2009.03.20 Document Release

[Hot Dogs]

As I understand it, rats ( and other small predatory animals, just using rat as example) have no compunction about what they devour.

Rats (nor any rodent) are not really predators per se. They are opportunistic omnivores and are primarily herbivorous. They will occasionally kill and eat small or baby animals. They are scavengers to a certain extent, and might feed on a human corpse under certain circumstances.

I think the circumstances of this particular incident would all but rule out the scenario of rodents feeding on a drugged corpse and then getting eaten by a snake which consequently dies from whatever drug.

Could it be:
Rat eats decomp. or ingests other CS toxin--> has chloroform or other toxins in system, is still mobile ---> snake eats moving and live rat before rat dies from poisoning ---->
Snake then dies from poisoning through secondary ingestion ( via rat).

We are talking about a body that had been dead for about 2 months. Rodents should have no interest in whatever is left of the decomposed flesh (if any) at that time. There is a fairly short length of time after death in which mammals and birds will feed on a corpse. Vultures are one of the very few animals that can and will feed on rotten flesh. Toxins are produced by bacteria and maggots, and scavenging animals will strictly avoid this. After the bones have dessicated (dried out), they may be gnawed on by rodents.

Kronk and his crew found the dead rattler on Aug 11. The photo shows a very recently dead snake. According to him, at that time, what he thought was the skull and bag (remains) were submerged in swamp water. A body submerged in swamp water is not a typical situation for mammals to be feeding on it - let alone one that has been dead for 2 months. Of course parts could have been scattered to areas that were not underwater.

It's my educated opinion that the snake did not die because it fed on an animal that was "poisoned" by previously feeding on any part of Caylee's body.

If LE is concerned with the snake, it's for a REASON. IMO.

Well, yes. They could have taken it because it is a piece of evidence found very near the body. It also supports the story told by Kronk. LE may have casually theorized that the snake could reveal linking forensic evidence 9as others have here). But that doesn't mean the idea is fully reasonable. I doubt anyone at OCSO who specifically ordered the taking of the snake has advanced knowledge of herpetology. I'm not saying it was wrong or stupid to take the snake. I just don't think it would produce any functional forensic evidence related to Caylee.

 

[amysmom]

http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/DONE%20mbi-letters-murphy-monforte.pdf

pg. #4965

Who is Daniel D.?

He's not in KC's addy book but is someone she called or called her..Hard to tell from what I can see but is listed as a "number of interest"..TIA!

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

It is quite possible that Casey did not tell extravagent lies from the beginning. It is possible that she began with small lies and worked her way up into the pathological state that she now finds herself in. There had to have been something there from about the age of 15 on developing, slowly but surely into the monster mom that we know and despise. Perhaps it became more difficult for her to "manage" her long lists of lies once their was a baby involved and things became more complicated. Perhaps her personality disorder developed as a response to her own parents disorders? We just don't know. One thing is clear, whatever is wrong with her is no small thing and someone close to her should have noticed.
It is also possible that Casey was a "late bloomer" and when she bloomed, she really bloomed.

How can anyone notice when CA always turns the other way and I believe GA left the discipline to his wife.

CA also said to RP, a one time good friend of KC that she is a pathological liar so CA was aware and as ususal turned away from the real problem. I also believe this entire family is based on lies, one is just better than the next.

LA said it best, my sister has never been held responsible for anything in her life. Seems to me CA would always make excuses for her. We see how CA can spin her tales as well, this is handed down. A child learns what they live and by all accounts CA was a controlling mother who used verbal abuse to demean and belittle. We can all see how GA has beem emasulated, he wasn't the man of the house, CA was..

