17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[mercuriod]

I don't understand it either? I'm a little insulted to think that I might have some sort of "mentality" I didn't know I had? All because I have a cool little button I can press to open a gate? You know what the messed up thing is? Someone stole the Christmas bow off my door this past year and someone stole my welcome mat by my front door! :floorlaugh: Sounds petty right? But whoever stole them was doing a lot more than what Trayvon was doing!

MOO

:floorlaugh: Someone stole my GARBAGE can and it was still full of garbage. :floorlaugh:

 

[magnolia]

A bit more in depth discussion regarding SYG (from another defense attorney in Jax, FL)

When does Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law Not Apply?

Contrary to recent assertions made in the New York Times by UCLA Law Professor Adam Winkler, there are multiple statutory provisions limiting the scope of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law.

Under Section 776.013(3), the “no duty of retreat” rule will not apply to a person who is engaged in an unlawful activity or is in a place where he or she has no right to be. Other provisions preclude a defendant from raising a self-defense claim altogether. Under Section 776.041, the justifications for the use of force do not apply if the accused is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of a forcible felony.

The justifications for use of force will also not apply where the evidence establishes that the defendant initially provoked violence against him- or herself. To claim self-defense in such a scenario, Section 776.041 requires the defendant to demonstrate that he or she used every reasonable means short of deadly force to extricate him- or herself from the situation, and that the degree of force used by the other person (the initial non-aggressor) led the defendant to reasonably believe that he or she was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. Alternatively, a defendant who is an initial aggressor may claim self-defense if: (1) in good faith, he or she withdrew from physical contact, (2) clearly indicated to the other person that he or she desired to withdraw and terminate the use of force, and (3) despite the communication and withdrawal, the other person continued or resumed the use of force. See Section 776.041(2)(b), Florida Statutes.

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/stand_your_ground.html

Respectfully,that is not correct, IMO. You failed to include (2) (a) of Section 776.041.

The 2011 Florida Statutes

[SIZE=-1]776.041 [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Use of force by aggressor.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]—[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](1) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](a) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](b) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]History.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]—[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.[/SIZE]

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/stand_your_ground.html

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/776.041

Sufficient Provocation

According to Wharton’s Criminal Law treatise, an encounter is provoked, thereby branding the defendant as an aggressor and stripping him of his right to self-defense, where the defendant:

• Assaulted the deceased;
• Unlawfully arrested the deceased;
• Fires the first shot in a standoff;
• Leaves a fight, only to return with a weapon; and
• Is caught sleeping with the deceased’s wife.

Insufficient Provocation

On the other hand, Wharton’s Criminal Law states that a defendant does not become an aggressor where the defendant:

• Demands an explanation of offensive words or conduct;
• Discusses settlement of a claim;
• Discusses a sensitive subject;
• Hurls inappropriate language and insulting epithets;
• Engages in an inconsiderate act;
• Travels near a neighbor who has previously threatened him;
• Arms himself to repel an anticipated attack, while going about normal business;
• Provides an opportunity for conflict, but does not cause it; and
• Arms himself with the intent to cause a conflict with the deceased, but does not perform an act manifesting his subjective intent to cause the conflict.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

 

[mercuriod]

No gym? No tennis courts? No picnic/cookout areas? No golf course? No walking/bike trails? No man-made beach? (We don't have one in my complex, but I almost moved into one that did -- it was pretty groovy). Do they even have a pet alligator in the Lake?

In order to have a "gated community mentality" there should be at least three pools! One salt-water, one heated, one kiddie pool.

MOO

OK, mine has the gym, 3 tennis courts, basketball court, 2 pools, picnic/cookout area, resident carwash, year round running decorative fountains, but guess we don't have the man-made beach (ours is the real thing right out our back doors) or the salt-water pool (unless you count the ocean), so maybe that is why we don't have the infamous "gated community mentality" :floorlaugh:

 

[Elley Mae]

O/T looking for news and found this http://cfnews13.com/

 

[Donjeta]

So which one happened first? Did Trayvon sneak up on GZ and bash him from behind, or did they have the conversation "Why are you following me-What are you doing here" first? I am a bit lost because if I'm sneaking up on someone to bash their heads in I don't usually like to alert them first by talking to them. On the other hand, if someone just attacked me from behind, I would feel that asking them "What are you doing here?" is a bit redundant, since I already know what his answer is going to be: "Bashing your head in".

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

George Zimmerman website goes dark
Neighborhood watch leader charged in death of Trayvon Martin
Published On: Apr 24 2012 01:18:29 PM EDT Updated On: Apr 24 2012 01:27:16 PM EDT
ORLANDO, Fla. - A website created by George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed Trayvon Martin in Sanford, has gone dark.

