2009.09.04 Cindy sent D.Casey/Hoover to remains site Addtional VIDEO RELEASED #2

[The World According]

Agreed, in fact..I believe when Cindy sent that Bear for her to get "vibes" off of..it included a note on where caylee is. MOO

According to Gerlado through Brad and Hoover, check it out...maps and graphics! [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5659425&postcount=1455"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - All Texas Equusearch-Related Filings #1[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_sEh-hVZcA[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYweJpl7lwo[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0_ZJgJzApY[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHRAKzFNol8[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQcxlUjNZbc[/ame]
the whole matter was staged so they could later claim despite their search, there was no body until after Casey was jailed
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMIxHJc4Tow[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJPPUJ5-BIs[/ame]
coo coo clock
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWXdPswWbs[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ZOW3xuzTo[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqHGkKVkeS4[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ykGpm4aKY[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UvokUIHdBY[/ame]

Ginette, Dom, Hoover, Baez, the Anthonys....birds of a feather

 

[jennyb]

I also think Baez never had any intention of paying DC. Not a nickle, not a dime. And DC was so green and so anxious for the pot of gold he was probably promised he went along with the scheme.

No PI worth his salt would've worked without proper billing and compensation. It was all just very sleazy.

 

[jennyb]

ITA. And has DC ever been paid? Nope. No valid PI would stand for that. Look at Mort and the other guy. They sure are being paid. DC was a patsy for sure. He better thank GOD everyday that Kronk is the one who found those remains and became famous for doing so. I have the distinct feeling that person was supposed to be DC, and not in a good way at all.

Oops I owe you a coke. Didn't see your comment!

 

[Leila]

BBM.

Leila, I so hope you are right about this. I can hardly stand the thought that the A's will get away scott free, after all they have done to obstruct a child's murder investigation.

I hope so too! I just can't see the Anthonys getting a pass on all they've done to obstruct justice. It sets a dangerous precedent. Going forward, I'd hate to see other families in a similar situation think it's acceptable to tamper with evidence, lie to LE, and interfere with the investigation into a murder, following the Anthony's example.

When you think back over the past two plus years and all that happened, Cindy Anthony should be charged with accessory after the fact, in addition to tampering with evidence and obstruction of justice. I think she did more than George to hamper LE efforts, but more importantly, Cindy was working feverishly to cover Casey's crimes.

I think DC holds the key to much of Cindy's activities in the fall of 2008. The emails between DC and Cindy suggest there was a quest to find someone to pin the blame on for Caylee's murder.

But most importantly, DC was searching the woods off of Suburban Drive because Cindy sent him there. She as much as admitted this in December 2008 when she told Yuri Malich that she "sent someone there in November and nothing was there."

Clearly, Cindy was withholding information from LE. She knew where Caylee's remains were. She may not have known the exact spot, but she knew the general location. Had she cooperated with LE, I think Caylee's remains would have been found much earlier.

DC knew too. JH said that DC called him and said, "we're going to go get Caylee today." And JH video taped DC searching the woods very close to where Caylee's remains were later found. I think it's very possible that DC was actually at the remains site, but was looking for an intact body and didn't recognize what he saw as the remains.

 

[Leila]

But if DC actually located the remains in November, why were they still there in December? Would he not have removed them?

In other words, if we think DC was sent out to find the remains and he DID find them - then what? Just leave them there for anyone else to find? That doesn't make sense.

I think it's very possible that Dominic DID find the remains site, but didn't recognize it as such. I think they were looking for a whole, intact, body, not bones scattered over a huge area. Unless DC actually found the skull, a human skull, he may have dismissed the remains site as a lot of trash thrown there and animal bones.

It took RK finding a human skull to alert authorities.

 

[faefrost]

I'm still on the fence about how DC got the info, but IMO it has to be one of two ways: the telephone game you outline above, or CA finally putting the pieces together herself, maybe with LA's help, after months of studying KC's "clues."