They enabled KC's behavior and when it spun out of control she used Caylee as her little pawn in this game of life. KC knew CA would do anything for Caylee, she was their sunshine. I also think Caylee came to them when they had no more harmony, she and GA were seperated. When he came back into that home it was Caylee who brought them joy and happiness. Clearly, KC was jealous of the relationship. She held it against CA that she was the first to hold Caylee when she was born. This is a very sick relationship between mother and daughter, it seemed like they were in competition with each other, who does Caylee love more...CA never let KC live anything down, I support Caylee, I buy her clothes, food and toys. CA should have asked more of KC like helping with the finances, pay for room and board. It didn't have to be much money, just something to show KC responsiblity.

There is no doubt in my mind the Anthony's loved Caylee. When CA had gotten sound advice in regards to getting custody of Caylee and kicking KC out, she should have never trumped her hand. CA should have gone down to the courthouse and proceeded with filing for custody. Problem is CA always tells KC what she will do and doesn't follow through. She makes idle threats, KC tells her what she wants to hear and does the opposite.

The Anthony's also knew KC had no job, why they allowed it to spin so out of control is beyond me. KC viewed this as a mercy killing. She didn't want Caylee to grow up with CA, terrible as it sounds, she knew how she turned out! :bang:

JMHO

 

[lawlady84]

I think they took the snake as corroborating evidence of RK's story. If RK said "we didn't go down there because there was a snake," the defense could say BS show us the snake- now LE can show them the snake.

 

[amysmom]

*Lastname snipped*

IMHO, this appears to be another error in the LE report.

At exactly the time LE's report states, 20:33:39 on 6/17, after placing a call to Time & Weather (as LE's report correctly states), Casey receives and INCOMING call from G&C's home phone and lets it roll to vmail. There are no outgoing calls until 21:12:56...which is a call placed to Tony L.

Also, FWIW, the lastname provided in LE's report has the same first initial as the lastname of Casey's best guy-friend...also a Ryan P...however, his lastname sounds sorta like "Days Lee".

Hope that helps.

On pg. 4964 there's info on KC's 'best friend' Ryan P & then right below that is all the stuff about the other (?) Ryan P..They even know the address the # is linked to so how can there be so much confusion if this is actually the SAME person?

Also..Are you saying there are 2 conflicting cell records? IOW! In one there's NOTHING re: Ryan P after the call to the weather? :bang:

 

[JWG]

*Lastname snipped*

IMHO, this appears to be another error in the LE report.

At exactly the time LE's report states, 20:33:39 on 6/17, after placing a call to Time & Weather (as LE's report correctly states), Casey receives and INCOMING call from G&C's home phone and lets it roll to vmail. There are no outgoing calls until 21:12:56...which is a call placed to Tony L.

Also, FWIW, the lastname provided in LE's report has the same first initial as the lastname of Casey's best guy-friend...also a Ryan P...however, his lastname sounds sorta like "Days Lee".

Hope that helps.

Yep...a check of the ATT records and KC's phone book confirms that at this particular date / time a call comes in from the parents that rolls to voicemail.

Interestingly, the ATT annotated report released on 3/5 has it right (p. 4224). It is the MBI agent report that is wrong.

 

[BondJamesBond]

On pg. 4964 there's info on KC's 'best friend' Ryan P & then right below that is all the stuff about the other (?) Ryan P..They even know the address the # is linked to so how can there be so much confusion if this is actually the SAME person?

Also..Are you saying there are 2 conflicting cell records? IOW! In one there's NOTHING re: Ryan P after the call to the weather? :bang:

Confusing by itself...made more confusing because the individual named shares the same firstname and last initial as Casey's best-male-friend w/ lastname sounding like "Days Lee".

Lemme try it this way....

1) I did not look over the entire document - only the page 5 reference to the 'criminal' Ryan P....so, I'm only commenting on that single occurrence
2) The report specifies an outbound call to the 'other' Ryan P. at a date & time which is in conflict with our copy of the original AT&T records which have repeatedly been proven correct (prior LE errors have been discovered in earlier releases, identified by WS's, and corrected in subsequent LE releases)
3) If this is the only reference to the 'criminal' Ryan P. in the report, then, the 'criminal' Ryan P. seems to be a false lead, IMHO. Perhaps there are additional references in the report...

