2009.10.09 Document Release

[sleutherontheside]

Quick question - I don't know if this was discussed anywhere else, but there were many pieces of plastic found at the crime scene. Do we know what this plastic is, whether it was all from one larger piece that had come apart in the elements, etc. Was it soft plastic (like part of a bag) or hard plastic?

I was going to start a thread, but wanted to be sure it hadn't been discussed previously.

Starts on page 683 http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html

I don't know if there is a specific thread for the plastic pieces, but I recall that there was discussion somewhere about plastic pieces being parts of the trash bags?

 

[john's mom]

Quick question - I don't know if this was discussed anywhere else, but there were many pieces of plastic found at the crime scene. Do we know what this plastic is, whether it was all from one larger piece that had come apart in the elements, etc. Was it soft plastic (like part of a bag) or hard plastic?

I was going to start a thread, but wanted to be sure it hadn't been discussed previously.

Starts on page 683 http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html

That's a good question.........I assumed that most of them were soft plastic, like a piece of a garbage bag. When looking at the photos, (not from today's dump, but prior ones) most of the pieces I saw were bits of bags, so that'd be my guess.

I'm feeling so sad tonight after seeing that duct tape and poor Caylee's shirt, and her shorts.

Oh, about the possible impression of a barette in the tape, one of the pics I saw in today's dump was a spring type clip, where both sides are exactly the same, with a spring in the middle. When I first saw the picture, I thought it was a vertibra. That really freaked me out, until I realised what it was.

 

[Lil'E]

This looks like an outline of a barrette to me...my daughter has some with hearts on them near the top.

I am new here, please forgive me if this has already been mentioned. Everyone here moves so fast I can't keep up...:blushing:

It sure does look like a barrette! It has to be that or possibly an open saftey pin.

Also in the doc dump on page 682 there is mention of both a hair clip (Q98) and a sticker. (Q100.1)

Again mentioned on page 695 Q98-Hair clip (J60055, Item 1, Q200) says...
"item is a heart shaped plastic hair clip, ~1" long; soiled and damaged."

 

[Ripley007]

You're right as usual, Mac, but I cannot pity her because I know that she would unhesitatingly cast the blame onto someone else--anyone else--who she knows is innocent so that she could escape this "hell of her own making" and put someone else's mother in it instead.

We MUST remember, as adults, we are responsible for our own choices. Blaming our disfuctional mothers, or fathers, just doesn't cut it. LOTS of peeps have been raised by bad parents. Some react by hurting their own children, some react by going the opposite way and spoiling their own children, and yet some others just "do the right thing" and raise their kids "right".
Every adult has CHOICES. And they must be held accountable for those choices.

I'm sure CA has LOTS to regret about her raising of KC. But even if she beat her with a belt daily, that was NO EXCUSSE for KC to kill her own child. KC HAD choices. SHE chose the wrong path. If CA feels some guilt, well, good, some is probably well deservered, but she is NOT responsible for Caylee's death. No matter how horrible of a parent to KC she might have been. KC CHOSE death for Caylee and KC is the responsible party.

(As a CA "hater" this was hard to write)

AS always...JMHO

 

[dilbert]

That theory suggests that the murderer wanted someone to read the phrase. Nobody could ever read it if the remains were never found. Her body was not buried, nor was there any determined effort to conceal or place at great distance. Look how close the body was to the house. Not even buried. Just laid there next to a path inside a bright white laundry bag. Anyone would think that this place would be one of the first areas searched for her body. The person placing it there must have realized it would be found very soon after any organized search was started. Circumstances produced something else (not officially found until Dec), but the person dropping off the body there could not have anticipated that, could they?

Is the theory that Casey wanted Caylee's body found and wanted everyone to know what the words on her shirt read as?

yep, i think she did. remember her saying, "they haven't even found her clothes!" ? i now think that's what she meant by that.

 

[Valhall]

OMG...for some reason this one has bothered me the most. The "mama" doll that Caylee took every where...now I understand why she called it her mama doll. It talked and would say "Tell me a story, mommy".

 

[QB.]

Has the mention of 'grave wax' been discussed? Pg. 580 towards the bottom is the mention of death or grave wax on hairs that were found.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html

 

[petchie]

Has the mention of 'grave wax' been discussed? Pg. 580 towards the bottom is the mention of death or grave wax on hairs that were found.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html

had to look up grave wax. [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere[/ame]

The transformation of fats into adipocere occurs best in the absence of oxygen in a cold and humid environment, such as in wet ground or mud at the bottom of a lake or a sealed casket, and it can occur with both embalmed and untreated bodies. Adipocere formation begins within a month of death, and in the absence of air it can persist for centuries.[3] An exposed, infested body or a body in a warm environment is unlikely to form deposits of adipocere.

Corpses of women, infants and overweight persons are particularly prone to adipocere transformation because they contain more body fat.[1] In forensic science, the utility of adipocere formation to estimate the postmortem interval is limited because the speed of the process is temperature-dependent. It is speeded up by warmth, but temperature extremes impede it.

 

[momtective]

Wouldn't any impression, image, or residue of a heart shaped sticker on the duct tape look like this?

 

[countzero]

Wouldn't any impression, image, or residue of a heart shaped sticker on the duct tape look like this?

Wow momtective. What a great reference point to compare against the tape photos just released. Thanks.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Wow momtective. What a great reference point to compare against the tape photos just released. Thanks.

