17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[CHICANA]

That is true. But it is not ILLEGAL for GZ to be walking in that area at that time, even being armed. He is not doing anything illegal at that time. And this is why it is so important to find out conclusively WHO threw the first punch or who shoved who first.

Because if GZ was simply following TM and waiting for LE to arrive, and TM swung on him first, then there is no legal reason for a murder conviction,imo.

Also, did TM wait until he saw that GZ wasn't on the phone before attacking him ?

 

[TonyGatto]

I can think of some ways the younger brother may not have heard or saw what was going on. Perhaps the drapes were closed, he was playing a video game (my son wears headphones playing video games) or listening to music, or he just wasn't watching or looking out the windows. JMO

“I have never seen a crime scene cleaned up so fast,” Trayvon’s father, Tracy Martin, told The Miami Herald. He came home that night just before 11 p.m. and saw no trace of a crime. It was not until he called police the next morning that a major crimes detective went to the townhouse where his girlfriend lives to break the news.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/31/2725442_p4/what-is-known-what-isnt-about.html#storylink=cpy

 

[CHICANA]

If TM was up to no good, let's say casing houses for the purpose of a possible burglary, do you think he would be on the phone with his girlfriend while doing so?

It's possible. Could up the cool factor for a teen ? IDK, I've learned to never underestimate teenagers thanks to my now 21 year old daughter.

 

[OneLove]

I can only imagine what life is going to be for George and his family if this new investigation comes to a close and they say he did in fact act in self defense.

His life is never going to be the same. Nobody wins in this case, no matter what the outcome.

TM's family has lost their son and GZ has lost pretty much his freedom.

Sad situation all around.

I dont believe they can prove Zimmerman acted in self defense. I believe they could say they can't prove he DIDN'T act in self defense. So, yes, that casts a cloud forever. The irony is that now Zimmerman himself will be the one that is "suspected" forever. I wonder if he now wishes he had never gotten out of that car.

 

[legalmania]

I can only imagine what life is going to be for George and his family if this new investigation comes to a close and they say he did in fact act in self defense.

His life is never going to be the same. Nobody wins in this case, no matter what the outcome.

TM's family has lost their son and GZ has lost pretty much his freedom.

Sad situation all around.

I feel bad for both families also, but when you carry a gun, drive a car certain responsibilities comes with that. I'm wondering if anyone knows if this development had a homeowners association? Did they know that Zimmerman was caring a gun?

 

[LolaMoon08]

As I was reading how Trayvon and his girlfriend would be on the phone, it really made me think? This poor girl? She's only 15-years-old, right? Young love is such a powerful emotion. Especially for girls. We can easily toss it aside and call it puppy love, but to them, it's so much more.

It really makes me sad thinking this could have been her first love and that her first strong emotions of love towards another human being were followed by feelings of extreme loss. The confusion and hurt she must be feeling in her heart almost brings me to tears. She'll be forever scarred from this. Knowing that she was on the phone with him for the last moments he would have here on this earth? Agony.

 

[highflyer]

I can only imagine what life is going to be for George and his family if this new investigation comes to a close and they say he did in fact act in self defense.

His life is never going to be the same. Nobody wins in this case, no matter what the outcome.

TM's family has lost their son and GZ has lost pretty much his freedom.

Sad situation all around.

GZ's life should never be the same. He shot and killed a teenager on a candy run. That teenager has now been shown to be the one screaming in terror for his life on tape.

 

[katydid23]

So I am curious about a possibility. Understand this is just a possibility, please don't misrepresent my comments as saying I think this is what happened.

Another poster earlier mentioned Trayvon as having played ball with some of the kids living up closer to the clubhouse and that maybe he was looking around to see if any were home so he could seek shelter from the rain with them. I've observed several seemingly unrelated things that might look different if they all converged into one perfect storm.

Could GZ have seen Trayvon around the complex before, maybe hanging with his 20 year old cousin, maybe playing ball with the younger kids?

GZ was known to be aggravated by playing kids. He was reported to follow other residents home in a threatening-like demeanor. He seemed to like feeling that he ruled and could intimidate people into staying out of his way. Remember, all he had to do was call LE and he did this HOW many times?

Might he have actually seen and known who Trayvon was before calling 911 that night? Might Trayvon have refused to do GZ's required song and dance, maybe 'disrespected' him when he tried to bully the younger kids? Might the "@ssholes who always got away" and "not this one" actually have been designed to set Trayvon specifically up to look like a burglar for doing nothing more than refusing to cowtow to GZ's bullying? Might his leading statements to the 911 dispatcher on the phone been setting up an alibi for an act he had already decided to commit?

Because if the recording of Trayvon's last moments, which I'm sure GZ didn't count on, bears out his practically begging for his life, yelling for help, saying no, no right before being shot face down while GZ straddled him (please, these are IFs), then I'm not sure I could ever believe there hadn't been SOME prior event that enraged GZ enough to do this.

It's just a thought, but it sure could explain some inextricably unexplainable odd things that GZ said and did that don't make sense to many of us.

But, now, don't go saying I've convicted him, because I haven't. I'm just posing these questions.

BBm

But TM didn't seem to know who GZ was. That was one reason he was so scared.

But what you said above, about him maybe looking around for some of his BBall friends houses---maybe he was doing that, and it made GZ even more suspicious.

And it is interesting that you place GZ straddling him before the shooting, because I thought the witness said that TM was on the top hitting GZ?

Anyway, if they were wrestling and struggling for control of the gun then it wouldn't matter if they didn't know each other before, imo. It would be a life and death struggle.

 

[legalmania]

Found this video of Trayvons Father explaining his sons last footsteps.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

 

[jjenny]

GZ's life should never be the same. He shot and killed a teenager on a candy run. That teenager has now been shown to be the one screaming in terror for his life on tape.

