17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #30

[CathyinTexas]

Maybe Zimmerman was attacked by a mysterious gunman, too. Even Cutcher, who was allegedly right there, didn't know Zimmerman was the shooter.

That is understandable because she did not see GZ shoot Trayvon. It makes sense that she saw a man touching TM and thought he might be trying to render aid and maybe she thought at that moment the shooter had fled. Then it became evident to her that GZ was the shooter. She also is adamant that she heard Trayvon crying in terror. I think she will make a good witness.

 

[HiHater]

Yet reading the actual report it's obvious he was not on the scene at 19:17. He says he was dispatched at approximately 19:17 and while at route dispatch advised him they were receiving reports about shots fired.
So it's obvious he was not on the scene at 19:17 because the shot was seconds before 19:17 and he was still at route and being advised of shots. At 19:17 he was dispatched and was advised of shots fired. It would take him time to park, get out of the car, get to the scene, etc, etc, etc.

The second officer says:

On 2/26/2012, at approximately 19:17 hours, I responded to 1111 Retreat View Circle in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.

So there are 2 officers, this one says he responded at approximately 1917. So again, why is the arrival time in dispute?

 

[Isabelle]

I think we have a problem here in that the police were already on their way. Long before 19:17. When GZ was on the phone with non-emergency they were already dispatched and GZ was told 2x in that call that they were on the way.

How long was that taped conversation with GZ? Anyone? I thought in the early days of our sleuthing it was determined the first officer arrived at 40 seconds after the shooting.

Total time from the start of the call GZ made to the non-emergency number to the time of the gunshot is approximately 9minutes 50 sec.

 

[CathyinTexas]

If he had really needed medical attention after the killing there would be records of his condition from the EMTs, ER and/or doctors that treated him. The absense of any medical reports proving any life threatening condition really makes everything GZ says in his defense very questionable. I haven't heard that GZ said he was 'nearly unconscious', only his brother and father.

IMO

They claim that he told them that. It apparently is what he told the police also.

 

[csziggy]

In the Congo...

The same (as in the Congo):

Jean Kalonji said her grew up in the Congo and said this experience brought back painful memories.

"There they put me down with the gun to my head and come here, the same," Jean Kalonji said.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/new-homeowners-met-gun-wielding-neighbors/nMd7C/

 

[jjenny]

The second officer says:

On 2/26/2012, at approximately 19:17 hours, I responded to 1111 Retreat View Circle in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.

So there are 2 officers, this one says he responded at approximately 1917. So again, why is the arrival time in dispute?

Why don't you post the whole thing? The second one (after he says dispatch advised him of shots fired) says he parked his car and started to canvas the area. It would take him time to get to the scene. I think the 19:17 time put on a report is a time when the two of them were dispatched. It says time dispatched 19:17 and they are not going to instantly show up on the scene.

 

[m00c0w]

The same (as in the Congo):

I took that as a metaphor, not a literal recounting of what happened at this crime.

 

[LynnM]

It is most definitely hearsay. Whether it falls under an exception is another story.

I disagree. Here is the definition of hearsay from Wikipedia.

"Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone. In general the witness will make a statement such as, "Sally told me Tom was in town," as opposed to "I saw Tom in town," which is direct evidence. Hearsay is not allowed as evidence in the United States, unless one of about thirty[1] exceptions applies to the particular statement being made."

She heard what Trayvon and the other man said with her own ears. That is direct evidence and no different than the 911 callers telling the dispatcher what they heard.

 

[HiHater]

Why don't you post the whole thing? The second one (after he says dispatch advised him of shots fired) says he parked his car and started to canvas the area. It would take him time to get to the scene. I think the 19:17 time put on a report is a time when the two of them were dispatched. It says time dispatched 19:17 and they are not going to instantly show up on the scene.

You didn't post the whole thing either. I'm not going to transcribe a report that's widely available.

He does say he canvassed the area. What that entails, you don't know. He goes right into saying that he saw a white male between two buildings. The police report is official. It says arrival time is approx 7:19, I'm taking that as fact.

 

[HiHater]

I disagree. Here is the definition of hearsay from Wikipedia.

"Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone. In general the witness will make a statement such as, "Sally told me Tom was in town," as opposed to "I saw Tom in town," which is direct evidence. Hearsay is not allowed as evidence in the United States, unless one of about thirty[1] exceptions applies to the particular statement being made."

She heard what Trayvon and the other man said with her own ears. That is direct evidence and no different than the 911 callers telling the dispatcher what they heard.

then maybe only parts of her testimony will be hearsay? Because she did hear what the man said, but she has no direct knowledge that he was actually following Trayvon...

JMO

 

[jjenny]

You didn't post the whole thing either. I'm not going to transcribe a report that's widely available.

He does say he canvassed the area. What that entails, you don't know. He goes right into saying that he saw a white male between two buildings. The police report is official. It says arrival time is approx 7:19, I'm taking that as fact.

