17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[highflyer]

A few thoughts I've had regarding MOM and his defense activities...

I'd like to pose a rhetorical question - from a detached - or, if you will - neutral POV.

Is it possible to think someone is a teen from a distance, based on lighting, and whatever other cues (clothing, etc.) that can be employed from a distanace - then, once up close, to believe that person to be older?

(Point being: No one but GZ can say how old he thought TM was at the moment he pulled the trigger. MOM has it on record now, that GZ did not think TM was a kid when he killed him.)

MOM was not born yesterday nor did he begin his career yesterday (as someone else we're familiar with). Like it or not, MOM has mad skillz.

MOM's a criminal defense attorney with a very high rating and a long career. IMO, it's probably a good idea to assume the man is not a dolt, but, rather that he is very skillful.

Now, I don't have to like his skills, but I have to disagree with the idea that MOM makes serious mistakes every day. Rather, I'm thinking MOM makes deliberate strides in his strategy.

Has anyone read this on-line gzlegalcase.com?

I'm also thinking, MOM has some confidence that he can add significantly to that defense fund in the next 30 days - while this story is still HOT in the news. i.e. MOM wants to strike while the media iron is hot. He wanted his gzlegalcase.com website up and running prior to release of any discovery. He also wants his GZlegaldefense website approved and set up by the time 1st docs of discovery are released - since said discovery will throw the story into headlines again. Because of the risk that interest will wane while we await hearings/trial in this case, IMO he's set up these social media vehicles to create and keep interest alive and to create positive spin.

It's been pretty interesting watching him dance his client out of the paypal & client-created web-presence fiasco. JMHO.

That being said, I don't blame Crump for not wanting to tango. I also think Crump (and his clients) have the right to ignore MOM's calls at this point and frustrate MOM's efforts to humanize TM's killer.

IMO, wrongful death civil suit is also a back-up plan for Crump's clients.

JMHO, and some observations/thoughts so far.

Haven't been as impressed but obviously you are.

 

[rotterdam]

Where in the following question and answers does his Mom ever say she wants him to apologize?




If you were to come face to face with George Zimmerman, what do you want to tell him? What do you want to ask him?


Sybrina: Um, one of the things that I still believe in, a person should apologize when they're really, when they're actually remorseful for what they've done. Um, I believe that it was a(n) accident, I believe that uh, it just got out of control, and he couldn't turn the clock back.

Um, I would ask him: Did he know that that was a minor? That that was a teenager, and that he did not have a weapon?

I just want to tag on that "accident" comment. Sybrina stated the next day it was taking out of context.

"In no way, shape, form or fashion did I imply that this was an accident, that the shooting was an accident," she told Grace. "I don't believe that it was an accident. I believe he got out of his vehicle, he had an intent in his mind, and he carried out the intent, and that's why my son is no longer with us."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...lton-clarifies-accident-remark_n_1421145.html

 

[highflyer]

Yup. Every single thing he does is met with the dramatic rhetoric of Crump and Sharpton. Like Rev Al said, " We will be watching closely." It will be a a very high profile case taking on a life of it's own. imo

So much for O'Mara's mad skills.

 

[cityslick]

I guess we'll see.

Thinking is all well and good but it would have taken him a minute at most to tell someone at his office to call RZ Jr and find out about the account.

Not if it wasn't a priority to begin with. Lets be honest here, raise your hand if you were actively thinking that the guy had a stash of money in the website account on the day of the bond hearing? Did anyone think it was really possible that he would be accumulating that kind of money in a short period of time?

 

[Emeralgem]

I just want to tag on that "accident" comment. Sybrina stated the next day it was taking out of context.

"In no way, shape, form or fashion did I imply that this was an accident, that the shooting was an accident," she told Grace. "I don't believe that it was an accident. I believe he got out of his vehicle, he had an intent in his mind, and he carried out the intent, and that's why my son is no longer with us."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...lton-clarifies-accident-remark_n_1421145.html

BBM.. Thank you for posting the true facts as to what she really meant to say...JMHO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

And yet, that is precisely what Sybrina said she wanted to hear from GZ.

Trayvon's Murder: Mother's Interview After Zimmerman's Charged - YouTube

The Today Show, Sybrina's entire reply. Question is asked at 3:08.
​

Ann Curry: Tracy and Sybrina, either of you can take this question:

If you were to come face to face with George Zimmerman, what do you want to tell him? What do you want to ask him?


