2009.05.01 Document Release: "FBI FORENSIC REPORT" ONLY!

[ibyoungr]

It doesn't surprise me that the toxicology doesn't show anything. For one thing being exposed in the elements for 6 months and the state of decomp IMO would severely jeopardize any toxicology findings. As far as the bullet found, I'm going to wait and see what else may be released either in future discovery or at trial.

I'm still of belief that KC was drugging Caylee to keep her out of the way while she was partying, and she smothered her with the duct tape. (It may not have been with drugs that day, it may have been with the duct tape, as I am leaning more toward believing now). JMO

I have been working on the cell pings and texts along with police interviews. I have been posting them in the Cindy/Casey fight thread. I have in most cases a minute by minute and an hour by hour and play by play. Here

I apologize for this being seriously off topic... but I can't help but to respond.

I firmly disagree that Caylee was stuffed in the trunk while she partied. The pings, cell texts, calls and police interviews do not support this. However, police interviews do support Cindy watching Caylee and in June stated she was getting a little tired of having her all the time.

Truthfully, (not supporting Casey here....) Caylee was with her grandma in her home with her toys and blankie more often than not. Out of the respect for Caylee.... we should remember her life as it truly was spent.
Which "party" do we propose Caylee spent the trunk in the car?

Most would be surprised to know when this all got fired up around May 24th, when Casey's partying picked up steam with the party when Casey met Tony, it appears that Cindy had Caylee it was the beginning of her vacation. Cindy just happened to think that Casey was at work... she became suspicious only after May 25th the ABC party, when at some point before June 15th Cindy found out that Casey was not working on the 25th but at the ABC clothes party. This was one of the straws that broke the camels back. The next straw was when Casey did not come home until 5 AM after the night out at FUSION on June 6th. The next straw was June 13th when Casey did not get home until....3:12 AM.

June 7th Amy states Casey and Caylee were both at Ric's.
June 8th - Casey pings at home and does not party
June 9th - Amy states Casey and Caylee were both at Ric's till the AM
Casey and Caylee take Tony to get jeep later in the day.
June 10th home at 4 pm from Ric's and home until
June 11th - leaves at 1:32 PM home by 8:25 until
June 12th - leaves at 1:30 PM home by 6:15 PM Casey and Caylee were with Tony one or both of these days
June 13th - leaves at 12:15 PM home at 3:12 AM - Cindy reports having Caylee.. Anon caller states she was sure Caylee was with CA this night.
June 14th - leaves at 11:50 AM home at 3:48 PM home Saturday night
June 15th - leaves at 9:15 AM home by 7 -7:30 PM.. and does not leave the area of the Anthony home until June 16th... the last Caylee was seen and Casey was seen without her at 4 PM.

Amy states.. 4 out 5 times.. Caylee was with her Grandma... police interview.

Casey's partying REALLY picked up after June 20th once she was free of Caylee. It appears that she was telling everyone that Caylee was with a Nanny, no longer using her mother as a caretaker.

So it gives the illusion that Caylee was "put in a trunk" since there is NO nanny and Cindy did not have her. However, by this time... Caylee was already thrown out in the woods and Casey did not need to use the trunk nor any drugs.

She only used the trunk to put a DEAD child in as the evidence supports thus far has collected. There is no discovery or evidence that supports a LIVE Caylee in the trunk.

(see I finally tied it into the forensics...)

 

[tankgirl]

I think cluttering up the defense's desk with discovery is hardly injustice. The SA has to release everything they recieve so basically their desk is getting "cluttered" then too. You also see the defense trying to go on every single news program or get in front of a camera to pathetically claim KC's innocence, taint the jury pool, and attack the prosecutors (JB saying Ashton throws "temper tantrums"-come on!). Thankfully the SA is professional and chooses not to comment-they don't have to go out and make themselves look desperate b/c their case is strong. Don't feel bad for the defense--it is comprised of tons of high profile lawyers and experts who are getting their faces out there and sadly being paid from pictures and videos of the deceased 3 year old victim. You know what really isn't justice? A defendant refusing to help anyone look for her daughter, lying to the police to stall them when her MOTHER finally reports her, giving fake names, and not even attempting to look for her while out on bail. You can't say "she was scared" b/c once the 55 days were up and Caylee wasn't returned, she should have talked. She should have talked after the remains were found. She didn't. When she was out on bond she was too busy going on Myspace and FB, baking, having sleepovers with her friends, watching "House," talking about the weather, high-fiving her brother, and crashing at JB's office to even look for Caylee. Even if she didn't do it (which is VERY unlikely IMO), she didn't even make an attempt to actually help locate or find her child when there were many opportunities. That's injustice.