This picture was actually released in an earlier doc dump. Could someone please tell me if it came from Caylee's shirt? Or what we think it is from? TIA

 

[celticthyme]

hope this works
ETA: these seem to be the same size to me

 

[JBean]

Has the mention of 'grave wax' been discussed? Pg. 580 towards the bottom is the mention of death or grave wax on hairs that were found.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html

had to look up grave wax. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere

The transformation of fats into adipocere occurs best in the absence of oxygen in a cold and humid environment, such as in wet ground or mud at the bottom of a lake or a sealed casket, and it can occur with both embalmed and untreated bodies. Adipocere formation begins within a month of death, and in the absence of air it can persist for centuries.[3] An exposed, infested body or a body in a warm environment is unlikely to form deposits of adipocere.

Corpses of women, infants and overweight persons are particularly prone to adipocere transformation because they contain more body fat.[1] In forensic science, the utility of adipocere formation to estimate the postmortem interval is limited because the speed of the process is temperature-dependent. It is speeded up by warmth, but temperature extremes impede it.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4234738#post4234738"]In the trunk 2.6 days - Page 12 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Harmony 2]

hope this works
ETA: these seem to be the same size to me

My :twocents:

The duct tape is 2" wide. The outline in the photo on the left, in your attachments, appears to cover about half of the width so it would approximate one inch. The raised sticker on the right is a little over half an inch on the ruler, about the size of a dime (I measured a real dime). So in my opinion they do not appear to be the same size.

Note: The docs stated that the heart shaped residue was approximately the size of a dime so if there ever was a sticker on the duct tape I think it was similar to the raised sticker.

 

[celticthyme]

My :twocents:

The duct tape is 2" wide. The outline in the photo on the left, in your attachments, appears to cover about half of the width so it would approximate one inch. The raised sticker on the right is a little over half an inch on the ruler, about the size of a dime (I measured a real dime). So in my opinion they do not appear to be the same size.

Note: The docs stated that the heart shaped residue was approximately the size of a dime so if there ever was a sticker on the duct tape I think it was similar to the raised sticker.

Thanks for that, ( I misread the size of the puffy heart)
I'm wondering about there being more than one heart sticker? Haven't dug deep enough for that, but was wondering if the outline on the duct tape could have come from a PAPER heart, from those stickers that we saw from the house? If so, it may not have survived the elements . . just thinking

 

[celticthyme]

Does anyone know if the "Inflatable Bed" that is referred to on PAGE 8 was found in the Trunk of Casey's car or the Anthony home?

Cindy claims that the 'Bed" was in Zenaida's home at sometime & the FBI tested it for any trace of the "Phantom Nanny"

I find the fact that there was an "Inflatable Bed" very interesting

Was Casey driving around with this Bed in her trunk & if so ...Why?

I have no idea where the link for this is, but Cindy pointed out the inflatable bed 9 which was in a closet in the house) saying that Casey kept it in her trunk at times. My guess is that with the vagabond lifestyle she led, sleeping with several guys at once, & overnights all over the place, she might have had it for Caylee to sleep on. I know we brought sleeping bags/ inflatable mattresses when visiting friends/ reles with our kids.

 

[aafromaa]

That is the FBI, Wouldn't LE have photographed it before sending to FBI?

Again, I find myself playing catch-up in reading these threads so my apologies if someone has already pointed this out as I'm only reading on page 10 of this thread at the moment and it currently has 15 pages. But I wanted to mention this while I was reading this post so I didn't forget about it if I got to the end and no one had addressed it.

reeseeva,

You are correct that the FBI said they attempted to photograph the heart shaped residue image on the tape before the fingerprinting process destroyed it but that it didn't show up in the photo. However, if there were any other photos taken before it went to the FBI it would likely have been by Dr G or staff at the medical examiner's office since the tape was provided to the FBI from the ME's office rather than directly from LE. The thing is that it appears the FBI analyst may have been the first to see the residue so if it had been captured by previous photographs, it would have been by accident which seems unlikely since the FBI was trying to do it on purpose and couldn't.

edit/added comment

As I read in the thread someone pointed out that rumors of the heart shaped residue on the tape emerged before evidence would have gone to FBI - if that's correct then I was wrong when I suggested FBI was first to see it. However, I don't recall when the residue was first mentioned and whether or not that was before the FBI got the tape - just wanted to point out the possibility that others have mentioned.

 

[debbie0604]

LA's video visitation (July 25th part 3, 2:45 mark) she flat out tells LA that the tattoo is Caylee related.

http://www.wftv.com/video/18212521/index.html

^thanks to doogiesgirl for posting that in the old tattoo thread a few months ago - bumped the thread in case we need more references.

I guess that was one time she told the truth... the tattoo was Caylee-related...(to her).... Sometimes I think the needle would be too good for her... she should suffer for what she did to that baby.

 

[celticthyme]

I guess that was one time she told the truth... the tattoo was Caylee-related...(to her).... Sometimes I think the needle would be too good for her... she should suffer for what she did to that baby.

I am normally not a vindictive person, nor do I believe in the DP, but in this case, all bets are off and I think duct tape over her mouth & nose, 3 tight strips might do the trick . (. I don't care if it was how Caylee died, it would work for her torturer)

 

[MD MOMMY]

This picture was actually released in an earlier doc dump. Could someone please tell me if it came from Caylee's shirt? Or what we think it is from? TIA

Going way back in my memory...this sticker was found at the crime scene on a peice of cardboard or paper..pretty sure.