(Although I don't remember KC giving clues that would lead DC to be so very very interested in black garbage bags at that time. ullhair

While I suspect that it was Cindy who forcefully sent Dom and Hoover into those woods, there is no way it was a matter of Cindy figuring it out for herself. If you look at everyone and everything we saw during that time period, it was obvious that something happened there. Something changed.

But it is clearly obvious from watching that tape that Dom knew exactly what he was looking for. he was looking for a bag. He was looking for pavers. He was looking for pink. he had far too many specifics for it to have been something that Cindy pieced together.

Unfortunately for him and KC, and fortunately for Caylee, while he obviously knew the very detailed specifics of what he was supposed to be looking for. He really had no idea of what it would look like or how to find it in dense underbrush and rough ground. Nor did he have any idea just how much trash and trash bags there can be in a densely wooded area just off a major road and near a school.

Out of curiousity, to our knowlege has the defense ever scheduled a deposition with Dom or Hoover? Have they taken the time to try and assess exactly what they might say under oath on the stand when confronted with that tape? We know that he SA has used investigative subpoena's to interview DC under oath. But because JB never added him to the defense witness list they didn't get to sit in. And until or unless the SA requests transcripts of those interviews they will not be released under the Sunshine Laws. It's obvious that there is something very hinky and disturbing about their story. Enough so that it prompted HHJS to file a bar complaint.

My suspicions are the chain of information goes something like this. Somehow DC heard a fairly detailed accounting of how and where the childs body was disposed of in the course of interacting with JB and KC (yeah there will be some rather colorful debates here about privilege and work product and whether DC was a valid and protected employee. I still say no as he was an agent of the defendant and not the defense). He also had some sort of strange relationship with CA. At some point in November he finally spilled what he knew to Cindy. At which point she immediately dispatched him out with his poking stick to go find the remains. This is something that JB did not want. he wanted those remains to stay unknown and undiscovered. Hence his instructions when he found out about it to tell no one but him.

Personally I can't wait to see the look on HHJP's face as he sits there vibrating rapidly in his chair while they attempt to explain that they were looking there and only there because that's where the psychic told them to look.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

Yes - very telling IMHO. Of course, the question still remains how did DC get the info of exactly where the body is...but I think we can all surmise that KC told JB, JB told DC, as well as telling him not to call the police if he found the body....and here we sit today.

Well when I was collecting info on this for my possible daisy chain chart -- I have 8/08/08 DC visits KC in jail for first time!
08/08/08
DC / KC
DC speaks with KC for first time at jail

09/12/08
KC / DC
DC signs contract with Casey

10/01/08
DC / JB
DC released JB from contract

Mid Oct. - 1st week in Nov.
DC / G&C
DC signs contract with G&C – GA testifies 1st week of November – give or take 2 weeks. Cindy testifies has had verbal prior to this contract.

11/15/08
DC / J. Hoover
Go on first search at Suburban Dr.-Video is shot and date stamped and search abandoned house.“Meet -N-Greet KFN “
None
11/16/08
DC / J. Hoover
Go on second search
None
11/20/08
Nejame
Resigns as G&C attorney

 

[ThinkTank]

While I suspect that it was Cindy who forcefully sent Dom and Hoover into those woods, there is no way it was a matter of Cindy figuring it out for herself. If you look at everyone and everything we saw during that time period, it was obvious that something happened there. Something changed.

But it is clearly obvious from watching that tape that Dom knew exactly what he was looking for. he was looking for a bag. He was looking for pavers. He was looking for pink. he had far too many specifics for it to have been something that Cindy pieced together.

Unfortunately for him and KC, and fortunately for Caylee, while he obviously knew the very detailed specifics of what he was supposed to be looking for. He really had no idea of what it would look like or how to find it in dense underbrush and rough ground. Nor did he have any idea just how much trash and trash bags there can be in a densely wooded area just off a major road and near a school.