I've found the past couple of doc dumps troubling, but this one in particular. As a "tot mom" (urgh) myself, familiar with the challenges that accompany the joys of toddlers, I find it unfathomable that anyone could murder their child for the sake of convenience. As strongly as I believe that KC is responsible, I still have a few nagging doubts, and realize that the truth really is often stranger than fiction. This dump reinforced those doubts. It is too bad that common sense has no place in the justice system, but I hope that this case will be tried fairly and thoroughly, and I hope that there is indeed some evidence that the SA is holding.

 

[Rumpole]

snip snip
June 15th - leaves at 9:15 AM home by 7 -7:30 PM.. and does not leave the area of the Anthony home until June 16th... the last Caylee was seen and Casey was seen without her at 4 PM.

There is no discovery or evidence that supports a LIVE Caylee in the trunk.

(see I finally tied it into the forensics...)

Thanks for the work on pings etc.
Just a couple minor points:

Who saw KC without Caylee 16th 4:00 pm?

I agree no forensics to prove live Caylee in trunk, but it is not disproved that Caylee was alive? at least for a period.

 

[magic-cat]

There is no way those August tests aren't all completed yet. Maybe the SA is asking his/her FBI buddy to hold on to the results so they can technically say they don't have it yet, but that is cheating, not abiding by the rules. We are now 5 months into 2009. It isn't likely that the December tests aren't all completed by now. They could have hatched many generations of maggots by now. I'm sure that LKB has worked with other prosecutors with FBI test results. It makes sense to me that the SA would have to get and give them but yet they refused to make the call and do what they are obligated to do and the judge allowed it even though these rules are there.

There are plenty of ways that those August tests are not completed yet. For instance, let's take the shoes found in the car. Until they found a location to test against-ie: where Caylee's body was discovered-they had nothing to test for. On December 11 that all changed. And if they had many tests to run, checking this soil against that soil, testing for this fiber and that, matching this hair stuck on the bottom to whichever, matching this footprint in the mud to this shoe and that shoe...those things take time. The law is clear that if an investigation is ongoing and incomplete, then the evidence does not have to be turned over until said investigation is completed...




Please, does anyone seriously believe that the State is just playing a big game with Casey for kicks? This is a MURDER investigation and Casey has been charged. The State is dead serious and I seriously doubt that they are making such requests of the FBI to interfere with the defense. The State is not "cheating", they are being thorough, because they do not want this girl to walk on this most serious and dire charge of which they feel she is guilty due to whatever evidence they HAVE collected, be it circumstancial or solid as a rock.




Perhaps they want to hatch several more generations so the defense cannot claim they were not thorough enough...They are too thorough, they aren't thorough enough...nothing is good enough for the defense that the State may do, is it?



This matter was addressed in court. The defense is whom is obligated to get up off of their butts or come down off of their high horses and do a little leg work of their own. The State indicated that they were not in possession of said reports and that the defense simply needed to make a call (which they had NOT as of the date of the hearing on the matter by the way) and the judge agreed because that IS how things ARE done and how they are supposed to be done. Poor Jose, he can't even make a simple phone call and make a request? If that is the case, then Casey really doesn't have a chance and we have nothing to worry over.

 

[christee]

I could be wrong but doesn't the report say there were no latent prints detected - doesn't that mean there were no prints on the duct tape to compare either to GA, CA, LA or KC? The way I read it, they got prints from GA, CA, & LA to eliminate them from any prints found on the tape. However, the tape had no prints to use to do so. Therefore, they cannot compare them to KC's either - but this report was only dealing with prints collected from GA, CA, & LA under items taken from residence. It has nothing to do with KC's prints but the tape had no prints to compare.

Can someone correct me if I'm reading that wrong?

Also in regards to shoes... Wasn't there another pair of KC's shoes found at TL's after LA picked up her things - under the bed or something? Did those get turned over to LE and have we seen a report regarding them?

I interpreted the fingerprint report on latent prints as results from comparison with GA CA LA only:

"The requested latent print examinations were conducted, but no latent prints were detected" on pgs #5581-5582. KC's prints were not requested I think because she was in jail when this evidence was collected from A's home(?).

http://www.wftv.com/blank/19342108/detail.html

 

[ibyoungr]

Thanks for the work on pings etc.
Just a couple minor points:

Who saw KC without Caylee 16th 4:00 pm?

I agree no forensics to prove live Caylee in trunk, but it is not disproved that Caylee was alive? at least for a period.

Not sure what you are getting at...

Technically, she leaves the house at around 4 PM, Caylee could have been with her alive. She arrives at Tony's without Caylee at 5:57 PM creating a 64 minute gap. With the last ping being at this tower location: 1320 South Atlanta Ave/ Orlando/ FL/ 32807 which is not near Tony's or the Anthony's.

Casey could say she was dropping Caylee off with "the nanny" or killing her. Believe me, the defense will use this as the time she "really" dropped off Caylee with a nanny.

Where better than to kill Caylee than in the privacy of the home where she had taken off her shoes for a nap and possibly change her panties and shorts after her nap since she only pooped in the potty for the first time in the past week and could have had a potty accident?

I am just saying that Caylee was not seen with Casey after some point that day because..we know Casey was at home with her earlier that day. Pings during the first week have her leaving the house usually around 4 pm.
Next thing, she was not ever seen with her again.

 

[nyvictoria]

Please, does anyone seriously believe that the State is just playing a big game with Casey for kicks? This is a MURDER investigation and Casey has been charged. The State is dead serious and I seriously doubt that they are making such requests of the FBI to interfere with the defense. The State is not "cheating", they are being thorough, because they do not want this girl to walk on this most serious and dire charge of which they feel she is guilty due to whatever evidence they HAVE collected, be it circumstancial or solid as a rock.

respectfully snipped for space

ITA! The State does not play games! They are not trying to get a confession or a request for a plea as some OPs have suggested. Something caused them to reinstate to the DP and we may not see the evidence for a while. As Casey would say, "no worries". The State has the goods to seal the deal!

 

[Dear Prudence]

I've found the past couple of doc dumps troubling, but this one in particular. As a "tot mom" (urgh) myself, familiar with the challenges that accompany the joys of toddlers, I find it unfathomable that anyone could murder their child for the sake of convenience. As strongly as I believe that KC is responsible, I still have a few nagging doubts, and realize that the truth really is often stranger than fiction. This dump reinforced those doubts. It is too bad that common sense has no place in the justice system, but I hope that this case will be tried fairly and thoroughly, and I hope that there is indeed some evidence that the SA is holding.

I agree as a mom it is hard to imagine murdering your own child. Most of us moms would lay down our own lives before harming one of our children. But it is a fact that a majority of homicides of children under 5 years old is committed by a parent, equally by mothers and fathers. Casey's former death penalty attorney has been blogging about the subject here:
http://swartzlenamon.com/deathpenaltyblog/in-depth-look-filicide-is-different-1#more-99

He cites a study in which one of the reasons for maternal filicide is simply an unwanted child. The article I linked above is part 1 of 4 and they are pretty interesting. Here is a WS thread on the subject: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72869

As far as the doc dumps being disappointing and the truth sometimes being stranger than fiction, try to remember Occam's Razor. It's the principle that states "The simplest explanation is usually the best one." So forget all the wild theories and conspiracies and think about simplicity. That's what the prosecution is going to present to the jury.

JMO

 

[RR0004]

Well since they used the presence of chloroform in the trunk to 'prove' a decompositional event took place,(prior to Caylees remains beinng found) its kinda pathetic that now they want to use it to suggest it was the cause of Caylees death.

Its going to be present in any human decomposition, so how could its presence proove anything other than a human has begun to decompose?

Methinks the state is starting to look a little desperate.... And it hints at the state still not having a logical or reasonable theory for how little Caylee died. That's what happens when you use tunnel vision.
JMO

I have never seen where it was suggested by the SA. I do know the reports said levels were higher than normal, but haven't heard the SA stating that this IS what caused Caylee's death.

 

[RR0004]

There is no way those August tests aren't all completed yet. Maybe the SA is asking his/her FBI buddy to hold on to the results so they can technically say they don't have it yet, but that is cheating, not abiding by the rules. We are now 5 months into 2009. It isn't likely that the December tests aren't all completed by now. They could have hatched many generations of maggots by now. I'm sure that LKB has worked with other prosecutors with FBI test results. It makes sense to me that the SA would have to get and give them but yet they refused to make the call and do what they are obligated to do and the judge allowed it even though these rules are there.

IIRC, JB could do the work and ask...and for all we know he has the information. If I also remember correctly, the State doesn't HAVE TO release all information per "Sunshine Law"...they can ask to have it blocked.

 

[tankgirl]

I agree as a mom it is hard to imagine murdering your own child. Most of us moms would lay down our own lives before harming one of our children. But it is a fact that a majority of homicides of children under 5 years old is committed by a parent, equally by mothers and fathers. Casey's former death penalty attorney has been blogging about the subject here:
http://swartzlenamon.com/deathpenaltyblog/in-depth-look-filicide-is-different-1#more-99

He cites a study in which one of the reasons for maternal filicide is simply an unwanted child. The article I linked above is part 1 of 4 and they are pretty interesting. Here is a WS thread on the subject: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72869

As far as the doc dumps being disappointing and the truth sometimes being stranger than fiction, try to remember Occam's Razor. It's the principle that states "The simplest explanation is usually the best one." So forget all the wild theories and conspiracies and think about simplicity. That's what the prosecution is going to present to the jury.

JMO

Thanks DearPrudence.. Hope that Occam's Razor is shined to a gleam. May common sense prevail, after all!

 

[nephers]

IIRC, JB could do the work and ask...and for all we know he has the information. If I also remember correctly, the State doesn't HAVE TO release all information per "Sunshine Law"...they can ask to have it blocked.

Also, I think the media has to request the information. I don't think the state just calls them up and says "here ya go". So it's entirely possible that there has been available information but the media hasn't known about it or hasn't requested it.

 

[christee]

That's what I'm hoping. There's got to be something else!

Ditto!

 

[mysteriew]

Well since they used the presence of chloroform in the trunk to 'prove' a decompositional event took place,(prior to Caylees remains beinng found) its kinda pathetic that now they want to use it to suggest it was the cause of Caylees death.

Its going to be present in any human decomposition, so how could its presence proove anything other than a human has begun to decompose?

Methinks the state is starting to look a little desperate.... And it hints at the state still not having a logical or reasonable theory for how little Caylee died. That's what happens when you use tunnel vision.
JMO

Actually I haven't heard the SA or LE talk about the chloroform have you? I know they tested for it and the results are in the docs. I know they checked out the references to it on the webpage.

I know the talking heads have talked about it. And even the even the defense experts have brought it up- and that really surprised me, because why would they speak publicly about something that is detrimental to their client? And us amateur sleuths have tried to figure out what the significance is. But I haven't heard the state talk about it too much. And they haven't named it as the cause of death, they haven't given any cause of death. And we don't know what is listed in the autopsy, because it was sealed.

So I am not sure why you are saying the state is appearing desperate. Since it was "leaked" and discussed by the defense people, before the release of the docs it makes me wonder their motive for releasing it. I don't think that chloroform was the cause of death. I wonder if perhaps it is more a defense strategy. Make everyone believe that chloroform is the cause of death, then go to trial and prove that chloroform can't be proven as the cause of death could confuse the jurors. Or go to court and say it could have caused Caylee's death but KC didn't have access to chloroform so she couldn't have killed her. Or that KC did chloroform Caylee and she died accidently as a result of it. Remember it is the defense's job to raise doubt. This is one way they can do it.

The most obvious COD for Caylee is most likely to be asphixiation. Depriving of oxygen. Because of the tape on her face. And the tape was still there when Caylee was found. Did she chloroform her before she applied the tape? I don't know how that will be handled, whether the state will theorize it or not. Probably not. Because really, think how much worse it will appear to the jury, that not only did KC murder her own child- she did it while the child was concious and alert and staring her right in the face. It takes something like 3 minutes of oxygen deprivation for a person to die. Time 3 minutes- that is a very long time to be staring at your dying child.

But I truly believe that the state is not desperate. They have something, something strong that prompted the death penalty at such a late date. But the defense, now they are desperate. They have been throwing out a lot of spagetti, just to see what will stick in KC's defense.

 

[Rumpole]

Actually I haven't heard the SA or LE talk about the chloroform have you? I know they tested for it and the results are in the docs. I know they checked out the references to it on the webpage.

I know the talking heads have talked about it. And even the even the defense experts have brought it up- and that really surprised me, because why would they speak publicly about something that is detrimental to their client? And us amateur sleuths have tried to figure out what the significance is. But I haven't heard the state talk about it too much. And they haven't named it as the cause of death, they haven't given any cause of death. And we don't know what is listed in the autopsy, because it was sealed.

So I am not sure why you are saying the state is appearing desperate. Since it was "leaked" and discussed by the defense people, before the release of the docs it makes me wonder their motive for releasing it. I don't think that chloroform was the cause of death. I wonder if perhaps it is more a defense strategy. Make everyone believe that chloroform is the cause of death, then go to trial and prove that chloroform can't be proven as the cause of death could confuse the jurors. Or go to court and say it could have caused Caylee's death but KC didn't have access to chloroform so she couldn't have killed her. Or that KC did chloroform Caylee and she died accidently as a result of it. Remember it is the defense's job to raise doubt. This is one way they can do it.

The most obvious COD for Caylee is most likely to be asphixiation. Depriving of oxygen. Because of the tape on her face. And the tape was still there when Caylee was found. Did she chloroform her before she applied the tape? I don't know how that will be handled, whether the state will theorize it or not. Probably not. Because really, think how much worse it will appear to the jury, that not only did KC murder her own child- she did it while the child was concious and alert and staring her right in the face. It takes something like 3 minutes of oxygen deprivation for a person to die. Time 3 minutes- that is a very long time to be staring at your dying child.

But I truly believe that the state is not desperate. They have something, something strong that prompted the death penalty at such a late date. But the defense, now they are desperate. They have been throwing out a lot of spagetti, just to see what will stick in KC's defense.

The simplest answer is usually the best!

Thank you.

Why bring in Chloroform and OTC drugs etc whiich would be impossible to prove even if (big if) they played a part.
We have a dead body with duct tape still in place (near enough). A 2'' wide strip of tape across the mouth (nose) of a 2 year old child is enough of a COD to pose for a jury! Without complicating things?

Additionally, I believe the tape will be linked to the Anthony home, and perhaps the heart sticker residue will be linked to the home and KC

 

[ibyoungr]

The simplest answer is usually the best!

Thank you.

Why bring in Chloroform and OTC drugs etc whiich would be impossible to prove even if (big if) they played a part.
We have a dead body with duct tape still in place (near enough). A 2'' wide strip of tape across the mouth (nose) of a 2 year old child is enough of a COD is pose for a jury! Wht complicate things?

Additionally, I believe the tape will be linked to the Anthony home, and perhaps the heart sticker residue will be linked to the home and KC

ITA! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Partial success - after spending the last 90 mins. looking for the actual report in the official docs. thread, I gave up. This specific info must be buried within other reports.

In my personal notes (sometimes I write stuff down) I jotted down the following, but like the genious I am, I did not put the document or even the date. :banghead:

Here's what I have listed that LE took from CA's medicine cabinet (there were pictures of all the bottles on her bathroom vanity too):

Lexapro '08 / Cepuroxime '07 / Protonix '04 / Altace '04 / Propoxyphene-n w/Apap tabs '06 / Carisoprodol '06 / Clonazepam (klonopin) 8/08 / Hydrochlorothiazide 11/08

Just following through on our discussion from yesterday.

Yeah.. I posted a link to the docs that list the RX's found in the Anthony's home last night( Post is here- http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3688306&postcount=96) as i said, the only drug that is listed by the FBI (in these new docs) as having been tested for that also happened to have been found in the Anthony home is the Klonopin.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thanks OLG. I looked earlier and did not see the post. I had trouble finding what thread I had been on. I saw Dear P. posted too. Where is the FBI list? (I had alot going to today - spent). I'd like to look at something regarding the two lists but don't think this is the right thread. Tomorrow I'll have some time to figure out where to write/explore what I uncovered.

Night

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hi H.P. Where have you been? I got worried about you. Nice to see you're back.

 

[Rumpole]

Hi H.P. Where have you been? I got worried about you. Nice to see you're back.

Time off for good behaviour?:devil: