2009.05.01 Document Release: "FBI FORENSIC REPORT" ONLY!

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Hi to all, I agree with what you are saying.I wish I had a better memory but I am 77 yrs. and I dont. I know I read on the BodyFarm that if chloroform were used only once it wont show up. I think thee defense will say Zanny came in and took her.That would cover the bags etc. being from the house.It's going to be a tough fight at first,reminds me of SP.and how we worried.I also read there (somewhere) the stains in the trunk are decomp stains.I have read sooo much at that site its hard to remember what is where,I do speak the truth though :)

I don't think they'll bring out the Zanny defense without Casey taking the stand. As NG said, she'll be sliced up like a Thanksgiving turkey if she does. She is the only person on earth that has ever seen the Invisnanny and IMO, the story must come from her.

The only way I see her taking the stand is if it's clear the DP is looming. She may get on the stand and say it was an accident. I don't believe that for one second but with enough crocodile tears and the right juror, it may work. I have seen posts where people thought the duct tape and sticker were a sign of love or remorse. :eek:

I was worried about the SP jury too. I think the OJ jury is not far from our minds when it comes to a case like this because clearly the guilty walk free sometimes.

As far as the decomp stains, I think that car was cleaned thoroughly before LE took it into evidence. A former LE officer did live in the house.
 
Here ya go (see pg. 48 & 49): http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18740668/detail.html

I remember reading it and thinking she had a lot of scripts, but some were very old and should be thrown away (i'd think a nurse would know that.) The old ones were in the medicine cabinet and the newer ones on her bedside table IIRC. They were taken from the house during a search warrent served in December after Caylee was found.

Who in their right mind would leave meds on a bedside table with a toddler in the house. That is just asking for trouble.
 
One of the first forensic reports said the chloroform was higher than normal for a decompositional event (I am going from memory here). As I recall they used the word "pure" to describe it. At the time I figured maybe chlorine and bleach combined contributed to the production of chloroform....then I started thinking dry cleaning solvent contains it. But now, it is saying it was not from chemicals? Correct?

That is consistent with their saying prior that it was chloroform in a "pure" state. Now I am really confused. Does pure state mean naturally occurring as from decomposition? or does it mean from a pure source such as from a bottle of chloroform that can be purchased? Or neither? If the body was removed from the car three weeks prior, I would think the cloroform gases would be gone...No?

The forensic report was the first one released and it was a preliminary. I have to read again....*sigh*
I don't have the document in front of me, but I thought they said that the chloroform was found in much greater concentrations than what would be seen in human decomposition. This will be an interesting topic come trial time, I am anxious to hear how the experts compare the chloroform in Casey's trunk to normal amounts when a decomposing body is present.
 
Who in their right mind would leave meds on a bedside table with a toddler in the house. That is just asking for trouble.

I agree, but it was after Caylee was missing. All the prescriptions found in the bedroom were filled from Aug-08 to Dec-08. Sorry if I didn't state it more clearly.
 
Am I missing something I thought there would be more
released in the doc.
 
I don't have the document in front of me, but I thought they said that the chloroform was found in much greater concentrations than what would be seen in human decomposition. This will be an interesting topic come trial time, I am anxious to hear how the experts compare the chloroform in Casey's trunk to normal amounts when a decomposing body is present.
The report describes chloroform as a normal product of "early human decomposition"
"primarily detected in anaerobic decomposition"

The anaerobic refers to the early stages where reactions occur within the body. Later as the body beaks open more oxygen is available for aerobic reactions. In this case, however, we have a body triple bagged and contained in a closed trunk. Likely to be deprived oxygen conditions where anaerobic reactions persist. That includes formation of chloroform
 
I'm going to rant here but ON TOPIC. What the heck kind of interviews are these? I mean REALLY! They sound like neanderthals interviewing neaderthals! No one finishes a sentence...The interviewers can't ask a proper question and the interviewee's can't string a proper sentence together! Good grief! It's no wonder they didn't release these before. Blah blah blah blah. I'm so disapointed with this last dump. Not because of their lack of information about the case but because of the lack of intelligence in searching for answers!

I felt this way before and feel it tenfold now.