Hope that helps.

 

[JWG]

On pg. 4964 there's info on KC's 'best friend' Ryan P & then right below that is all the stuff about the other (?) Ryan P..They even know the address the # is linked to so how can there be so much confusion if this is actually the SAME person?

Also..Are you saying there are 2 conflicting cell records? IOW! In one there's NOTHING re: Ryan P after the call to the weather? :bang:

There are not two conflicting sets of records. What you are seeing is an incorrect investigative summary - dot's were improperly corrected. Happens all the time. They correct the errors as they find them. They find them usually if they think the particular lead actually is important and they investigate further. It must not have been important as the information was uncovered (incorrectly) in July and still is present in the January 28 report. The point of this particular part of the report was KC's location, and they did have that correct.

 

[jjgram]

Remember... sometimes...if there are different names....
the last name is different because it could be listed in
the STEP/Parents last name... or Mother's remarried name.

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

 

[lawlady84]

On page 4970- it says there was a "pen register and trap and trace" installed based on an "Order" and "Application and Affidavit" - all of which were sealed. So LE got a warrant for a wiretap - who was it? The A home?

TL's was consensual so you don't need a court order- and since this report says the order was sealed, that rules out TL since they published that TL consented to a wiretap (you can't release that information if the record is sealed).

Also, did anyone see through the blackout which phones LE requested the records on?

 

[whiteangora]

Considering the sheer volume of lies that she told them I would think they should have been suspicious. Not simply due to one lie or to ten lies, but to the cummulative effect of hundreds upon hundreds of lies. I have a job and yet I do not get paid and must bum money off of mom and dad almost on a daily basis. I rob from my friends, from my family, even from my sick-grandfather and my grandmother. My mom and dad know I am stealing because I am also stealing from THEM, and yet they continue to look over it day after day after day. I buy nothing for Caylee and never provide anything for her, so what am I doing with my paychecks again? Knowing all of this, I was held up at gun-point at another job that I do not have and sorry they stole your $4,000 deposit...and even though George did NOT believe this and went there and verified that she did not work there, nothing was done. This is not a question of if they should have been suspicious, it is a question of why did they let it go on and on, because they were way beyond suspicion-they had full knowledge that Casey was a huge liar, that she had no job, that she was robbing everybody around and that she was doing nothing for Caylee. Suspicious? They were her crutches for sure...buy WHY is the burning question? WHY did they continue to enable her after all of this and much more that we will never know about? Why did they let it go on so long?:innocent:

With her history of stealing and lying they could have had her either put in jail or committed for mental reasons, that would have cleared the way for them to get custody of Caylee. Then they wouldn't have had to "look the other way" for her many indiscretions and the pawn game could have ended once and for all.

 

[RR0004]

It is quite possible that Casey did not tell extravagent lies from the beginning. It is possible that she began with small lies and worked her way up into the pathological state that she now finds herself in. There had to have been something there from about the age of 15 on developing, slowly but surely into the monster mom that we know and despise. Perhaps it became more difficult for her to "manage" her long lists of lies once their was a baby involved and things became more complicated. Perhaps her personality disorder developed as a response to her own parents disorders? We just don't know. One thing is clear, whatever is wrong with her is no small thing and someone close to her should have noticed.

It is also possible that Casey was a "late bloomer" and when she bloomed, she really bloomed.

Very true. IIRC...Casey wasn't there in the end for HS. (Someone please refresh my memory!) If she was such a good student, why didn't she have plans to go to college...even community college? No, I think 15 is a good time for her spiral to have begun. IMO, no one knew the "real" Casey. Sociopaths are real good at letting you see who they want you to see.

 

[impatientredhead]

With her history of stealing and lying they could have had her either put in jail or committed for mental reasons, that would have cleared the way for them to get custody of Caylee. Then they wouldn't have had to "look the other way" for her many indiscretions and the pawn game could have ended once and for all.