The website -- -- now takes users to a GoDaddy.com page that asks if anyone would like to purchase the domain name.

Before the website went dark, Zimmerman wrote, "I have been forced to leave my home, my school... and ultimately, my entire life."

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Ge...dark/-/1637132/11783042/-/9egxsl/-/index.html


If GZ needs indigent status, he had to let this go but I wonder how much he's already collected in donations...he allegedly did this for 'living' expenses..since he is out of work and won't get work due to the high profile nature of this case...how much has he gotten?

 

[ScubaTwinn]

The night of Feb. 26, Zimmerman made a non-emergency call to police before fatally shooting Martin, in which he told a dispatcher, "This guy looks like he's up to no good, on drugs or something."

But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.

"When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.

http://gma.yahoo.com/neighborhood-w...on-martin-wanted-cop-211535382--abc-news.html

Good morning. I'm trying to catch up. This angers me even more that he wasn't tested that night.

 

[dunlurken]

I've been following this case closely. I think GZ is a "sleazy" little man afraid of his own shadow, who is quite prejudiced, and carried a gun to make him "feel better about himself". He was a cop wannabe, who overstepped his legal grounds. There was no "stand your ground" situation in this horrible mess. I believe GZ is to blame for the tragic death of an innocent youth.

I also do not believe that GZ's head was bashed into the sidewalk. The video at the police station shows that. GZ had a broken nose previously... why, I don't have a clue. If his nose got broken that night... good for Trayvon.

The unfortunate thing about all this, is that Trayvon is not here to defend himself and tell his side of the story. Thanks GZ! If GZ doesn't end up in prison, wonder if he'll follow another "suspicious" person again.

All of this is just my opinion.

 

[sherryk]

Why isn't the blood smeared in that pic. Trayvon's hands should have been covered in blood, and we should see smudges/fingerprints/palmprints somewhere...:waitasec:

MOO

IMO I am leaning towards that GZ is not guilty however the above information is one of the things that would come out at trial that would perhaps give me informed information as to fitting in the unknowns at this time.

I agree there should be blood evidence of blood on TM or DNA from GZ perhaps DNA from any possible nose material or blood from nose.

With what we or I am seeing so far as legal standpoint GZ has a very, very good defense in this. With that being said I am open to when the FACTS come out to be open minded.

I all depends on what the state can prove as in Casey Anthony case, sometime we agree with the outcome sometime we do not. The Anthony case devistated me.. so I can understand the heartfelt passions on this on either side.

May the justice system work in this case. I hope the media does not continue to give bits of POSSIBLE facts as absolute facts..

 

[dunlurken]

I'm trying to figure out why the Sunshine Laws don't apply in this case. I think the media has filed a law suit to have the information made available to the public, but I'm not positive.

I did hear this morning that GZ's attorney has requested a body guard for GZ at the expense of the tax payers. WTH? Did anyone else hear that?

 

[Donjeta]

I've been following this case closely. I think GZ is a "sleazy" little man afraid of his own shadow, who is quite prejudiced, and carried a gun to make him "feel better about himself". He was a cop wannabe, who overstepped his legal grounds. There was no "stand your ground" situation in this horrible mess. I believe GZ is to blame for the tragic death of an innocent youth.

I also do not believe that GZ's head was bashed into the sidewalk. The video at the police station shows that. GZ had a broken nose previously... why, I don't have a clue. If his nose got broken that night... good for Trayvon.

The unfortunate thing about all this, is that Trayvon is not here to defend himself and tell his side of the story. Thanks GZ! If GZ doesn't end up in prison, wonder if he'll follow another "suspicious" person again.

All of this is just my opinion.

I think he will see a whole lot of suspicious individuals every day and think that they all are out to kill him for revenge.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Speculation Zimmerman route to cut off Martin. <mod snip>

Thanks Ambrosia...this is why I believe, GZ 'ambushed' TM...I believe he cut him off, stood in front of TM, asked what are you doing here, why are you following me...TM thought he lost this dude who was following and the rest will have to be seen through the forensics..

I believe TM showed no signs on his hands to suggest he'd been in a fistfight..

TM GS burns were evident on his sweatshirt and skin, that was in close proximity...as per the investigator at the bond hearing...

We've learned that GZ gave five different accounts of the events, as MOM now states, he doesn't expect GZ to remember the sequences of events and will look towards the forensics..which is what is needed...

I believe the autopsy will have lots of answers, which is why the SP brought these charges...
If GZ's account of events do not match the evidence, I'm truly bewildered as to why NWolfinger chose not to charge...had they done this from the start, there'd be no racial tensions, no asking of the chief to step aside and there'd be calm in Sanford...

