17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[OneLove]

Here's what I think happened...

GZ saw TM taking shelter from the rain and then walking eastbound toward the row of homes. GZ honestly thinks he looks suspicious and is up to no good. He calls 911. TM continues walking eastbound toward GZ's car, because that's the way he has to walk to get home. That's when GZ says "he's coming right at me." TM passes and now that he has safely passed GZ and his car, TM starts to pick up speed cause he doesn't like the way GZ has eyed him. They've actually eyed each other. GZ tells the dispatcher TM is running. That's also when TM tells his girlfriend he is being followed. TM gets up onto the sidewalk, still heading east, and makes the southward (right) turn behind the buildings. At this point, GZ is out of the car and himself picking up speed and telling the dispatcher these guys always get away, I think I lost him, have the officer call me when he gets here. GZ gets off the phone. TM remains on the phone with his girl and says to her, as attorney Crump says, I think I lost him. TM is now behind the homes just steps from where he will die, continuing to head south. GZ himself makes the turn south and once again has TM is sight and resumes following him, and now GZ is more convinced than ever that TM is up to no good and should not be allowed to get away. And GZ knows the police will be there soon. GZ is behind TM. Both are moving south. TM turns around and says, "Why are you following me"? GZ then grabs TM. That's when TM's headset falls off, and his GF hears a scuffle, which she has sworn to. In a matter of seconds, the two will be in a life and death struggle. Each thinks the other is the bad guy. GZ shouts for help. The struggle gets even more intense. The gun comes out. Now they are fighting for the gun -- past the point where either of them can defuse the situation. TM cries out for help because he knows it's only going to be so long that he can keep the gun pointed away from him. Four hands are on the gun, the neighbors' calls to 911 are made, the shot goes off and the screaming stops. TM is dead.

I do think this is the likeliest scenario. I think GZ recklessly instigated by being there in the first place, pulled his gun when they scuffled, TM freaked and ran, GZ pushed him from behind, he went down face first with arms under due to trying to break his fall, GZ straddled him and shot him.

I'm so beyond ready for a release of known facts in the investigation. I just want to know what happened. I'm not wanting to lynch anybody, I just want to know what happened.

 

[legalmania]

I wonder if there is anyway they could match his voice through the conversation he was having with his girlfriend?

 

[vlpate]

What was Trayvon defending himself from ? Being watched ?

<snipped>

Thank you - I've asked this so many times. I don't believe GZ freaked Trayvon out, he was 17, not 12. Why did he run if he wasn't doing anything wrong, and if he was running for home, why wasn't he there two minutes later instead of on top of GZ? He lived very close to where GZ last saw him.

 

[codecracker]

I've heard it said Zimmerman said it was himself that was screaming on the tape. Experts refute that. It will be argued here that the screams haven't been matched to Trayvon's voice. True, but we know it's not Zimmerman. Since he got caught in this lie, everything he says from here on in, I will take with a grain of salt.

till we have some expert on GZ's side come out and say its GZ or punch holes in the analysis......I have no faith in the 2nd guy's analysis unless TM's voice hadn't changed he would sound like a man.....and I have listen to first hand and watched videos where grown men are scared and they scream and sound like a kid when they are scared so even if TM's voice had changed that could be either one going by the 2nd guy IMO.....The first analysis sounds credible to a point IMO, but I am sure the other side is preparing right now to punch holes in it and go find their own experts, not that I think this is right trying him in the media, (not that I am innocent not looking for every tidbit)....IMO

as far as GZ being arrested and posting bail, where ever he is he is pretty much locked up, he can't be seen in public with his picture all over, a bounty on his head.....I am sure the Police know exactly where he is, if he is found guilty of anything he will serve his time, rather they lock him up now or a week from now or a month from now IMO doesn't matter as long as he gets a fair trial and if found guilty serves his time, I don't want him lynched or murdered or come to any harm till he gets his day in court JMO,

 

[spamelope]

:banghead:

Good night, everyone. Sweet dreams and thank you for all you do.

 

[marlame]

Vested interest. Family trying to save the life of family. Can't blame them for trying. Not believable though. I also find it somewhat unbelievable that R. Zimmerman, Jr knows what his own screams of "help....help....help.....no, no" sound like. I couldn't say what I would sound like screaming that in those circumstances.

Hearing the words "help....help....help.....no, no"...makes me think Trayvon was looking down the barrel of the gun GZ had pointed at him. It makes me sick.

I'm sorry but I just find GZ's story to be a fabrication to save his < mod snip>.

