2009.05.01 Document Release: "FBI FORENSIC REPORT" ONLY!

[sharlock]

Thanks for the work on pings etc.
Just a couple minor points:

Who saw KC without Caylee 16th 4:00 pm?

I agree no forensics to prove live Caylee in trunk, but it is not disproved that Caylee was alive? at least for a period.

I can't remember his name off the top of my head but I am sure it was someone's Dad who saw Casey at the liquor store without Caylee. Might make the name easier for you too find hopefully.

 

[Chicogirl36]

LOL...

Tom is the creator of Facebook. When you create an account. "Tom" becomes your first friend!

This always cracks me up.. when people first meet Tom. I know a few husband's that wanted to know who Tom was, as well.


That silly Tom.

Not to sound "Snarky" ibyounger, but Tom is the founder of "Myspace" , not 'Facebook", but I knew what ya meant. My 10 year old questioned my new man named Tom when I first signed up also :crazy: And yes, he is a default friend that most people keep on. Tom is quite the popular guy.

 

[carrie]

Here ya go, page 48. http://www.wftv.com/_blank/18740668/detail.html

The only drug that is listed as having been found in the Anthony's home that is the same or even in the same drug class (Benzo's) as the drugs listed today in the new docs that the FBI tested the hair for is the Klonopin (Clonazepam).

Thanks OneLostGrl. Appreciate the info and the link to help us stay with the facts.

 

[Phumi]

IIRC, JB could do the work and ask...and for all we know he has the information. If I also remember correctly, the State doesn't HAVE TO release all information per "Sunshine Law"...they can ask to have it blocked.

Yes. According to the Sunshine Laws active criminal investigative or intelligence information may be withheld from the public. "Such information is considered "active" as long "as it is related to an ongoing investigation which is continuing with a reasonable, good faith anticipation of securing an arrest or prosecution in the foreseeable future" or "is directly related to pending prosecutions or appeals." Section 119.011(3)(d), F.S." see link below.

In addition, discovery that has been released to the defendant may be withheld from the public for the following reasons

1) If the information would reveal the identity of a victim of a sexual offense or child abuse pursuant to s. 119.071(2)(h), F.S.; or
2) If a court order has been issued finding that release of the information prior to trial would:

a) be defamatory to the good name of a victim or witness or jeopardize the safety of a victim or witness; and

b) impair the ability of a state attorney to locate or prosecute a codefendant. (my bold)

So it is possible that there is unreleased info. OR tht JB has info. that has not been made public.



http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

That's a pretty serious allegation, regardless of the use of the word maybe.
I hope the SA holds on to as much evidence as possible for as long as possible within the realm of the law.
Now, if I were pro defense I'm sure I would feel differently.

I simply copied and pasted the Florida court rules exerpts. The facts speak for themselves, I don't have to say a word. We see the docs shortly after Baez sees them and the dates are on all the reports and interviews. I must ask, does justice depend on whether one is pro prosecution or pro defense?

Chefmom:

Or, perhaps, since the FBI was involved in this case, they don't have to follow the FL Sunshine Laws, not being under FL jurisdiction? They may see the evidence that they collected as "their" evidence, and only release it to the SA when they deem it appropriate. Then the SA would have no way, or IMO duty, to get it to JB in the timeframe of the Sunshine Law since they do not possess it.[/qote]

Neither Florida Sunshine law or the Federal Freedom of information act can override the Florida discovery laws or rules. In fact it is the other way around. The discovery rules allow for things, such as the jailhouse observation (or set up??) of the day Caylee was found to be kept from public release, just as the photos were.

Trixi491:

I think cluttering up the defense's desk with discovery is hardly injustice....

Multiple copies of anything that isn't amended for corrections or additions is a waste and clutter that has to be sorted through. It does not serve justice.

Ibyounger, good job on your accounting or her days. I've been seeing the same thing. Some of the time she appeared to be home she may have also been at her friend Kristina's, since the same towers would be hit and she stated they often watched each other's children. The only thing I've seen no real support for is WHEN Caylee was placed on Suburban drive or by WHO. The reports so far could support her not even being there the 3rd week of June. Then there is the complication of so many in that area looking and not seeing her.

MagicCat:

There are plenty of ways that those August tests are not completed yet. For instance, let's take the shoes found in the car. Until they found a location to test against-ie: where Caylee's body was discovered-they had nothing to test for. On December 11 that all changed. And if they had many tests to run, checking this soil against that soil, testing for this fiber and that, matching this hair stuck on the bottom to whichever, matching this footprint in the mud to this shoe and that shoe...those things take time. The law is clear that if an investigation is ongoing and incomplete, then the evidence does not have to be turned over until said investigation is completed...

