17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[deelytful1]

I think that is what his story has been and will continue to be. And i think he will be charged with manslaughter and not murder because of that, which will be very dangerous for those of us in urban centers.
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“He prevented his firearm from being taken from him and used against him -- and that's called saving your life,” Zimmerman Jr. told Morgan, a night after his father Robert Zimmerman told Fox’s Orlando outlet “that Trayvon Martin got on top of [George] and just started beating him.”

Wow... guess I missed that. Story seems to have changed a bit since I first started following the case...

Unfortunate that if GZ had not brought a gun into the situation perhaps both their lives would have remained unchanged and they could both be going about their daily lives right now.

 

[OneLove]

If Zimmerman heeded the dispatcher's suggestion not to follow TM, how would you explain how and why he ended up behind the homes where he shot TM?

Yes, thank you, and Trayvon would have had no need to defend himself if Zimmerman had not been behind the homes tracking him, if indeed he even DID defend himself.

 

[codecracker]

Why didn't Zimmerman just shoot Trayvon in the shoulder, or his arm or a knee! ???? That would have stopped him if as he claims, TM was attacking him. He didn't claim the murder was accidental... (the gun just went off) He is claiming he killed with intent but it was self defense...
Why not just maim in intent? Trayvon didn't have a gun or a knife....

According to GZ they were struggling for the gun when he shot him, TM was on top of him according to GZ and he pulled the gun and fired. If you haven't ever shot a gun or pistol, its not as easy as they make it on TV to shot someone in the arm or leg then you add that to the fact they were SUPPOSE to be on the ground struggling when the gun was fired.

 

[TonyGatto]

GZ stated in his 911 call that TM was suspicious, up to no good, possibly high on drugs. Why then would GZ not stay on the phone with police until they arrived on the scene. Instead he allows the call to end and tells the dispatcher to have the officer call him upon arrival.

 

[legalmania]

There were some awesome maps by other posters in previous threads; if you search each thread using "map" as the keyword they will come up. But for this discussion, I'm using Google:

Google map of condo complex

Zoom in two clicks. The clubhouse with pool is clear; the mailbox hut is right where it says "1110" on the map. The main entrance is to the north, where Oregon Ave makes a T with Twin Trees. The back entrance is south and east. I do not know if we have final word on where GZ's SUV was located, but assume somewhere along the dogleg that Twin Trees makes around the lake.

I hope that helps!

Thanks so much. I hope the awesome maps you're talking about are not the stick figure ones. While those were interesting, I just like something a little more concrete.

 

[FLmom777]

I can't tell who's screaming, IMO, It's very hard to tell.

I also have no idea what TM's voice sounds like, only what GZ's voice sounds like.

SIAP but my assumption is that tm's voice could be found on his voice mail message.

 

[m00c0w]

Wow.. that makes NO sense to me... Your post does... the concept does NOT

I'll go into a little bit more of an elaborate response.

First, you have the legal principal. You are only supposed to use deadly force when in fear of your life. If you were to purposefully only injure someone, it could reasonably be inferred that you should never have used deadly force to begin with.

Second, you have the actual logistics of a self-defense shooting. In most instances, it all occurs very fast with very little aiming. Appendages are hard to hit. You're taught to aim center-mass because it's the largest part of the body. You have less of a risk of missing the target and hitting someone or something else, because you have a bigger surface area to hit. A lot of people also don't realize that you have this giant artery running down both upper legs called the femoral artery. Hitting this artery will pretty much guarantee death. Even worse, the brachial artery runs through the shoulder area and down the upper arm. If you manage to hit that in the shoulder region, all bets are pretty much off. You can't even tourniquet it off like you could with a femoral artery hit.

When you use deadly force, you intend to kill the person. Your main priority should be putting rounds on target and not around the target. This means aiming for the chest/trunk of the body.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, thank you, and Trayvon would have had no need to defend himself if Zimmerman had not been behind the homes tracking him, if indeed he even DID defend himself.

That is true. But it is not ILLEGAL for GZ to be walking in that area at that time, even being armed. He is not doing anything illegal at that time. And this is why it is so important to find out conclusively WHO threw the first punch or who shoved who first.

Because if GZ was simply following TM and waiting for LE to arrive, and TM swung on him first, then there is no legal reason for a murder conviction,imo.

 

[uvamerica]

Wow.. that makes NO sense to me... Your post does... the concept does NOT

LE and military are taught to shoot to kill, George wanted to be a cop, so he probably knows this. And maybe he didn't want to leave Trayvon as a witness to tell his side of what really happened. JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Another reason some people shoot to kill instead of maim to stop the attack is that dead men tell no stories, do not live to sue, and some licensed-conceal instructors tell their students to do this exact thing, for these exact reasons.