Sybrina: Um, one of the things that I still believe in, a person should apologize when they're really, when they're actually remorseful for what they've done. Um, I believe that it was a(n) accident, I believe that uh, it just got out of control, and he couldn't turn the clock back.

Um, I would ask him: Did he know that that was a minor? That that was a teenager, and that he did not have a weapon?

Um, I would ask him, that I understand that his family is hurting, but think about our family, that lost our teenage son; I mean it's just very difficult to live with day in and day out. Um, I'm sure that his parents can pick up the phone and call him, but we can't pick up the phone and call Trayvon any more.
--

IMO, Sybrina did in fact express a clear and distinct wish to hear a sincere expression of condolence, literally "for the loss of their son," in addition to answering those two specific questions.

A statement like "I am sorry I shot your son" would unfortunately be used unfairly to attack his self-defense defense. I believe GZ feels terrible about what happened, and respectfully gave the victim's mother exactly what she asked for, without sacrificing himself to a possible life in prison for something he claims he didn't to: commit murder.

If GZ truly acted in self-defense to protect his own life, and is therefore unfairly and wrongly charged with murder, it would be ludicrous legal suicide for him to actually apologize, as he no doubt would have done immediately, and no doubt longs to do, were he not otherwise so crucially constrained.

JMO
BBM

(Two part question.)


If you were to come face to face with George Zimmerman, what do you want to tell him? What do you want to ask him?

(two part answer)

tell him

Sybrina: Um, one of the things that I still believe in, a person should apologize when they're really, when they're actually remorseful for what they've done. Um, I believe that it was a(n) accident, I believe that uh, it just got out of control, and he couldn't turn the clock back.



Ask Him


Um, I would ask him: Did he know that that was a minor? That that was a teenager, and that he did not have a weapon?

Um, I would ask him, that I understand that his family is hurting, but think about our family, that lost our teenage son; I mean it's just very difficult to live with day in and day out. Um, I'm sure that his parents can pick up the phone and call him, but we can't pick up the phone and call Trayvon any more.

......................................................................


She never asked him to apologize.

 

[Desdemona]

Well since one 15 or 16 year old girl has already been smeared across the web or so I am reading, because I don't go to those places, unless I absolutely have to. Perhaps we should open the whole witness list up and let everyone get equal treatment. Let's hear the sneaky little facts about everyone and really throw this court proceeding to the dogs. There is no mortal man that walks amongst us that doesn't have something to hide. MOO

Isn't being fearful for your life something that both sides have stated about their witnesses?

I have seen the data/info at several sites online, but have seen no smearing of her character. JMO/HTH

ETA, posted this reply to reassure you, b/c you say you have not seen it yourself. HTH

 

[cityslick]

BBM.. Thank you for posting the true facts as to what she really meant to say...JMHO

The point was on the day it was said though, she was given the benefit of the doubt. Why isn't the courtesy extended to everyone in this case, even the defense lawyer?

 

[vlpate]

I guess we'll see.

Thinking is all well and good but it would have taken him a minute at most to tell someone at his office to call RZ Jr and find out about the account.

He needed 15 grand, do you really think he ever imagined those accounts with, collectively, less than 2 grand in them, would yield $200,00 in such a short time? I don't.

This is not directed at you, this is in general to anyone who feels he has no morals:

-stayed at the scene of the crime and surrendered without incident
-turned himself in
-told his attorney about $200,00 in funds that he never had to tell him about
-apologized the only way he really could without saying he killed their son in cold blood - surely that's not what SB was asking for when she said he should apologize.

He does not have the characteristics of a heartless, self-serving, immoral criminal, IMO. That type of person, facing a possible sentence of life in prison, would have taken that money, bought a couple of fake passports, and left the country.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

BBM.. Thank you for posting the true facts as to what she really meant to say...JMHO

I believe her original gracious statement about it being a tragic accident was what was in her heart. Her 'clarification ' sounded more like it was coached by her attorney to fit a legal definition. JMO

 

[waltzingmatilda]

In all reality can a lawyer who is "slicker than snot" and uses underhanded tactics be described as being a competent lawyer? JMHO

We are discussing defense attys after all. It's all a game in their world. I'm not saying that I agree with the tactics that attys use in defending clients. Personally, I find it repulsive. Slicker than snot on a doorknob was not intended as a compliment to MOM. I don't for a minute think that MOM was ignorant of the paypal acct. He is posturing, image building and defending his client in the media.

Competance and honorable are two different things.