Having someone committed is not an easy thing to accomplish. No way would they have locked her up on Cindy's request. Unless you are threatening to harm yourself, and that will get you 72 hours, mental holds are very rare.

Pursuing the theft charges could have been done, but jail time would be unlikely. And in the off chance they did get a short jail sentence they don't take custody from you for writing bad checks. There are people with much longer and serious rap sheets that have their kids. Caylee did not appear to be abused, neglected, dirty, starved etc....

Cindy's only real option was to boot them out of the house and then show that Casey was not able to provide a proper home for Caylee. As most grandparents she was not willing to put Caylee through that.

 

[Amster]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510021,00.html

Did we already know this baby daddy story?

 

[whiteangora]

Having someone committed is not an easy thing to accomplish. No way would they have locked her up on Cindy's request. Unless you are threatening to harm yourself, and that will get you 72 hours, mental holds are very rare.

Pursuing the theft charges could have been done, but jail time would be unlikely. And in the off chance they did get a short jail sentence they don't take custody from you for writing bad checks. There are people with much longer and serious rap sheets that have their kids. Caylee did not appear to be abused, neglected, dirty, starved etc....

Cindy's only real option was to boot them out of the house and then show that Casey was not able to provide a proper home for Caylee. As most grandparents she was not willing to put Caylee through that.

You're right, scratch the committed idea.
They could have had her arrested each and every time she stole though, and being a repeat offender would have gotten her a long prison sentence. coulda, woulda, shoulda.

 

[Asti]

Not always. I know of a girl who stole from everyone she knew, wrote lots of bad checks (her own and other peoples), stole money from her work, and eventually robbed a bank and she never spent a night in jail AND she retained custody of her kids even though the grandparents tried to get them. Eventually she dumped them on them though when she realized no one would help her any more because she had children.

 

[sua_sponte]

Having someone committed is not an easy thing to accomplish. No way would they have locked her up on Cindy's request. Unless you are threatening to harm yourself, and that will get you 72 hours, mental holds are very rare.

Pursuing the theft charges could have been done, but jail time would be unlikely. And in the off chance they did get a short jail sentence they don't take custody from you for writing bad checks. There are people with much longer and serious rap sheets that have their kids. Caylee did not appear to be abused, neglected, dirty, starved etc....

Cindy's only real option was to boot them out of the house and then show that Casey was not able to provide a proper home for Caylee. As most grandparents she was not willing to put Caylee through that.

You've hit the nail on the head. It's EXTREMELY hard to take custody away from a biological mother who is not willing to give it.
In order to do it the A's would have to let Caylee be abused or neglected first. They didn't really have any options and Casey knew it.

 

[MAMABEAR]

OMG!!!! I love to watch you guys "think". Wow. I'm so lucky to witness all this at W/S. Thank you so very much.

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510021,00.html

Did we already know this baby daddy story?

Not sure if it was discussed in detail, but yes, at least for me, I had read this in the docs.
Casey lied so much who knows if any of it is true..Melina got differing stories from Casey so she soon realized what a liar Casey was/is.

 

[miabellamoure]

*Lastname snipped*

IMHO, this appears to be another error in the LE report.

At exactly the time LE's report states, 20:33:39 on 6/17, after placing a call to Time & Weather (as LE's report correctly states), Casey receives and INCOMING call from G&C's home phone and lets it roll to vmail. There are no outgoing calls until 21:12:56...which is a call placed to Tony L.

Also, FWIW, the lastname provided in LE's report has the same first initial as the lastname of Casey's best guy-friend...also a Ryan P...however, his lastname sounds sorta like "Days Lee".

Hope that helps.

Are you sure about the Ryan in the LE report (last name similar to famous golfer) as being a typo? :waitasec:

I'm not sure if I buy that theory in regards to a name mix up with KC's guy friend, Ryan (who's last name also sounds like the print in my curtains).

I could see it if they even sounded similar but, they don't.

Nevermind...I just got an explanation from JWG...thanks again!