2008.10.22 Nancy Grace

[impatientredhead]

Air: No standards exist for the amount of chloroform allowed in the air of homes. We use a formula to convert workplace limits to home limits. Based on the formula, we recommend levels be no higher than 0.2 parts per million (ppm) of chloroform in air. Most people can’t smell chloroform until levels reach 133 ppm or higher. If you can smell the chemical, the level is too high to be safe.

The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources regulates the amount of chloroform that can be released by industries.

Notice the part about smelling chloroform and also remember the trunk was open in the garage prior to being impounded. If there were chloroform so strong to smell then it was because someone used it to clean the car - not used 1 - 30 days earlier to knock out little K.

Chloroform has a slightly sweet smell, there is no way anyone could smell chloroform against the smell of decomposition that has been described by multiple people.

 

[insatiable]

Is there somewhere that says LE has evidence that there was a search for chloroform on KC computer???

 

[Chilly Willy]

Most people I know use those small bottles for their hot tubs, not pools. That would be way too expensive and it would take so many of them in a large pool.

We buy all of ours in 100 lb buckets for shock, 40 lb buckets for stablizer, 50 lb buckets of soda ash and 1 gallon size of muratic acid. (muratic acid also comes in 5 gallon and 15 gallon size) Above ground pools like they have use all of these also.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

We always used the liquids in our above ground pool because it's more convenient. Powdered chemicals have to be diluted before using or they could burn through the pool liner.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

You're right, she very well could have. We were discussing why the dogs hit in the yard and I suggested the possibility that she used the chemicals that George keeps stored near the pool and she may have returned the bottles with the decomp smell on them from being in the trunk.

just playing devil's advocate......... i think she may have returned from burying her and thrown her own clothes on the ground and jumped in the pool. she may have also thrown some of her clothes in the pool, trying to get rid of the smell from Caylee's body and destroy evidence. maybe that is why the dog's hit the backyard. until this goes to trial it is hard to speculate.

 

[tx_Dot]

I would bet that if they were ever asked about why they did this at the beginning of all of this, they would deny that they had ever done any searching of the backyard. JMO.

Somewhere ???....this statement is in print, & I see other posters remember it also........it stated that C & G had searched the backyard, even in & under the playhouse, & around the pool........very soon after the last 911 call that night.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Just a thought- maybe the car didn't stink all that bad until after it was parked, closed up, at Amscot for 3 days and then at the tow yard. Maybe the smell from decomp was tolerable to KC with the windows down and the car aired out. Just enough that someone else getting in the car would have noticed, hence the "squirrel" stories, to cover up, just in case someone did notice, before she dumped the car....

Totally a possibility but I tend to believe with the heat and humidity in FL it stunk pretty bad within a day or two. I think her car being right next to that dumpster was purposeful IMO.


O/T
:woohoo: GO MARYLAND!

 

[DADSGIRL4EVER]

Hi...
"High levels of chloroform were also found inside the trunk"
http://www.local10.com/news/17667284/detail.html

Thanks for that. The problem I have is that they say that is from the FBI. The FBI and the body farm are different, right? This has been bothering me for so long. I just don't trust NG. She just seems to say whatever she wants. Thanks for your help.

 

[impatientredhead]

You can still buy chloroform. Look at Fisher Science company online. Not sure if they sell to just anyone = you have to open an account and probably justify why you want to buy it. My guess is an individual would have a hard time buying it from a legitimate source. But businesses and schools probably could justify the use of it. It is not illegal

If you have a credit card and are willing to go on record with a shipping address anyone of us could order it tonight and get it overnighted. I believe NG did just that the day after this news came out.

 

[panthera]

I believe there was several hours in between.

I do think the car had to be at least washed on the exterior ~ it just seemed too clean looking under the lights inside the crime lab garage. MOO

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I don't understand the debate about about George claiming he saw Caylee and Casey on the afternoon of the 16th. What difference does it make in determining Casey's guilt or innocence?

A cover-up "script............

 

[Chilly Willy]

Thanks for that. The problem I have is that they say that is from the FBI. The FBI and the body farm are different, right? This has been bothering me for so long. I just don't trust NG. She just seems to say whatever she wants. Thanks for your help.

I'm watching the NG show again. She just said the FBI reported the chloroform in the trunk.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Yes.....

And I don't think the body would "Immediately" start to smell

It probably would take a few days (2) to start to smell & then progressivly get worse

The body would start to decompose immediately and would start to smell within hours.

 

[Chilly Willy]

A cover-up "script............

That's what I don't get. What does it cover-up?

 

[david918]

I seriously doubt that KC searched in May to make sure she had chloroform as a cleaning agent in June. C'mon.

No written release of information has been released to us to show what searches were made on the computer to what subjects, by who and when. All that has been released is speculation that someone searched on chloroform from a computer. Until we see those searches in a log similar to what we saw with the ATT call records we wont really know.

 

[MD MOMMY]

You can still buy chloroform. Look at Fisher Science company online. Not sure if they sell to just anyone = you have to open an account and probably justify why you want to buy it. My guess is an individual would have a hard time buying it from a legitimate source. But businesses and schools probably could justify the use of it. It is not illegal

I got all the way to a payment page on one of the sites a while back. NG was stating how easy it was so I wanted to investigate. It had a bunch of "uses" listed one of them was "laboratory" I checked that, put in my personal information, and was led to their payment section. It was EASY. I just wanted to see for myself. FWIW I didn't actually order it. It was like $50.00 and I forget the container size.

 

[Insomnia Momma]

Yeah, that makes sense when it was in the Amscot lot, but what about before then? Wasn't she parking it in TonE's apartment complex parking lot?

She was, but don't forget she had told Amy it was squirrels. She could have told more than Amy that, kwim? It's not like the average person walking by the car would say "wow, that smells like human decomp"! It reeks and if you do ever smell it you'll never mistake the smell again. Most folks have the benefit of never smelling it though. If Casey always parked next to the dumpster for instance most people would assume the smell came from there.

I wonder if LE asked the folks they interviewed at TL's apt where Casey usually parked? :waitasec:

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Thanks for that. The problem I have is that they say that is from the FBI. The FBI and the body farm are different, right? This has been bothering me for so long. I just don't trust NG. She just seems to say whatever she wants. Thanks for your help.

The Body Farm uses an instrument called a spectrometer. Gas spectrometers such as those used at the Body Farm/FBI lab measure vaporized gases - when they take an "air sample" they measure the density of the vaporized gases in the air.

Gases are light or heavy - gases such as helium/ether are relatively light while gases such as chlorine and methane are heavy. The air is saturated with gases - because some gases are heavy, they can become "trapped" in enclosed spaces

 

[kidz110]

Somewhere ???....this statement is in print, & I see other posters remember it also........it stated that C & G had searched the backyard, even in & under the playhouse, & around the pool........very soon after the last 911 call that night.

I believe it's in the first set of documents--from the first search warrants.

 

[MD MOMMY]

That's what I don't get. What does it cover-up?

It could cover up a fight with KC and the A's on the 15th and KC leaving in a rage. Just a thought. I actually think that is what happened but it's JMO.

 

[Gaia713]

I will say this. Chloroform is used by dry cleaners to remove spots. Bleach is used to clean up spots. Acetone is used to clean up paint and other stains. Again how much was actually found in the car? It is very possible that some pure or concoction of a cleaning fluid was used that has either the exact components or common components to chloroform or the bleach / acetone mixture.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs6.html

Its primary use now is as an organic solvent (that's as in organic chemistry, not organic farming... big difference!).
The molecule of chloroform is composed of one H atom and three Cl atoms attached to a single C atom, so it has the molecular formula CHCl3.
Like essentially all such halocarbon molecules (halo- for the halogen atoms like Cl, I, Br, and F, and carbon for...well...carbon), chloroform has been found to have a number of undesirable effects such as being cancer-causing, poisonous, and contributing to smog and the destruction of the ozone layer (it is after all a very reactive material whose use became common before any of these ill effects were realized). As a result, the use of chloroform today is very restricted.

This makes me tend to believe that it is NOT used today in dry cleaning.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080821155549AAlzuol

Here's what an "expert" says:
Chemist Jeff Flowers, who has testified in state and federal court as an expert, said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from anything else -- not cleaning products, not human body fluids or a mixture of anything else.


http://www.wesh.com/news/17397494/detail.html