Great reading you again BTW!

MOO

wm

 

[Phoenixfla]

I disagree, they need the phone call testimony because that testimony puts a state of mind on TM. It also proves that GZ approached him.

If the phone call doesn't get on, IMO you have a very small chance at conviction, especially 2nd degree.

My thoughts exactly. A lot is riding on this testimony. Many of the actions of TM that have been reported in the MSM are directly from this conversation.

 

[Donjeta]

Not if it wasn't a priority to begin with. Lets be honest here, raise your hand if you were actively thinking that the guy had a stash of money in the website account on the day of the bond hearing? Did anyone think it was really possible that he would be accumulating that kind of money in a short period of time?

I can't say I spent much time wondering about the amount of money he had but then I am not the one who was required to face a judge and declare that GZ was indigent. They knew what he had on the other accounts, so it had magically crossed their minds to check all the accounts with fewer funds, except this one that made the most publicity and could be expected to bring in the most money. Strange.

I don't know if I'm that surprised really. There are all kinds of crazies out there contributing to the weirdest causes, and the trigger happy gun lobby has a lot of money. Alternatively you can say that a lot of esteemable citizens have decided to donate in order to preserve George Zimmerman's civil rights to shoot people if he doesn't like the way they look.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I disagree, they need the phone call testimony because that testimony puts a state of mind on TM. It also proves that GZ approached him.

If the phone call doesn't get on, IMO you have a very small chance at conviction, especially 2nd degree.

I disagree. TM's state of mind is not on trial here, Zimmerman's is. The real evidence in this case is Zimmerman's call to 911, his statements to police and the location of the body.

 

[Phoenixfla]

I don't think it is a matter of 'digging up dirt' about her. But if Crump is telling us that she did XY and Z on certain dates, and her social network sites show that XY and Z did not actually happen, then that is not dirt on the girl at all. But it does make Crump look like he manufactured a story for public consumption. imo

Yep, and I think she is being put in a very bad position. I honestly feel bad for her, regardless of if she was his girlfriend, or just a friend. If it is determined that those twitter posts are accurate, it would lead me to believe that this whole phone call has to be discounted, and Crump has a lot of 'splain to do.

 

[Donjeta]

He needed 15 grand, do you really think he ever imagined those accounts with, collectively, less than 2 grand in them, would yield $200,00 in such a short time? I don't.

This is not directed at you, this is in general to anyone who feels he has no morals:

-stayed at the scene of the crime and surrendered without incident
-turned himself in
-told his attorney about $200,00 in funds that he never had to tell him about
-apologized the only way he really could without saying he killed their son in cold blood - surely that's not what SB was asking for when she said he should apologize.

He does not have the characteristics of a heartless, self-serving, immoral criminal, IMO. That type of person, facing a possible sentence of life in prison, would have taken that money, bought a couple of fake passports, and left the country.

JMO

He didn't turn himself in, as per Mark O'Mara. He reportedly wanted to talk about his safety and the arrest took him by surprise.

 

[Desdemona]

For the record, Arizona has many miles of waterfront property. Very nice waterfront property I might add. What Arizona doesn't have is oceanfront property.

My bad, all fixed.
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Thanks.

 

[LambChop]

Not if it wasn't a priority to begin with. Lets be honest here, raise your hand if you were actively thinking that the guy had a stash of money in the website account on the day of the bond hearing? Did anyone think it was really possible that he would be accumulating that kind of money in a short period of time?

I don't know but if we find out the majority of that money came from one source because of an interview........well, GZ knew it would be in there and that may be why he set up a separate account in the first place. jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I can't say I spent much time wondering about the amount of money he had but then I am not the one who was required to face a judge and declare that GZ was indigent. They knew what he had on the other accounts, so it had magically crossed their minds to check all the accounts with fewer funds, except this one that made the most publicity and could be expected to bring in the most money. Strange.

I don't know if I'm that surprised really. There are all kinds of crazies out there contributing to the weirdest causes, and the trigger happy gun lobby has a lot of money. Alternatively you can say that a lot of esteemable citizens have decided to donate in order to preserve George Zimmerman's civil rights to shoot people if he doesn't like the way they look.

Well OMara was working on the case 10 and 12 hours a day like he said you would think he would have got the password to those accounts and checked them or shut them down like he said he wanted to.

 

[highflyer]

IIRC, MOM himself has explained that slip, and the JUDGE was satisfied with his explanation.

Why yes, and wasn't that interesting.