Please, does anyone seriously believe that the State is just playing a big game with Casey for kicks? This is a MURDER investigation and Casey has been charged. The State is dead serious and I seriously doubt that they are making such requests of the FBI to interfere with the defense. The State is not "cheating", they are being thorough, because they do not want this girl to walk on this most serious and dire charge of which they feel she is guilty due to whatever evidence they HAVE collected, be it circumstancial or solid as a rock.

Perhaps they want to hatch several more generations so the defense cannot claim they were not thorough enough...They are too thorough, they aren't thorough enough...nothing is good enough for the defense that the State may do, is it?

This matter was addressed in court. The defense is whom is obligated to get up off of their butts or come down off of their high horses and do a little leg work of their own. The State indicated that they were not in possession of said reports and that the defense simply needed to make a call (which they had NOT as of the date of the hearing on the matter by the way) and the judge agreed because that IS how things ARE done and how they are supposed to be done. Poor Jose, he can't even make a simple phone call and make a request? If that is the case, then Casey really doesn't have a chance and we have nothing to worry over.

How would you explain they having enough time to test all those taken from the closet but not having the other soil samples? Common sense would put those shoes and boots on the top of the list. Once the test is done on the soil that investigation is complete and must be turned over promptly. I have personally seen a lot of games played, so yes, I am serious. I have seen cut and past shadow marks on a discovery document used to convict someone, the shadow dividing the ID of the accused from the test results. Even I know how to remove those cut and past lines before I make the final copy. Now wouldn't you think the defense might question that? I've seen bar codes missing and not match from the paperwork state police forensics lab. Not this case, another, but this isn't an isolated incident.

Don't you think it makes sense that the only person who can request and receive an ordered test is the one that ordered it? Can I call your doctor or lab or school and request your blood work or exam results? I have another story where the defense attorney told his client only he had access to the lab reports which is an obvious lie because even if he wasn't represented by attorney he'd have a right to a copy of his own blood work. (motivation here? get the client to easily agree to what ever way brings in the most money for the least amount of effort.

RR004:

IIRC, JB could do the work and ask...and for all we know he has the information. If I also remember correctly, the State doesn't HAVE TO release all information per "Sunshine Law"...they can ask to have it blocked.

The Sunshine Law is separate from the court Discovery rules. You are right, they could request this but they haven't. It would be shown in the court docket and the judgment filed, if they had. If there has been discovery that the no one asked for and published there would still be a notice of discovery on the court record showing that discovery. Is there any listed there that isn't accounted for in the public releases?

 

[Phumi]

Originally posted by AquarianEssence "...I must ask, does justice depend on whether one is pro prosecution or pro defense?"

Well, not actual justice, but the interpretation of justice. Yes. It certainly does, as the posts in these threads clearly illustrate.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

I believe anything that tested positive, would be tested retested.. and tested other places just to make sure all the duck are in a row.
.. anything that points to guilt may have to be tested way more than things that dont.. (I hope that makes sence)
So if the shoes from the car are still being investigated and retested etc.. they are not subject to being turned over yet.

I also remember the judge telling JB that he would have to call and get the reports from the FBI, in one of the motion hearings.

 

[Marina2]

I believe anything that tested positive, would be tested retested.. and tested other places just to make sure all the duck are in a row.
.. anything that points to guilt may have to be tested way more than things that dont.. (I hope that makes sence)
So if the shoes from the car are still being investigated and retested etc.. they are not subject to being turned over yet.

I also remember the judge telling JB that he would have to call and get the reports from the FBI, in one of the motion hearings.

I agree. It's likely that any positive results would be considered preliminary and subject to more testing. Also, I think positive results would generate investigation related to the results. It's not a stretch to assume reports of positive results would be released later than reports of negative results.

 

[Phumi]

I believe anything that tested positive, would be tested retested.. and tested other places just to make sure all the duck are in a row.
.. anything that points to guilt may have to be tested way more than things that dont.. (I hope that makes sence)
So if the shoes from the car are still being investigated and retested etc.. they are not subject to being turned over yet.

I also remember the judge telling JB that he would have to call and get the reports from the FBI, in one of the motion hearings.

I remember that too. I also remember how long he put off asking for the video of KC the day the remains were found. Mr. Baez may avoid requesting forensic reports just to keep them from becoming public information.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

I remember that too. I also remember how long he put off asking for the video of KC the day the remains were found. Mr. Baez may avoid requesting forensic reports just to keep them from becoming public information.

The defense has already filed his demand for discovery in the beginning. The prosecution is bound by the rules to turn them over promptly, having 15 days in the beginning for the first discovery release, so the only way Baez could delay it from public release is to petition the court to keep it private. The SA could do the same but they don't have the privilege of simply withholding or delaying as they so desire. Yes, it is possible that if they retested that would take longer but how many months would that retest take? I find it highly suspicious.