That clearly is incorrect statement, since they haven't shown Trayvon's voice was a match to a person screaming on 911 call.

 

[OneLove]

I feel bad for both families also, but when you carry a gun, drive a car certain responsibilities comes with that. I'm wondering if anyone knows if this development had a homeowners association? Did they know that Zimmerman was caring a gun?

Speaking of homeowners associations, ours started participating in a neighborhood watch program sponsored by local law enforcement. It consists of a sign in the neighborhood saying we participate in a neighborhood watch, lol, and mostly neighbors being neighborly with each other, like calling to be sure they are ok if no cars seen for a few days or garage door left open accidentally. No one yet has called 911, but we do call each other and make sure we all have each other's contact info. I know our 911 and law enforcement would gag if anyone called saying a guy was walking down the road wearing a hoodie (not even a fashion item here) and looking "suspicious".

That makes me think of GZ calling 911 about a neighbor's window being open instead of just asking the neighbor if they knew their window was up.

 

[highflyer]

That clearly is incorrect statement, since they haven't shown Trayvon's voice was a match to a person screaming on 911 call.

Unless you are injecting a third person into this equation then it was indeed Trayvon.

 

[jjenny]

Unless you are injecting a third person into this equation then it was indeed Trayvon.

That's only if the method they are using is accurate. They are trying to match a tape of someone screaming to a tape of someone talking. What if they had a sample of Trayvon's voice and that had a low match as well?

 

[highflyer]

That's only if the method they are using is accurate.

Will be looking forward to FBI voice identification test results.

 

[OneLove]

That clearly is incorrect statement, since they haven't shown Trayvon's voice was a match to a person screaming on 911 call.

Well, technically you are correct that no official professional has yet come out and confirmed it was for sure Trayvon's voice. But since they have confirmed it is not Zimmerman's, then REASONABLE logic says it is very highly likely Trayvon's. So.......

 

[marlame]

So I am curious about a possibility. Understand this is just a possibility, please don't misrepresent my comments as saying I think this is what happened.

Another poster earlier mentioned Trayvon as having played ball with some of the kids living up closer to the clubhouse and that maybe he was looking around to see if any were home so he could seek shelter from the rain with them. I've observed several seemingly unrelated things that might look different if they all converged into one perfect storm.

Could GZ have seen Trayvon around the complex before, maybe hanging with his 20 year old cousin, maybe playing ball with the younger kids?

GZ was known to be aggravated by playing kids. He was reported to follow other residents home in a threatening-like demeanor. He seemed to like feeling that he ruled and could intimidate people into staying out of his way. Remember, all he had to do was call LE and he did this HOW many times?

Might he have actually seen and known who Trayvon was before calling 911 that night? Might Trayvon have refused to do GZ's required song and dance, maybe 'disrespected' him when he tried to bully the younger kids? Might the "@ssholes who always got away" and "not this one" actually have been designed to set Trayvon specifically up to look like a burglar for doing nothing more than refusing to cowtow to GZ's bullying? Might his leading statements to the 911 dispatcher on the phone been setting up an alibi for an act he had already decided to commit?

Because if the recording of Trayvon's last moments, which I'm sure GZ didn't count on, bears out his practically begging for his life, yelling for help, saying no, no right before being shot face down while GZ straddled him (please, these are IFs), then I'm not sure I could ever believe there hadn't been SOME prior event that enraged GZ enough to do this.

It's just a thought, but it sure could explain some inextricably unexplainable odd things that GZ said and did that don't make sense to many of us.

But, now, don't go saying I've convicted him, because I haven't. I'm just posing these questions.

BBM~ Well, according to this article it looks like we have an answer...

Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say :what:
"...His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

 

[spamelope]

I've heard it said Zimmerman said it was himself that was screaming on the tape. Experts refute that. It will be argued here that the screams haven't been matched to Trayvon's voice. True, but we know it's not Zimmerman. Since he got caught in this lie, everything he says from here on in, I will take with a grain of salt.

 

[legalmania]

Speaking of homeowners associations, ours started participating in a neighborhood watch program sponsored by local law enforcement. It consists of a sign in the neighborhood saying we participate in a neighborhood watch, lol, and mostly neighbors being neighborly with each other, like calling to be sure they are ok if no cars seen for a few days or garage door left open accidentally. No one yet has called 911, but we do call each other and make sure we all have each other's contact info. I know our 911 and law enforcement would gag if anyone called saying a guy was walking down the road wearing a hoodie (not even a fashion item here) and looking "suspicious".

That makes me think of GZ calling 911 about a neighbor's window being open instead of just asking the neighbor if they knew their window was up.

Trayvons Father was calling it home. So I just wonder if Trayvon was there a lot because you would think Zimmerman would know who the father and son were and where they lived. My neighborhood is like yours we all know each others phone number and know when a strange car or they have company.

 

[CHICANA]

Yes, thank you, and Trayvon would have had no need to defend himself if Zimmerman had not been behind the homes tracking him, if indeed he even DID defend himself.

But why can't he track him or watch him ? What was Trayvon defending himself from ? Being watched ?
I don't understand why GZ didn't identify himself though. Was there some reason he couldn't say I'm with the Neighborhood Watch Program and I don't recognize you as a resident here ?
Maybe, please wait for an officer to provide some ID to prove you're not trespassing ? It doesn't change anything in regards to the stand your ground laws but maybe better training of NW volunteers could prevent another tragedy.

 

[Bee Happy]

I am certainly not a believer in GZ, but I do understand what is being said about the voice analyzing.

They have determined that it's not GZ.
But they haven't determined it's not TM.
If they could take a sample of TM and found that it wasn't a match, it could mean the test was just inaccurate all around. Without matching to TM, we can't know that.