Out of curiousity, to our knowlege has the defense ever scheduled a deposition with Dom or Hoover? Have they taken the time to try and assess exactly what they might say under oath on the stand when confronted with that tape? We know that he SA has used investigative subpoena's to interview DC under oath. But because JB never added him to the defense witness list they didn't get to sit in. And until or unless the SA requests transcripts of those interviews they will not be released under the Sunshine Laws. It's obvious that there is something very hinky and disturbing about their story. Enough so that it prompted HHJS to file a bar complaint.

My suspicions are the chain of information goes something like this. Somehow DC heard a fairly detailed accounting of how and where the childs body was disposed of in the course of interacting with JB and KC (yeah there will be some rather colorful debates here about privilege and work product and whether DC was a valid and protected employee. I still say no as he was an agent of the defendant and not the defense). He also had some sort of strange relationship with CA. At some point in November he finally spilled what he knew to Cindy. At which point she immediately dispatched him out with his poking stick to go find the remains. This is something that JB did not want. he wanted those remains to stay unknown and undiscovered. Hence his instructions when he found out about it to tell no one but him.

Personally I can't wait to see the look on HHJP's face as he sits there vibrating rapidly in his chair while they attempt to explain that they were looking there and only there because that's where the psychic told them to look.

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1eypXuLsh5uatd0yhKQPIBl3_qCYIw5K-bc0q2jEVkHo&hl=en
STATE WITNESS LIST

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1SJuT6ZnZa_DMbH7rK5QXMFWMCG9xV7KVoIjLLRZfg_E&hl=en
DEFENSE WITNESS LIST

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t1IKoWtQFXbILJ9pVMwT-c0dXhXOtFw-u5N2jfvVJM0/edit?hl=en
DEFENSE PENALTY PHASE WITNESS LIST

Both Dominic and Hoover are on the STATE Witness List (neither is on the Defense Witness List). Hoover was deposed by the Defense April 2, 2009. Dominic has not been deposed by the Defense.

Dominic Casey - Anthony private investigator - added March 23, 2009 to State Witness List

James Hoover - P.I. - added March 23, 2009 to State Witness List [Defense depo April 2, 2009]

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I updated my last post --- and one day soon maybe I will add more dates to this - but I think DC and others whom 'players' might have tapped were sent there for a reason - to find the remains.
My guess is that if *wink* someone who has initials like the capital found remains - it might have been obvious they were scattered and not an easy pick up of a bag kinda thing and thus, drew the line and said, "no can do!"

Here is a link to my doc - if it helps anyone. https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AQgG3NFxiyWqZGhoemtzeHJfMGdia2hxbWYz&hl=en

 

[Leila]

That also leaves me at a loss ~

IF DC had found her at this time, it would have been only her skull, just as Roy Kronk had found, along with the laundry hamper, possibly the blanket.

The rest of Caylee was long gone and scattered by November, just as they were 2 and a half weeks later.

But, why would he not have removed the ultility bag and her skull at that time?
The rest of her remains would have been left in those woods, and, even if had someone come along at a later time and even IF they noticed them, chances are, they would have thought they were normal animal bones.
Her little clothes were ratty and tattered, and would have soon enough have been gone even further.

I wonder if DC found her also, and he wouldn't "do the deed", and was going to leave "that" to the Anthony's ~
And, the Anthony's hadn't drawn straws yet, or, didn't know what they would do with Caylee once they had her?
Where would they have hidden her skull?
I know there are probably lots of possibilities, but, once you have a skull in your hand, it may just make you really rethink your options and increase your paranioia.
It would me anyway.

We all saw the number of LE working at the remains site for days sifting through dirt to find every little bone.

It would have been nearly impossible for someone like DC or the Anthonys, who aren't trained in forensic recovery, to find and remove every trace of the remains.

If DC did find the remains, he may have been reluctant to go any further without specific instructions, or he may have refused to dispose of the remains.

At that point, it became a matter of crossing the line from legal to illegal, and for DC or anyone to remove the remains from that site and dispose of them would make them an accessory to the murder.

DC may have reported his find to Cindy and George, but they hadn't come up with a plan yet to dispose of the evidence, or anyone willing to do it.