 

[Phumi]

The defense has already filed his demand for discovery in the beginning. The prosecution is bound by the rules to turn them over promptly, having 15 days in the beginning for the first discovery release, so the only way Baez could delay it from public release is to petition the court to keep it private. The SA could do the same but they don't have the privilege of simply withholding or delaying as they so desire. Yes, it is possible that if they retested that would take longer but how many months would that retest take? I find it highly suspicious.

We are getting off topic here, but I'm sure if JB had a problem with how quickly he is getting discovery, he would be jumping up and down screaming and filing motions on a daily basis. The fact is, BOTH sides play the system to gain advantage over the other side. And BOTH sides make a big show of accusing the OTHER side of playing the system. It's wrong and it's unfortunate --but it happens.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thanks OneLostGrl. Appreciate the info and the link to help us stay with the facts.

I appreciate the link also. And apologize for any confusion I have caused by asking where the list from the FBI is - duh! I take little vacations from time-to-time that cause me to forget where I am. :crazy:

That said, as I've noticed mentioned in previous posts, the state may not have released all of the discovery. There may be two medicine cabinets for all we know. I spent some time yesterday looking into the drugs they did take out of the A's house and, as a result, a new angle/possibility came to mind.

Briefly, one of the drugs taken from the A's home is called Clonazapam (Klonopin) as OLG has pointed out. When you look up this drug, it says "used to control seizures" and can be used for anxiety and other uses (not specified).

Let me point out that the date on a pill container does not mean that the person who uses it had it for the first time that month. Some drugs are controlled and have to be issued in 30 day periods. Some 90 days but when you get your new prescription filled, the container will have the current month even though you've been taking it for five years.

The prescription for Clonazepam was filled in August 2008. KC was living at Hopespring drive in August 2008.

There is/was a seizure thread and I think I'll take my thoughts there soon.

Furthermore, regarding the other drugs found at the A's, several are dangerous.

Carisopradol is a tranquilizer (to relax muscles), Propoxyphene-n is a pain killer and causes drowsiness (Darvon is an example), and Clonazepam is used to control seizures known as a anti-convulsant used especially in the treatment of epilepsy.

The rest are antibiotic (cefuroxime), GERD/heartbburn (Protonix), blood pressure medicine (Altace & Hydrochlorothiazide), depression & anxiety (Lexapro).

For the record, if any of the above are taken in overdose, call poison control (I'm not saying that's what happened).

Finally, I learned, there are many different kinds of Epilepsy, two of which are:

"status" epilepticus is a prolonged seizure lasting five minutes or more.

Lennox-Gastaut Epilepsy begins in early childhood and is known to cause behavioral disturbances, poor social skills, attention seeking behavior and staring spells.

I'm not someone who thinks I know everything. I like learning new things but am a scatter brain (Gemini rising!). For those of you who know exactly what happened, you are much smarter/insightful peeps than me. That's o'kay with me cuz I'm a turtle too. My little rant is for feeling as if I got ganged up on for asking questions or for posting. :blowkiss:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I agree, but it was after Caylee was missing. All the prescriptions found in the bedroom were filled from Aug-08 to Dec-08. Sorry if I didn't state it more clearly.

How can you say this? How do you know? You can surmise from logic but how do you really know?

How do you know all the drugs in that house have been revealed to the public? We just don't know.

Please don't state things as factual. If you do know for certain, please reveal your source to all of us. We'd appreciate it.

 

[NSS]

Why did they do an autopsy on the snake, and what is the relevance to the case?

I think we maybe looking at forensics in a misguided fashion. (Myself included). Tests on the snake, and toxicology on the hair etc were not to prove that KC poisoned her child.

Indeed the opposite may be true.

Poisoning allows for the possibility of an 'accidental death' or 'a lesser level of murder'.
Once LE received these results, they put the DP back on the table, maybe because they have now ruled OUT the possibility of an accident.

The SA has to prove first degree murder, that can be achieved by disproving the chloroform intoxication. KC could have used plain old fashioned suffocation, but the SA can't PROVE that, they now have to prove it was a deliberate act - by eliminating possiblt accidents.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If either of the squeaky clean parental units have any professional dry cleaner solvent and used it, it could account for the chloroform odor being in the trunk, since dry cleaning solvent contains chloroform

Also by reading the reports months ago, there seem to be a problem with the results due to a very high octane odor. I may, prematurely, conclude that kc was using gasoline to dilute the smell of the stain.

