really understood why she would have lied about this and failed to see the importance. But now I understand that the extra gas can is a whole lot more solid proof of premeditation than 2 gas cans.

I also haven't done the math, but I'm thinking that it would have been impossible for her to have used the amount of gas she says she used -- filling up twice between Pasadena and Mesa, plus 13 extra gallons in the trunk. I hope Juan drives this home on rebuttal.

As far as the Tesoro purchases go, if these turn out to be gas purchases, that's pretty important because of the fact that she tried to conceal the existence and use of the extra gas can. I think it's possible the extra purchase was not gasoline -- all we have right now is an implication, and I'd like to see some solid evidence.

 

[DairyGirl]

As I have pointed out previously, the mysterious 3rd charge to Tosoro in SLC for $20 does NOT mean she purchased gasoline. Tosoro is like a 7-11 - where snacks, drinks, and convenient articles can also be purchased.
I assume JA will claim she bought food at Tosoro for around $20.

That is why JM did the math...$3.859/approx $20=5.09 gallons=size of gas can purchased at Walmart that she claimed to return but didn't. He didn't say she bought 5 gallons of gas, only that it was possible that the charge was for 5 gallons of gas. He is counting on the jury to be able to do the math and also to throw out any story JA might give.

 

[kscornfed]

So everyone's upset about the use of "passing away."

God, that's so offensive!!!

If I were on the jury, when we started to deliberate, I'd say "so....shall we talk about travis passing away?"

Did nurmi say it too?

 

[Candy_Pickletoes]

Does anyone know why Jodi purchased a plane ticket around the same time she got the gas in SLC?

 

[audreyparker]

A friend of Travis' on Dr Drew just said Travis would come home from dates and find Jodi in his closet.

That is really creepy. But I can believe it. It seemed like such an obvious lie when she wrote in her journal that she "accidentally" fell asleep and was at Travis' house when he came home from his date. Yeah, right!

I think Travis was just to nice to flat out say - I don't ever want to see you again, ever and follow through.

 

[Kacey4]

i'm not sure they'll do more jury questions. they already got their chance to question her. it can't go on forever. i'd think we'll start with experts when JM is done with her.

If anything is left of her after he is done with her!

 

[sleuth21]

We now have 2 separate occasions where she had 3 transactions at a gas station. She filled the 2 gas cans separate from the third. She had to have planned to conceal the third from the beginning. I can just imagine how clever she thought she was when premeditating this murder. She really premeditated this. Over-premeditation.

 

[paperwing]

I travel for a living and I can tell you that even the hole in the wall places in SLD stay open all night with access to the inside for nacho's, coffee, etc. It is not quite the same as, say Houston, where they lock themselves into a plexiglass room for protection and lock the doors after 11. SLC has much less crime and I have been desperate for food at 3am.

I have also been back and forth from the city to the airport about a gazillion times. It's quite a drive and there is nothing around the airport. Someone mentioned that it was strange for her to stop in that area.

What about in 2008?

 

[StephanieHartPI]

If you had to guess...do you think Jodi's attorney's did NOT know about the 3 cans or they DID know and hoped it stayed hidden?