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

'Stand your ground' panel sets first meeting
Governor Scott's task force will meet May 1st
Published On: Apr 25 2012 07:50:24 AM EDT

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -
Gov. Rick Scott's task force on Florida's self-defense laws, including what's known as the "stand your ground" law, has set its first meeting for May 1.

The governor's office on Tuesday announced the meeting will be held at the Florida Department of Transportation's headquarters in Tallahassee.

It will focus on administrative matters and no public comment will be taken, but it will be streamed live by the Florida Channel at http://thefloridachannel.org .



http://www.clickorlando.com/news/-S...ing/-/1637132/11802178/-/wb0b9lz/-/index.html

 

[dunlurken]

I think he will see a whole lot of suspicious individuals every day and think that they all are out to kill him for revenge.

Well, I certainly wouldn't condone that. I believe LE is adding fuel to the fire by not releasing autopsy results, etc. If people had enough information to make an informed decision it might alleviate some suspicions, and tensions, and put the truth out there.

I agree GZ is entitled to a fair trial, but this is an unusual case. Guess we will have to wait for at least a year or so before we find out the real truth. It must feel horrible to be a "wanted man" with a bounty on your head. Next time GZ, think before you step into a hornet's next.

I don't see GZ turning over his passport means much. It is so easy to slip across the Mexican border, or Canadian for that matter, and POOF, you're gone. JMO.

 

[LambChop]

I do not agree there is a gated community mentality, so here we are.

I believe it was GZ and FT that appear to have a "gated community mentality". All the other neighbors appear to be quite normal. jmo

 

[sherryk]

IMO, there's only one question in this case. Why did GZ get out of his vehicle? Seriously, why? The police had been informed and were on their way. So WHY DID HE GET OUT OF HIS VEHICLE?????? Trayvon was not committing a crime. Even GZ said only that TM "looked suspicious." I think he's going to have a heck of a time trying to explain that one and that goes to the entire case against him. JMHO, etc.

What if he was following due to he was the community watch or even that just a citizen in the gated community.. if he was following to get the location of where he was headed so the police would be able to find location that at the time GZ believed was a "possible crime" pending..

This is not the same case senario but I posted at one time earlier. I have followed a drunk driver in order to follow to location so police could find him as it was traffic and the drunk driver could of turned off anywhere.. if he was actally drunk or not.. I SUSPECTED he was.. officer did loacte him and the POSSIBLE drunk person was booked on DUI.

I have also followed in my car where I saw a drug deal by teens at our local park. I followed not to lose location while i was on phone with police. I did not get out of my car however.. nor would I have.

If someone was in my complex I would follow but I would not get out of the car due to if a suspicious person I would be scared of what if THAT person had a gun..

I would like to know the distance he was following.. close or far behind.. and when he went back to the car did TM follow him to car or not.. that i think will be the key in this.. among other things that we do not even know yet.

but that is just my mindset on what i would do.. i am a female and no way would i get out of a car.. also I am unarmed.. if i was armed.. same goes.. I personally would not get out of the car.. due to i would be too scated to

 

[dunlurken]

I think he will see a whole lot of suspicious individuals every day and think that they all are out to kill him for revenge.

Something tells me that's why he was released from jail. He's safer on the outside, which is really hard to believe. Dumb dude is all I can say.

 

[LambChop]

Well, I certainly wouldn't condone that. I believe LE is adding fuel to the fire by not releasing autopsy results, etc. If people had enough information to make an informed decision it might alleviate some suspicions, and tensions, and put the truth out there.

I agree GZ is entitled to a fair trial, but this is an unusual case. Guess we will have to wait for at least a year or so before we find out the real truth. It must feel horrible to be a "wanted man" with a bounty on your head. Next time GZ, think before you step into a hornet's next.

I don't see GZ turning over his passport means much. It is so easy to slip across the Mexican border, or Canadian for that matter, and POOF, you're gone. JMO.

He's wearing a GPS monitor. He's not going anywhere without SPD knowing where he is. jmo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/28/opinion/burton-florida-gates/index.html

This article address the gated community and their mentality...whoever brought this up and said there isn't a "Gated Community" mentality...

(CNN) -- "Be as paranoid as possible!"

The screed from our homeowner association manager arrived in our mailbox printed inside a cheery holiday border. The message continued: "Our neighborhood is as safe as we make it. Make no mistake about it, you must be on your guard! Report suspicious behavior or individuals that do not belong in our community."

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/28/opinion/burton-florida-gates/index.html

 

[dunlurken]

He's wearing a GPS monitor. He's not going anywhere without SPD knowing where he is. jmo

Good point. Thanks for that.

Here's a question though why in the world did he follow TM when 911 told him specifically not to? That's what torks my jaw. Sounds like a rogue to me.