~ JMHO

 

[Storm]

A bashed in head and broken nose, but no desire for an ambulance? hmm:waitasec:

In Ohio or Indiana, he'd have had to sign a waiver to not be transported. We do not screw around with head injuries...I suspect that they were not anything but scrapes or he didn't mention the "broken nose" and severe head injury. I had a fairly bad car accident last yme comear and they would never have let me come home with a head injury. I was rear-ended several years ago and they gave me no choice. My son who is an M.D. reminded me of all the skiing deaths the last few years...where they didn't realize they were injured...and died within hours..I doubt he had any injuries to his head other than scrapes and I'm sure he didn't tell paramedics it was worse ..they would never have taken him to the station instead of the hospital. IMO. ^i^

 

[jjenny]

I do think this is the likeliest scenario. I think GZ recklessly instigated by being there in the first place, pulled his gun when they scuffled, TM freaked and ran, GZ pushed him from behind, he went down face first with arms under due to trying to break his fall, GZ straddled him and shot him.

I'm so beyond ready for a release of known facts in the investigation. I just want to know what happened. I'm not wanting to lynch anybody, I just want to know what happened.

In that scenario, the bullet would have gone through the back. Which I really doubt is the case, because it would be hard to claim self-defense.

 

[OneLove]

JMO, but it seems to me, cases that are tried in the court of public opinion very often result in not guilty verdicts. OJ and Casey Anthony come immediately to mind.

Why?
Reasonable doubt - voice analysis, could be Trayvon, doubtful it's GZ - spreading like wildfire already.

Damage control - something is afoot and we will be hearing about it soon.

So odd the racial slur has been completely dropped from all dialogue. Soledad O'Brien did an hour on the case Friday night - Crump, JVM, Parks, etc. - didn't come up.

JMO

One very compelling reason to quit mentioning Zimmerman's offensive racial slur is that his use of the word and subsequent fast closing of the case with no investigation (earlier on) generated so much intense frustration to the verge of massive violence that even small quiet communities were readying their riot gear. I'm not sure media wasn't ask to divert attention away from the racial bias component of this killing as a matter of national security.

 

[Storm]

Because if Trayvon was trying to grab the gun then GZ would need to do more than shoot him in the knee or the shoulder. If two people are within inches of each other and wrestling for control of the gun, whomever gets control is going to live, the other will likly be badly wounded.

Which wouldn't even be an issue if GZ realized that black folks can walk and not be suspicious ^i^

 

[legalmania]

Here's what I think happened...

GZ saw TM taking shelter from the rain and then walking eastbound toward the row of homes. GZ honestly thinks he looks suspicious and is up to no good. He calls 911. TM continues walking eastbound toward GZ's car, because that's the way he has to walk to get home. That's when GZ says "he's coming right at me." TM passes and now that he has safely passed GZ and his car, TM starts to pick up speed cause he doesn't like the way GZ has eyed him. They've actually eyed each other. GZ tells the dispatcher TM is running. That's also when TM tells his girlfriend he is being followed. TM gets up onto the sidewalk, still heading east, and makes the southward (right) turn behind the buildings. At this point, GZ is out of the car and himself picking up speed and telling the dispatcher these guys always get away, I think I lost him, have the officer call me when he gets here. GZ gets off the phone. TM remains on the phone with his girl and says to her, as attorney Crump says, I think I lost him. TM is now behind the homes just steps from where he will die, continuing to head south. GZ himself makes the turn south and once again has TM is sight and resumes following him, and now GZ is more convinced than ever that TM is up to no good and should not be allowed to get away. And GZ knows the police will be there soon. GZ is behind TM. Both are moving south. TM turns around and says, "Why are you following me"? GZ then grabs TM. That's when TM's headset falls off, and his GF hears a scuffle, which she has sworn to. In a matter of seconds, the two will be in a life and death struggle. Each thinks the other is the bad guy. GZ shouts for help. The struggle gets even more intense. The gun comes out. Now they are fighting for the gun -- past the point where either of them can defuse the situation. TM cries out for help because he knows it's only going to be so long that he can keep the gun pointed away from him. Four hands are on the gun, the neighbors' calls to 911 are made, the shot goes off and the screaming stops. TM is dead.

Wouldn't they each be trying to point the gun away from themselves? For some reason I just feel Zimmerman had time to aim and fire. IMO I think when Martin saw the gun he lunged at Zimmerman, Zimmerman was falling backwards as Martin fell on top of him, but that still doesn't explain the lack of blood. With a 9mm there should be a lot of blood everywhere. Maybe LE took the shirt Zimmerman was wearing as evidence?

 

[TonyGatto]

I do think this is the likeliest scenario. I think GZ recklessly instigated by being there in the first place, pulled his gun when they scuffled, TM freaked and ran, GZ pushed him from behind, he went down face first with arms under due to trying to break his fall, GZ straddled him and shot him.

I'm so beyond ready for a release of known facts in the investigation. I just want to know what happened. I'm not wanting to lynch anybody, I just want to know what happened.