MOO




Um...er...a...I...well...see...um...yeah, I see what you mean...LOLOL
 
So many people keep saying they hope the SA is holding back the real evidence so I had to go looking for the discovery rules for Florida. The demand for discovery was properly filed on October 15, 08 so the state is obligated to abide by these rules.

http://www3.fdle.state.fl.us/OGC/Legal_Bulletins/lb9602_9-24.html
RULE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE 3.220. DISCOVERY
(b) Prosecutor's Discovery Obligation.
(1) Within 15 days after service of the Notice of Discovery, the prosecutor shall serve a written Discovery Exhibit which shall disclose to the defendant and permit the defendant to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the following information and material within the state's possession or control:

I won't list all that follows here to save space excepe a few sections.. The entire discovery rule can be read at the above link. Have they ever acted within 15 days? The first notice of supplimental discovery was 14 days after the 10/14 arrest but even then Baez had to motion to compel, begging the judge to force them to release discovery and allow them to inspect. But he was refused or the SA was given a huge amount of time over the normal limit to abide by the discovery rules.Look at the dates on various documents and compare to when they wee actually handed over to defence. This batch is the first time I've seen a recent date on anything.

(H) whether there has been any electronic surveillance, including wiretapping, of the premises of the defendant or of conversations to which the defendant was a party and any documents relating thereto;

I guess we can assume they didn't tape the Anthony home?

(j) Continuing Duty to Disclose. If, subsequent to compliance with the rules, a party discovers additional witnesses or material that the party would have been under a duty to disclose or produce at the time of the previous compliance, the party shall promptly disclose or produce the witnesses or material in the same manner as required under these rules for initial discovery.

(k) Court May Alter Times. The court may alter the times for compliance with any discovery under these rules on good cause shown.

(l ) Protective Orders.

(1) Motion to Restrict Disclosure of Matters. On a showing of good cause, the court shall at any time order that specified disclosures be restricted, deferred, or exempted from discovery, that certain matters not be inquired into, that the scope of the deposition be limited to certain matters, that a deposition be sealed and after being sealed be opened only by order of the court, or make such other order as is appropriate to protect a witness from harassment, unnecessary inconvenience, or invasion of privacy, including prohibiting the taking of a deposition. All material and information to which a party is entitled, however, must be disclosed in time to permit the party to make beneficial use of it.

(2) Motion to Terminate or Limit Examination. At any time during the taking of a deposition, on motion of a party or of the deponent, and upon a showing that the examination is being conducted in bad faith or in such manner as to unreasonably annoy, embarrass, or oppress the deponent or party, the court in which the action is pending or the circuit court where the deposition is being taken may (1) terminate the deposition, (2) limit the scope and manner of the taking of the deposition, (3) limit the time of the deposition, (4) continue the deposition to a later time, (5) order the deposition to be taken in open court, and, in addition, may (6) impose any sanction authorized by this rule. If the order terminates the deposition, it shall be resumed thereafter only upon the order of the court in which the action is pending. Upon demand of any party or deponent, the taking of the deposition shall be suspended for the time necessary to make a motion for an order.

This is most likely why the Anthony's felt they had the legal right to refuse certain questions and stop the deposition at a certain point. It's a matter of the judge's opinion on what constitutes unnecessary, frivilous, annoyance, oppression, etc.


The only time the SA seems to have handed anything over within 15 days was at the beginning and then only handed over part. The word promptly has never been applied with any of the later items that are proper discovery materials as it should be. And they seem to be releasing the same thing over and over again, cluttering up the defense's desk and taking his time sorting through all the redundant materials. Is that justice? I'm beginning to understand why there are so many innocent convicted.

If they tested the shoes from the car, they were sent long before the ones taken in December from the closet, weren't they?
 
So many people keep saying they hope the SA is holding back the real evidence so I had to go looking for the discovery rules for Florida. The demand for discovery was properly filed on October 15, 08 so the state is obligated to abide by these rules.

http://www3.fdle.state.fl.us/OGC/Legal_Bulletins/lb9602_9-24.html
RULE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE 3.220. DISCOVERY
(b) Prosecutor's Discovery Obligation.
(1) Within 15 days after service of the Notice of Discovery, the prosecutor shall serve a written Discovery Exhibit which shall disclose to the defendant and permit the defendant to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the following information and material within the state's possession or control:

I won't list all that follows here to save space excepe a few sections.. The entire discovery rule can be read at the above link. Have they ever acted within 15 days? The first notice of supplimental discovery was 14 days after the 10/14 arrest but even then Baez had to motion to compel, begging the judge to force them to release discovery and allow them to inspect. But he was refused or the SA was given a huge amount of time over the normal limit to abide by the discovery rules.Look at the dates on various documents and compare to when they wee actually handed over to defence. This batch is the first time I've seen a recent date on anything.