You are now protected from civil liability due to stand your ground laws. That's no longer applicable in SYG states, like Florida.

 

[deelytful1]

According to GZ they were struggling for the gun when he shot him, TM was on top of him according to GZ and he pulled the gun and fired. If you haven't ever shot a gun or pistol, its not as easy as they make it on TV to shot someone in the arm or leg then you add that to the fact they were SUPPOSE to be on the ground struggling when the gun was fired.

Thanks.. I just think it really odd that GZ was stalking (MY word.. don't ask for links LOL) TM with a gun no less. TM ends up dead because of GZ's gun and GZ is walking away free (so far).
IMO TM was not asking for trouble.... and GZ had a gun. Makes NOOO sense to me that GZ is walking around a free man.

 

[deelytful1]

Thanks TonyGatto...
My heart breaks at thinking how close to home, the game, a warm bed and his family he truly was....

 

[LolaMoon08]

I read on the Miami Herald that Trayvon talked on the phone for 5 hours.

but this article says that he talked to his GF for 6 1/2 hours.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/us/trayvon-martin-profile/index.html

Young, innocent love. :blowkiss:


:sigh:

 

[uvamerica]

I can think of some ways the younger brother may not have heard or saw what was going on. Perhaps the drapes were closed, he was playing a video game (my son wears headphones playing video games) or listening to music, or he just wasn't watching or looking out the windows. JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Waiting for that great map to come back. LOL LOL

 

[ynotdivein]

Please reference the first post in this thread.

We are not currently allowing anything other than MSM links.

Posters are free to sleuth and speculate here, including mapping possible scenarios. Links for maps and supporting evidence though, must come from MSM. Posters can also create their own maps.

Where this post lands is random.

 

[spamelope]

Forensic voice identification is not a new or novel concept; in fact, a recent U.S. Department of Justice committee report notes that federal interest in the technology "has a history of nearly 70 years."

In the post 9-11 world, Owen says, voice identification is "the main biometric tool" used to track international criminals, as well as terrorists.

"These people don't leave fingerprints, but they do still need to talk to one another," he says.

'The home run'

Though the term "biometric analysis" may sound futuristic, it basically just means using personal characteristics for identification. A fingerprint scanner is an example of a biometric device.

Much as the ridges of a human hand produce a fingerprint, each human voice has unique, distinguishable traits, Owen says. "They're all particular to the individual."

Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call.
SBM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-george-zimmerman-911-20120331,0,250481.story

 

[OneLove]

So I am curious about a possibility. Understand this is just a possibility, please don't misrepresent my comments as saying I think this is what happened.

Another poster earlier mentioned Trayvon as having played ball with some of the kids living up closer to the clubhouse and that maybe he was looking around to see if any were home so he could seek shelter from the rain with them. I've observed several seemingly unrelated things that might look different if they all converged into one perfect storm.

Could GZ have seen Trayvon around the complex before, maybe hanging with his 20 year old cousin, maybe playing ball with the younger kids?

GZ was known to be aggravated by playing kids. He was reported to follow other residents home in a threatening-like demeanor. He seemed to like feeling that he ruled and could intimidate people into staying out of his way. Remember, all he had to do was call LE and he did this HOW many times?

Might he have actually seen and known who Trayvon was before calling 911 that night? Might Trayvon have refused to do GZ's required song and dance, maybe 'disrespected' him when he tried to bully the younger kids? Might the "@ssholes who always got away" and "not this one" actually have been designed to set Trayvon specifically up to look like a burglar for doing nothing more than refusing to cowtow to GZ's bullying? Might his leading statements to the 911 dispatcher on the phone been setting up an alibi for an act he had already decided to commit?

Because if the recording of Trayvon's last moments, which I'm sure GZ didn't count on, bears out his practically begging for his life, yelling for help, saying no, no right before being shot face down while GZ straddled him (please, these are IFs), then I'm not sure I could ever believe there hadn't been SOME prior event that enraged GZ enough to do this.

It's just a thought, but it sure could explain some inextricably unexplainable odd things that GZ said and did that don't make sense to many of us.

But, now, don't go saying I've convicted him, because I haven't. I'm just posing these questions.

 

[TonyGatto]

If TM was up to no good, let's say casing houses for the purpose of a possible burglary, do you think he would be on the phone with his girlfriend while doing so?

 

[iluvmua]

I can only imagine what life is going to be for George and his family if this new investigation comes to a close and they say he did in fact act in self defense.

His life is never going to be the same. Nobody wins in this case, no matter what the outcome.

TM's family has lost their son and GZ has lost pretty much his freedom.

Sad situation all around.