I don't think GZ is a cold-blooded killer. I don't think he was looking to murder someone that night. I agree with you he was overzealous. There is no scenario that I can think of where TM attacked GZ. I totally believe what the girlfriend has sworn to under the penalty of perjury. The worst that TM did, in my opinion, was maybe stop to ask GZ why he was following him, rather than high tail it the few remaining feet home. Maybe he did that because he was now in close proximity to people in their homes -- which were facing him from either side. He may have heard voices, sounds in the kitchen, the family dog. But in no way do I believe TM layed in wait and attacked GZ. It's just not credible or reasonable.

 

[highflyer]

<snipped>

Thank you - I've asked this so many times. I don't believe GZ freaked Trayvon out, he was 17, not 12. Why did he run if he wasn't doing anything wrong, and if he was running for home, why wasn't he there two minutes later instead of on top of GZ? He lived very close to where GZ last saw him.

Really? Some strange man is following you and that wouldn't freak you out?

 

[codecracker]

LE and military are taught to shoot to kill, George wanted to be a cop, so he probably knows this. And maybe he didn't want to leave Trayvon as a witness to tell his side of what really happened. JMO

as a police officer you are taught to aim for the biggest mass when is the chest, however that isn't shot to kill, you shot to stop the threat, if you come at a cop with a knife and he shots at you doesn't kill you and you drop the knife he doesn't get to keep shooting you till your dead. Just so you know they do also teach you head shots in case the guy has a vest and he keeps coming at you.

As far as leaving Trayvon as a witness to what???? If Trayvon wasn't shot and killed....you have he said, he said assault at most.

 

[jjenny]

as a police officer you are taught to aim for the biggest mass when is the chest, however that isn't shot to kill, you shot to stop the threat, if you come at a cop with a knife and he shots at you doesn't kill you and you drop the knife he doesn't get to keep shooting you till your dead. Just so you know they do also teach you head shots in case the guy has a vest and he keeps coming at you.

As far as leaving Trayvon as a witness to what???? If Trayvon wasn't shot and killed....you have he said, he said assault at most.

That's exactly right. Police are thought to shoot in the body mass because it's harder to hit an arm or a leg and if they miss, they can hit the bystander.

 

[OneLove]

In that scenario, the bullet would have gone through the back. Which I really doubt is the case, because it would be hard to claim self-defense.

Yeah, kinda like no one would question self defense if HE was the one yelling for help. Oh, oops, guess that one isn't going to fly either. I guess we'll see how many experts weigh in on the cries for help and who made them.

And on the bullet in the back, is the fact that would shoot a hole in a self defense claim the ONLY reason you doubt that ? I personally have no clue whether the shot came from the front or back. No one has officially released that information yet. I can't imagine why; they have known from before he was buried. Is it because it would be inflammatory? I don't know why that is being withheld.

 

[legalmania]

I don't think GZ is a cold-blooded killer. I don't think he was looking to murder someone that night. I agree with you he was overzealous. There is no scenario that I can think of where TM attacked GZ. I totally believe what the girlfriend has sworn to under the penalty of perjury. The worst that TM did, in my opinion, was maybe stop to ask GZ why he was following him, rather than high tail it the few remaining feet home. Maybe he did that because he was now in close proximity to people in their homes -- which were facing him from either side. He may have heard voices, sounds in the kitchen, the family dog. But in no way do I believe TM layed in wait and attacked GZ. It's just not credible or reasonable.

I think Zimmerman was tired of the crime around there and wanted it to stop. He just went about it in the wrong way.

 

[TonyGatto]

If TM was bashing GZ's head into the ground -- how was he accomplishing this? GZ has no hair. We are to believe that TM palmed GZ's face and -- in the struggle -- was able to pull up, slam down, pull up and slam down. Given the police video of a pretty ok GZ, no blood, canceling the ambulance, it's just not going to fly that GZ is telling the truth on this count.

 

[OneLove]

which wouldn't even be an issue if gz realized that black folks can walk and not be suspicious ^i^

thank y o u !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[codecracker]

JMO, but it seems to me, cases that are tried in the court of public opinion very often result in not guilty verdicts. OJ and Casey Anthony come immediately to mind.

Why?
Reasonable doubt - voice analysis, could be Trayvon, doubtful it's GZ - spreading like wildfire already.

Damage control - something is afoot and we will be hearing about it soon.

So odd the racial slur has been completely dropped from all dialogue. Soledad O'Brien did an hour on the case Friday night - Crump, JVM, Parks, etc. - didn't come up.

JMO

that is why the prosecutor wants the press to stop interviewing witnesses because every story they tell could be use against them when and if they testified and that story changes....and the defense will use ever story the witness told....if they wrote out one story that night to the police, changed it when talking on tv, and then its different on the stand, even a little bit the defense will play on it to discredit witnesses....JMO