Then Roy Kronk came along and discovered the remains and it was out of the Anthony's hands.

George and Cindy came home from their interview with Larry King in Los Angeles, and learned during the flight home that Caylee's remains had been found. George and Cindy didn't rush to the remains site upon returning to Orlando, shocked that Caylee had been found. Instead, they checked into the local hotel (as their house was being searched by LE) and dined on crab puffs that night with a large group of people, including a representative from ABC.

Their actions suggest that the news that Caylee had been found didn't come as a shock, but rather that now everyone knew what they had known for some time.

 

[Leila]

Agreed, in fact..I believe when Cindy sent that Bear for her to get "vibes" off of..it included a note on where caylee is. MOO

ITA! I think Ginette Lucas was used as a middle person, so that the "source" would be a psychic and not Cindy Anthony. Cindy knew she was guilty of withholding information from LE, and sought to give herself a cover.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Well when I was collecting info on this for my possible daisy chain chart -- I have 8/08/08 DC visits KC in jail for first time!
08/08/08
DC / KC
DC speaks with KC for first time at jail

09/12/08
KC / DC
DC signs contract with Casey

10/01/08
DC / JB
DC released JB from contract

Oct 7th, 2008
Casey A. wants to search for Caylee without public knowing details
http://www.wftv.com/news/17634763/detail.html

Oct. 10th, 2008
TES considering another search for Caylee, Tim M. in Orlando discussing possible search with authorities
http://www.wftv.com/news/17689999/detail.html

Oct. 14th, 2008
Casey indicted and arrested on Murder charges
http://www.wftv.com/news/17705500/detail.html

Oct. 18th, 2008
Caylee Search to resume on Nov 7th
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17754036/detail.html

Oct. 31st, 2008
Cindy tells media that she doesn't believe Caylee is "out there in the woods".
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17855547/detail.html

Mid Oct. - 1st week in Nov.
DC / G&C
DC signs contract with G&C – GA testifies 1st week of November – give or take 2 weeks. Cindy testifies has had verbal prior to this contract.

Nov 7th, 2008
5,000 possible in search for Caylee
http://www.wftv.com/news/17931491/detail.html

Nov. 8th, 2008
TES first day of search

Nov. 13, 2008
Leonard Padillas divers find bag of small bones...later determined to not be significant.

Nov. 15th, 2008
Anthonys Greet Volunteers, Ask For Funds At Kid Finders Event
http://www.wftv.com/news/17982607/detail.html

11/15/08
DC / J. Hoover
Go on first search at Suburban Dr.-Video is shot and date stamped and search abandoned house.“Meet -N-Greet KFN “ DC Tells Jim H. "we are going to get Caylee".
None

11/16/08
DC / J. Hoover
Go on second search
None

11/20/08
Nejame
Resigns as G&C attorney

Nov. 21st, 2008
A group, The Help Find Caylee Search Team, released a photo of a child that looks like it could be Caylee at the Florida Mall.
GROUP RELEASES "CAYLEE SIGHTING" PHOTO
http://www.wftv.com/news/18032990/detail.html

Nov. 21st, 2008
George and Cindy press conference, with Michelle B. Cindy looks out of it.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAW35NVmKNk&feature=related[/ame]

Nov. 21, 2008
Anthony family release photo of child at Fl. Mall to channel 13 news


Dec. 10, 2008
Cindy and George appear on Larry King in California
"It's come up for nothing. There is nothing they have found that has given them any evidence that Caylee is no longer with us," said Cindy.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18251770/detail.html

Dec 11th, 2008
Caylee's remains found in woods off of Suburban Dr.

Dec. 29, 2008 (news broke about PI searching Suburban area)
P.I. Says He Videotaped Area Where Caylee Was Later Found
The defense's spokesman said they don't want their former private eye to divulge privileged conversations they might have had about where Caylee's remains might be.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18377039/detail.html

Dec. 29th, 2008
Lee A. retains an attorney

Dec. 30, 2008
Attorney Advising Anthonys Says Lee May Be Charged
"There is some concern that some activities that Lee may have been involved with during the investigation might have been seen to law enforcement to be misleading," said Luka
http://www.wftv.com/news/18380933/detail.html

Jan. 7th, 2009
James Hoover talks to his attorney, WFTV and Homicide Investigators about tape
P.I. Says Partner Knew Where Caylee Anthony's Body Was
http://www.wftv.com/news/18432677/detail.html

Jan 7th, 2009
Anthonys' Attorney Meets With Prosecutors, Investigators
Conway also told Eyewitness News that he's been trying to get immunity for the George and Cindy Anthony.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18430243/detail.html

Jan 14, 2009
P.I. Who Searched Remains Site Says Caller Was A Psychic
http://www.wftv.com/news/18476789/detail.html


Hi, A News Junkie, thank you for the timeline. As I saw your post I remembered that I had one saved from long ago. I was interested in all of the related events that happened in such a short period of time. I included some things from my time line, in red, with your post. Hope this is ok.

 

[steadychick]

On Dec. 29 news broke about the PI's search in the woods. On Dec. 29 Lee retains an attorney and is looking for immunity. On Jan. 7 Conway states he has been trying to get immunity for G and C. Golly, sure looks like somebody knew something

 

[A_News_Junkie]

Nov. 21st, 2008
A group, The Help Find Caylee Search Team, released a photo of a child that looks like it could be Caylee at the Florida Mall.
GROUP RELEASES "CAYLEE SIGHTING" PHOTO
http://www.wftv.com/news/18032990/detail.html

Nov. 21st, 2008
George and Cindy press conference, with Michelle B. Cindy looks out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAW35NVmKNk&feature=related

Nov. 21, 2008
Anthony family release photo of child at Fl. Mall to channel 13 news


Dec. 10, 2008
Cindy and George appear on Larry King in California
"It's come up for nothing. There is nothing they have found that has given them any evidence that Caylee is no longer with us," said Cindy.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18251770/detail.html

Dec 11th, 2008
Caylee's remains found in woods off of Suburban Dr.

Dec. 29, 2008 (news broke about PI searching Suburban area)
P.I. Says He Videotaped Area Where Caylee Was Later Found
The defense's spokesman said they don't want their former private eye to divulge privileged conversations they might have had about where Caylee's remains might be.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18377039/detail.html

Dec. 29th, 2008
Lee A. retains an attorney

Dec. 30, 2008
Attorney Advising Anthonys Says Lee May Be Charged
"There is some concern that some activities that Lee may have been involved with during the investigation might have been seen to law enforcement to be misleading," said Luka
http://www.wftv.com/news/18380933/detail.html

Jan. 7th, 2009
James Hoover talks to his attorney, WFTV and Homicide Investigators about tape
P.I. Says Partner Knew Where Caylee Anthony's Body Was
http://www.wftv.com/news/18432677/detail.html

Jan 7th, 2009
Anthonys' Attorney Meets With Prosecutors, Investigators
Conway also told Eyewitness News that he's been trying to get immunity for the George and Cindy Anthony.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18430243/detail.html

Jan 14, 2009
P.I. Who Searched Remains Site Says Caller Was A Psychic
http://www.wftv.com/news/18476789/detail.html


Hi, A News Junkie, thank you for the timeline. As I saw your post I remembered that I had one saved from long ago. I was interested in all of the related events that happened in such a short period of time. I included some things from my time line, in red, with your post. Hope this is ok.

ABSOLUTELY - and I am coping your post so if I do an undated version (including even more 'events' !) and will have dates and links to back up the doc!
The timeline of what happened, changed, and who entered and exited sure makes my instinct feel the information of where Caylee was disposed of was known by at least one family member. JMHO, etc.

 

[beach]

On Dec. 29 news broke about the PI's search in the woods. On Dec. 29 Lee retains an attorney and is looking for immunity. On Jan. 7 Conway states he has been trying to get immunity for G and C. Golly, sure looks like somebody knew something

I agree. Considering the tight timeline, I have always had the feeling that this was all connected.

 

[LolaMoon08]

:furious:

On Dec. 29 news broke about the PI's search in the woods. On Dec. 29 Lee retains an attorney and is looking for immunity. On Jan. 7 Conway states he has been trying to get immunity for G and C. Golly, sure looks like somebody knew something

Yet, they all continued to LIE in their State depositions... unbelievable!

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I agree. Considering the tight timeline, I have always had the feeling that this was all connected.

2+2=....murderous mother. Every time!

 

[Psmith]

Thanks to all for bringing this interesting information back to the forefront.

I was absolutely chilled to look at the DCasey search video again; even after all this time has passed, the effect has not lessened.

LolaMoon08, thank you very much for the list of time markers in the vid and a focus on specific materials such as pavers and fabric. That is very useful information and I've bookmarked your post as a "keeper."

Many have raised several interesting points about why DCasey did not do anything further (if he did indeed find the remains, which I tend to believe). All of them sound plausible. And yes, it is very interesting that the video seems cut/redacted....

One thing that crossed my mind as I was reading ANewsJunkie's timeline post was this claim by Todd Macaluso:

"There is substantial evidence that we've found ... that the body or remains of Caylee Anthony was placed there after Casey Anthony was locked up," said Todd Macaluso, a defense attorney. "It proves that somebody else placed the remains in the area."

Macaluso did not disclose the evidence.

"The body, or the remains of Caylee Anthony were placed there after Casey Anthony was locked up in the Orange County Correctional Facility," Macaluso said.

"Substantial evidence" sounds like "material evidence" to me. And yet Baez was (is) still following the TES search angle:

In a 23-page motion, defense attorney Jose Baez writes that in the weeks after Caylee went missing, numerous people had been in the wooded area, but no one found her body. Therefore, the defense said the body must not have been there until after Anthony was already in jail.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/20489614/detail.html

I am getting mixed signals/conflicting info here and really going out on a limb with some speculation. But here goes: Information from DCasey may have been crucial to two key Defense alternative narratives.

Story 1. The remains were there. But, with some fudging and "creative imagining," the timeline could be muddled so as to exculpate their client. Perhaps Macaluso was working this angle? Again, a huge speculation on my part.

or, possibly:

Story 2. The remains were not there. DCasey, agreeable chap that he is, could insist that he did not find anything at all. Perhaps Baez was working on this angle, which could possibly be buttressed by what he deems to be an insufficiency on TES's part.

There are some tantalizing loose ends, though, as others have pointed out upthread. State has listed DCasey as a witness (what a story he might tell!). Defense has not deposed DCasey. The latter is very interesting indeed. jmo

This Macaluso stuff has me really stymied. Of course, he could have been just spinning his theories (like me lol). But "substantial evidence"? Just thinking aloud, as it were. Carry on!

Now, back to DCasey....

 

[denjet]

But if DC actually located the remains in November, why were they still there in December? Would he not have removed them?

In other words, if we think DC was sent out to find the remains and he DID find them - then what? Just leave them there for anyone else to find? That doesn't make sense.

I questioned this too ... although I'm sure DC found something that confirmed Caylee was there ... some bones .. clothing ... blanket, etc. I'm finding it hard to believe he found the death shroud and saw the skull with duct tape on it and just left it there ... I think probably the shroud itself was underwater in November when DC went looking ... otherwise, IMO, the A's never would have left that kind of evidence just laying there for someone else to find ... JMO

 

[Psmith]

On Dec. 29 news broke about the PI's search in the woods. On Dec. 29 Lee retains an attorney and is looking for immunity. On Jan. 7 Conway states he has been trying to get immunity for G and C. Golly, sure looks like somebody knew something.

:furious:

Yet, they all continued to LIE in their State depositions... unbelievable!

It really does!

I wish there were some way for State to bring this material into the murder trial. I suppose they already have all they need for a Murder 1 conviction. But it would be wonderful if the premeditation aspect could be further supported by testimony from DCasey about his source and reasons for a November search of the Suburban Drive site.