It has time of dispatch at 19:17 and time of arrival at 19:17. The first one, I believe, was dispatched at 19:17. The second one arrived at 19:17 but at the complex, not the actual scene. And after arrival he parked his car and canvassed the area. Now, I don't know how long it took him, but I don't believe 19:17 is when a policeman got to the actual scene.

 

[grandmaj]

Why don't you post the whole thing? The second one (after he says dispatch advised him of shots fired) says he parked his car and started to canvas the area. It would take him time to get to the scene. I think the 19:17 time put on a report is a time when the two of them were dispatched. It says time dispatched 19:17 and they are not going to instantly show up on the scene.

They had been dispatched over 9 minutes earlier from the non-emergency number when GZ called. They were already long on the way. When the report of shots fired came in, they were just pulling in.

 

[jjenny]

They had been dispatched over 9 minutes earlier from the non-emergency number when GZ called. They were already long on the way. When the report of shots fired came in, they were just pulling in.

That's not what it says on the police report. It has time of dispatch at 19:17.

 

[HiHater]

It has time of dispatch at 19:17 and time of arrival at 19:17. Do they have an instant teleporation devise?

At least one of the officers was en route when GZ made his phone call at like 7:11. That wouldn't require an instant teleportation device for them to arrive at 7:19.

For the 3rd time, why is the arrival time in dispute?

 

[badme102]

I disagree. Here is the definition of hearsay from Wikipedia.

"Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone. In general the witness will make a statement such as, "Sally told me Tom was in town," as opposed to "I saw Tom in town," which is direct evidence. Hearsay is not allowed as evidence in the United States, unless one of about thirty[1] exceptions applies to the particular statement being made."

She heard what Trayvon and the other man said with her own ears. That is direct evidence and no different than the 911 callers telling the dispatcher what they heard.

I think where people are misunderstanding each other is that it IS hearsay as far as what Trayvon told HER about what GZ was doing or saying. What she heard independently of that is a different story. She can also describe what noises she heard, how afraid Trayvon sounded and what Trayvon said to her and to GZ.
She can also verify that was TM's voice on the phone, describe what his mood was like before the encounter, etc...etc..

No matter what, I still think hearsay or not, her testimony will be admissible. (under one of the hearsay exceptions)

 

[jjenny]

At least one of the officers was en route when GZ made his phone call at like 7:11. That wouldn't require an instant teleportation device for them to arrive at 7:19.

For the 3rd time, why is the arrival time in dispute?

Because it's not clear when they arrived at actual scene. From the report, 19:17 is when one of them got dispatched while the other just arrived at the complex. And then parked his car and canvassed the area. Unless you know how long it took him to park his car and canvass the area, how do you know the time he was at the actual scene?

 

[HiHater]

It has time of dispatch at 19:17 and time of arrival at 19:17. The first one, I believe, was dispatched at 19:17. The second one arrived at 19:17 but at the complex, not the actual scene. And after arrival he parked his car and canvassed the area. Now, I don't know how long it took him, but I don't believe 19:17 is when a policeman got to the actual scene.

The only dispatch time in the police reports is 1917. Perhaps that has to do with the fact that the call changed from a suspicious person to shots fired.

Either way, the report says 1917. That's what we have as a fact, no matter how much time you think it should have actually taken.

 

[grandmaj]

That's not what it says on the police report. It has time of dispatch at 19:17.

Two different calls. They were on their way to the scene for GZ's report of suspicious TM. They were enroute the dispatcher on the non-emergency line told GZ that 2x during the call.

The time of the dispatch on the shooting began coming in at almost the exact time the officers arrived. So they were in the complex at the time they got that second call about the shooting which is why the dispatch time and the arrival time are the same. By probably some seconds but they don't use seconds in the time.

 

[m00c0w]

I disagree. Here is the definition of hearsay from Wikipedia.

"Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone. In general the witness will make a statement such as, "Sally told me Tom was in town," as opposed to "I saw Tom in town," which is direct evidence. Hearsay is not allowed as evidence in the United States, unless one of about thirty[1] exceptions applies to the particular statement being made."

She heard what Trayvon and the other man said with her own ears. That is direct evidence and no different than the 911 callers telling the dispatcher what they heard.

Yes, but any anything Martin described is hearsay, since she's not there witnessing it herself. Only the conversation he had with Zimmerman would be considered firsthand testimony. The rest is hearsay that falls under a specific exception - present sense impression, in my opinion.

 

[rabidstoat]

According to CNN breaking news, Zimmerman is out on bond.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer charged with murder in the February death of Trayvon Martin, was released from a Florida jail around after posting a bond.
Zimmerman walked out of the John E. Polk Correctional Facility in Sanford, Florida, wearing a brown jacket and blue jeans and carrying a brown paper bag in his arms. He got into the back of a white BMW and did not speak to reporters.

Edited to add Dur, I'm almost an hour late. It was already on the previous page.