17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #30

[m00c0w]

I think where people are misunderstanding each other is that it IS hearsay as far as what Trayvon told HER about what GZ was doing or saying. What she heard independently of that is a different story. She can also describe what noises she heard, how afraid Trayvon sounded and what Trayvon said to her and to GZ.
She can also verify that was TM's voice on the phone, describe what his mood was like before the encounter, etc...etc..

No matter what, I still think hearsay or not, her testimony will be admissible. (under one of the hearsay exceptions)

You beat me to it. Thanks.

 

[HiHater]

Because it's not clear when they arrived at actual scene. From the report, 19:17 is when one of them got dispatched while the other just arrived at the complex. And then parked his car and canvassed the area. Unless you know how long it took him to park his car and canvass the area, how do you know the time he was at the actual scene?

You're choosing to ignore the fact that at least one officer was already en route because of the suspicious person call.

It is clear when they arrived on scene...it couldn't be any more clear than what the report says.

 

[jjenny]

The only dispatch time in the police reports is 1917. Perhaps that has to do with the fact that the call changed from a suspicious person to shots fired.

Either way, the report says 1917. That's what we have as a fact, no matter how much time you think it should have actually taken.

I think it's pretty clear from the report itself 19:17 is arrival time at the complex not the scene.

 

[csziggy]

I think we have a problem here in that the police were already on their way. Long before 19:17. When GZ was on the phone with non-emergency they were already dispatched and GZ was told 2x in that call that they were on the way.

How long was that taped conversation with GZ? Anyone? I thought in the early days of our sleuthing it was determined the first officer arrived at 40 seconds after the shooting.

GZ's call to SPD connected at 19:09:34 and the recording I timed was 4:11 long. The last entry the dispatcher made (about GZ wanting a call) was entered on the log at 19:13:41. I've been using that as the disconnect time since that's only 4 seconds off the recording length added to the connect time.

Aside from the length of the recording, the times were taken from the call log of GZ's call on 2/26, from the 911 call history of GZ downloaded from the Sanford web site before they removed everything.

Also from that log are the times for the officers, I believe. Tsmith is listed as S2711 and shows as ARR at 19:17:11, PEU at 19:17:36. I'm not sure what those three letters codes are - maybe arrived and police exiting unit? Ayala as S1312 is PEU at 19:19:52.

I'm sure that 911 call history PDF is still somewhere available for download, but I don't have a link.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[Desdemona]

MOM thought GZ bond should have been 15k, the state thought it should be a million. It turned out to be 10x what the defense wanted and 7x less then what the State wanted.

Just catching up, sorry if this has been mentioned, but...

He was granted $150,000.

Wouldn't the halfway point have been like, half a million? :wink:

 

[HiHater]

I think it's pretty clear from the report itself 19:17 is arrival time at the complex not the scene.

Verbatim from the report:

As I arrived on SCENE.

 

[mommakk51]

I don't know why it's generally believed LE was on the scene 1 minute after the shooting. LE don't say they were on the scene 1 minute after the shooting.

I believe that Ofc. Timothy Smith's statement said that he arrived at 7:17 and the Alaya said he arrived 1-2 minutes later.


:moo::moo:

 

[jjenny]

Verbatim from the report:

As I arrived on SCENE.

And then he exited a car and canvassed the area. Clearly he considers the whole complex a "scene."

 

[jjenny]

I believe that Ofc. Timothy Smith's statement said that he arrived at 7:17 and the Alaya said he arrived 1-2 minutes later.


:moo::moo:

It's obvious that what he calls a "scene" is the complex. Because then he says he parked his car and started canvassing the area. He clearly didn't show up in his car and parked it right where the fight was.

 

[csziggy]

I took that as a metaphor, not a literal recounting of what happened at this crime.

Having watched the video and having seen the expressions in the couple's eyes, I take it as literal. They were held at gunpoint and arrested for taking possession of their house. Not a good introduction to that neighborhood at all.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[HiHater]

I believe that Ofc. Timothy Smith's statement said that he arrived at 7:17 and the Alaya said he arrived 1-2 minutes later.


:moo::moo:

And by the time Ofc Ayala arrived, Ofc Smith already had GZ in custody. So the canvassing of the area didn't take too long...


JMO

Report:
http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

 

[LynnM]

then maybe only parts of her testimony will be hearsay? Because she did hear what the man said, but she has no direct knowledge that he was actually following Trayvon...

JMO

Yes, I agree. I was specifically referring to what she reporting hearing Trayvon say to the unknown-to-her man and what that man said to Trayvon just before the phone went dead.

My original post was:

"It's not hearsay at all. She is a witness She heard what Trayvon said and the unknown-to-her man said at the beginning of the final confrontation. Her phone records and Trayvon's phone records have undoubtedly been subpoenaed to confirm that the call took place.

I find her a very believable witness. If she wanted to lie to try to settle the matter, it seems to me she would have had Zimmerman saying something like, oh I don't know, "You're going to die tonight" rather than what she reported."

 

[KateNY]

The pic.... who took the pic of GZ bleading head boo-boos right after the shooting ( ? and before LE arrives)

Frank knows:waitasec:

First of all, to you, Mr. Taaffe, do you believe it helped George Zimmerman to take the stand today?

TAAFFE: Absolutely. George is being George. Nancy, a couple weeks ago you wanted to see blood on a shirt. Now you have blood on the head. So, America, you have your blood. I`m also going to share with you this, that was a photo of George Zimmerman, and I know who the neighbor was that took it. And he came forward only to support George Zimmerman. And more of our neighbors are coming out --

GRACE: So, I`m taking it to believe --

TAAFFE: Are coming out to support him. They are going to support him.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/ng.01.html

 

[jjenny]

And by the time Ofc Ayala arrived, Ofc Smith already had GZ in custody. So the canvassing of the area didn't take too long...


JMO

Report:
http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

Zimmerman doesn't look to be in custody at the time the photo was taken.

 

[m00c0w]

Having watched the video and having seen the expressions in the couple's eyes, I take it as literal. They were held at gunpoint and arrested for taking possession of their house. Not a good introduction to that neighborhood at all.

IMO, JMO, etc.

I agree. I was just pointing out that they may not very well be charged with anything if they were just "showing" the guns. However, it looks like a threat was made. I actually would not be surprised if they were arrested for aggravated assault.

I mean, it was obviously an older dude and his wife, not a common criminal. People like that give gun owners a bad name.

 

[HiHater]

And then he exited a car and canvassed the area. Clearly he considers the whole complex a "scene."

Even though what you're saying is not what the officer(s) wrote, you keep using words like "obviously" and "clearly"...:waitasec:

Sometimes people say/write exactly what they mean...

 

[HiHater]

Zimmerman doesn't look to be in custody at the time the photo was taken.

That's exactly the point, and my question was WHY.

 

[jjenny]

Even though what you're saying is not what the officer(s) wrote, you keep using words like "obviously" and "clearly"...:waitasec:

Sometimes people say/write exactly what they mean...

He arrived at the scene, parked his car and started to canvass his area. So what does he mean by "scene?" Did he say he arrived at the scene and saw a man on the ground? No. He says he arrived, parked, started to canvass the area. What am I supposed to conclude?

 

[HiHater]

Yes, I agree. I was specifically referring to what she reporting hearing Trayvon say to the unknown-to-her man and what that man said to Trayvon just before the phone went dead.

My original post was:

"It's not hearsay at all. She is a witness She heard what Trayvon said and the unknown-to-her man said at the beginning of the final confrontation. Her phone records and Trayvon's phone records have undoubtedly been subpoenaed to confirm that the call took place.

I find her a very believable witness. If she wanted to lie to try to settle the matter, it seems to me she would have had Zimmerman saying something like, oh I don't know, "You're going to die tonight" rather than what she reported."

Got ya.

And I think her credibility is increased because GZ and Trayvon did exchange words. What they said is up for debate, but GZ has a lot more reason to lie than she does IMO.

Does anyone know if it was public knowledge that the two exchanged words before she came forward?

 

[jjenny]

That's exactly the point, and my question was WHY.

Well at least to me it's clear 19:17 is the time one of the officers arrived at the complex itself. However long it took him to park and canvass the area should be added to the time when he arrived at the actual scene of the fight.