(H) whether there has been any electronic surveillance, including wiretapping, of the premises of the defendant or of conversations to which the defendant was a party and any documents relating thereto;

I guess we can assume they didn't tape the Anthony home?

(j) Continuing Duty to Disclose. If, subsequent to compliance with the rules, a party discovers additional witnesses or material that the party would have been under a duty to disclose or produce at the time of the previous compliance, the party shall promptly disclose or produce the witnesses or material in the same manner as required under these rules for initial discovery.

(k) Court May Alter Times. The court may alter the times for compliance with any discovery under these rules on good cause shown.

~~~respectfully snipped for space~~~

My understanding of the Florida Rules governing release of discovery is that if any discovery is still being investigated it is exempted from being turned over to the other party until such time as all investigation has been completed.

This could very well explain why some things seem to be turned over quickly (the investigation regarding that information was quickly concluded), and why other pieces of discovery have not yet been turned over to the other party (the investigation regarding that information is ongoing and incomplete).

I am sorry that I do not have a link to back up my statements; I am simply going by memory as to what has previously been posted regarding this topic.
 
So many people keep saying they hope the SA is holding back the real evidence so I had to go looking for the discovery rules for Florida. The demand for discovery was properly filed on October 15, 08 so the state is obligated to abide by these rules.

respectfully snipped

Yes, the state is obligated to abide by the rules. Just because the OCSO has evidence or requested others to analyze evidence doesn't mean they have given it to the SA yet. So, if the state doesn't have it they can't release it to the defense.
 
In the WFTV article today it says the following about the chloroform and the fact that the hair wasn't tested for the drug,

"The FBI said it did not test for chloroform, because the FBI's chemistry unit said that wouldn't tell them anything, because chloroform is a by-product of decomposition."

http://www.wftv.com/news/19334859/detail.html

Now in the FBI report, it doesn't say anything about chloroform being a product of decomp and that being the reason they didn't test for it (or atleast I couldn't find it)...I am confused as to where WFTV got this from...

Well since they used the presence of chloroform in the trunk to 'prove' a decompositional event took place,(prior to Caylees remains beinng found) its kinda pathetic that now they want to use it to suggest it was the cause of Caylees death.

Its going to be present in any human decomposition, so how could its presence proove anything other than a human has begun to decompose?

Methinks the state is starting to look a little desperate.... And it hints at the state still not having a logical or reasonable theory for how little Caylee died. That's what happens when you use tunnel vision.
JMO
 
There is no way those August tests aren't all completed yet. Maybe the SA is asking his/her FBI buddy to hold on to the results so they can technically say they don't have it yet, but that is cheating, not abiding by the rules. We are now 5 months into 2009. It isn't likely that the December tests aren't all completed by now. They could have hatched many generations of maggots by now. I'm sure that LKB has worked with other prosecutors with FBI test results. It makes sense to me that the SA would have to get and give them but yet they refused to make the call and do what they are obligated to do and the judge allowed it even though these rules are there.
 
See, I personally have never believed KC put the duct tape on Caylee's mouth at or even near the point of death. I believe the duct tape was put on Caylee's mouth somewhere between the 18th and the 20th (one of the trips to the Anthony home and most likely the one with the shovel incident). By that time Caylee would have been in the trunk for anywhere from 2 to 4 days. At that point there would have been severe and grotesque distortion of Caylee's face including protusion of the tongue and significantly increased fluids coming from the mouth. I believe the duct tape was placed around Caylee mouth/skull at this point. Most likely so KC wouldn't have to see her distorted mouth and to try to stop the seepage of fluids.

I don't believe the duct tape was used in the act of murder...I never have.

bold.
WOW! Boggles the mind. Cold and callous! Touch your dead, rotting baby.
 
Well since they used the presence of chloroform in the trunk to 'prove' a decompositional event took place,(prior to Caylees remains beinng found) its kinda pathetic that now they want to use it to suggest it was the cause of Caylees death.

Its going to be present in any human decomposition, so how could its presence proove anything other than a human has begun to decompose?

Methinks the state is starting to look a little desperate.... And it hints at the state still not having a logical or reasonable theory for how little Caylee died. That's what happens when you use tunnel vision.
JMO

The state in the SP case never had a theory on how Laci died. He still got the DP. Bottom line, the state doesn't have to show how a person dies in order to get the DP.
 
There is no way those August tests aren't all completed yet. Maybe the SA is asking his/her FBI buddy to hold on to the results so they can technically say they don't have it yet, but that is cheating, not abiding by the rules. We are now 5 months into 2009. It isn't likely that the December tests aren't all completed by now. They could have hatched many generations of maggots by now. I'm sure that LKB has worked with other prosecutors with FBI test results. It makes sense to me that the SA would have to get and give them but yet they refused to make the call and do what they are obligated to do and the judge allowed it even though these rules are there.

That's a pretty serious allegation, regardless of the use of the word maybe.
I hope the SA holds on to as much evidence as possible for as long as possible within the realm of the law.
Now, if I were pro defense I'm sure I would feel differently.
ETA: This bashing of the SA and LE is getting redundant, they are the only ones who seem to
care about finding justice for little Caylee. Baez and the A family will be on the same side of the court room.
 
I'm confused. If the SA did have to turn over evidence within the 15 days they got it, like Aquarian said, why did they not release the tapes of TL going undercover in July until this month. That's 9 months..
 
There is no way those August tests aren't all completed yet. Maybe the SA is asking his/her FBI buddy to hold on to the results so they can technically say they don't have it yet, but that is cheating, not abiding by the rules. We are now 5 months into 2009. It isn't likely that the December tests aren't all completed by now. They could have hatched many generations of maggots by now. I'm sure that LKB has worked with other prosecutors with FBI test results. It makes sense to me that the SA would have to get and give them but yet they refused to make the call and do what they are obligated to do and the judge allowed it even though these rules are there.

Or, perhaps, since the FBI was involved in this case, they don't have to follow the FL Sunshine Laws, not being under FL jurisdiction? They may see the evidence that they collected as "their" evidence, and only release it to the SA when they deem it appropriate. Then the SA would have no way, or IMO duty, to get it to JB in the timeframe of the Sunshine Law since they do not possess it.
 
The only time the SA seems to have handed anything over within 15 days was at the beginning and then only handed over part. The word promptly has never been applied with any of the later items that are proper discovery materials as it should be. And they seem to be releasing the same thing over and over again, cluttering up the defense's desk and taking his time sorting through all the redundant materials. Is that justice? I'm beginning to understand why there are so many innocent convicted.

If they tested the shoes from the car, they were sent long before the ones taken in December from the closet, weren't they?

I think cluttering up the defense's desk with discovery is hardly injustice. The SA has to release everything they recieve so basically their desk is getting "cluttered" then too. You also see the defense trying to go on every single news program or get in front of a camera to pathetically claim KC's innocence, taint the jury pool, and attack the prosecutors (JB saying Ashton throws "temper tantrums"-come on!). Thankfully the SA is professional and chooses not to comment-they don't have to go out and make themselves look desperate b/c their case is strong. Don't feel bad for the defense--it is comprised of tons of high profile lawyers and experts who are getting their faces out there and sadly being paid from pictures and videos of the deceased 3 year old victim. You know what really isn't justice? A defendant refusing to help anyone look for her daughter, lying to the police to stall them when her MOTHER finally reports her, giving fake names, and not even attempting to look for her while out on bail. You can't say "she was scared" b/c once the 55 days were up and Caylee wasn't returned, she should have talked. She should have talked after the remains were found. She didn't. When she was out on bond she was too busy going on Myspace and FB, baking, having sleepovers with her friends, watching "House," talking about the weather, high-fiving her brother, and crashing at JB's office to even look for Caylee. Even if she didn't do it (which is VERY unlikely IMO), she didn't even make an attempt to actually help locate or find her child when there were many opportunities. That's injustice.
 
bold.
WOW! Boggles the mind. Cold and callous! Touch your dead, rotting baby.

It's details like this that remind me how horrific this crime really is. Kind of like you get desensitized for awhile, then you think of her putting tape on her baby's 2-4 day old corpse, to keep fluids and the tongue in. If that's what happened. I'm horrified all over again.
 
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