If this is true, it would explain why KC was using so much gas the month of June and needed it out of a can. That's a very interesting angle. I never would have thought of that. Thanks.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

In reference to the bullet casing:

I have seen some comments that there is no indication that Caylee had been shot, but there are many instances where a bullet wound does not cause any damage to the bones and only damages soft tissue, yet still proves to be fatal. Since little Caylee was completely skeletonized when recovered, it would be virtually impossible to determine whether she had been shot or not.

I find it very interesting that George went out and bought a gun last August in anticipation of a potential suicide attempt (according to him). Almost every single retired law enforcement person that I know has maintained possession of some sort of firearm after their retirement. Did George?

If he did keep his firearm from back when he was a deputy, then where is THAT firearm and could it have been used in this horrific crime against Caylee?

I would be very interested to know from law enforcement if George ever claimed to have "lost" a firearm, if he did indeed have one from years ago. Was he ever even asked if he owned a firearm (prior to the purchase in August)?

I am rereading the thread because I'm awake and am trying to comprehend what I missed/messed up.

Slightly OT, can you believe that GA was able to purchase a new gun in August 2008? If that's the case, shouldn't the seller of contacted LE or do you think he may have? By August, GA was famously in the news because of Caylee's disappearance. Do you think the registration papers got run by LE (figure the odds) and that is why they went to confiscate the gun? I can't recall how LE found out (was it Lee?). Anyhoo, GA was not a good candidate for a freshly purchased gun.

And to reiterate your point, whatever happened to GA's original gun?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Ok, regarding the bullet casing marked as Q110 in the FBI report.
I happen to own the Savage .30-06 one of the possible matches for the casing, and am a fairly small framed lady at about 130 lbs. I can handle this weapon pretty easily, there is some pretty serious recoil. Because my sleuth loving hubby was sitting right next to me, I inquired, do you think a girl Casey's size would be able to handle this gun? His immediate answer was " anyone can handle that gun to shoot it once, our six yr old could manage to shoot it once". I can tell you that this is my deer hunting rifle, its a fairly large caliber, and not something I would expect to find lying around in suburban Orlando!!! Not too much big game in the city. And its loud, neighbors would surely hear it. This particular gun has a failry long barrel. Its long range, not meant for target shooting etc. Not to be graphic, but if something small was shot with this caliber of a weapon, it would not make a large entry wound, and doesn't scatter like a shotgun. The exit wound would be larger than entry. I hope this helps those who aren't familiar with this type of weapon. If I could figure out how to post pictures here I will take some of my gun and the bullets if you all would like to have a visual. That is is some techy can help mama figure out how! lol

Would this type of gun ever be used/issued by LE? Are these types mainly used for hunting?

My husband had a heavy, large calibur handgun. One time he took me to the shooting range so I could experience what it felt like to shoot a gun (many years ago). When we had our son, he sold it because it didn't have a safety lock. It was meant to pull out and bang, bang, bang real fast. He got a smaller calibur gun that locked (but never kept it loaded in the house). When our boy got old enough, he took him to the range so that he could get first hand knowledge of how a gun works. He wanted him to respect it. My husband spent most of his life in the Army so he is gun savvy but prefers not to use 'um. That's my full knowledge of guns not that anybody cares.:crazy:

 

[ibyoungr]

Not to sound "Snarky" ibyounger, but Tom is the founder of "Myspace" , not 'Facebook", but I knew what ya meant. My 10 year old questioned my new man named Tom when I first signed up also :crazy: And yes, he is a default friend that most people keep on. Tom is quite the popular guy.

Thanks for the correction. I use Facebook and have Facebook on the brain.:crazy:

Funny thing for me.. my husband's name is Tom and people ask me why he doesn't look like his pic and if that is an old one of him!!!

 

[Dear Prudence]

How can you say this? How do you know? You can surmise from logic but how do you really know?

How do you know all the drugs in that house have been revealed to the public? We just don't know.

Please don't state things as factual. If you do know for certain, please reveal your source to all of us. We'd appreciate it.

Wow, I am still not explaining myself very well apparently. I was only referring to the prescriptions found during the Dec. 20, 2008 search warrant. No, of course I don't know all of the prescriptions that have ever been in that house. Just as you tell me not to make presumptions, people should not make the presumption that CA always left her meds in her bedroom just because that's where they were in December 2008. Please see the link for my source. It is not a secret as I had already posted it earlier in the thread (see pg. 48 & 49):
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18740668/detail.html

It states ALL prescriptions located in the residence were documented as follows. Then it lists each drug, the date of prescription and the location where it was found. What "things" did I state as factual that you think are not?

 

[reeseeva]

LOL- I know, sad huh?! I don't have much else to offer here at WS other than insight into mental illness and addiction. Shoulda, coulda, woulda! :crazy:

And, Experience, Life Lessons, Fortitude, Courage & tremendous Insight, just to name a few........Don't sell yourself short!:hand: