2010.04.02 *SPECIFIC* Caylee's Position Inside Bags

[Solace]

View attachment 14240

In JWG's pic you can see an extended foot at the bottom. I think that is the leg she was laying on. The bent knee is on top which would also be the imprint on the bag. I think we are seeing the top side of the bag. The side of the bag we don't see would have the stain and extended foot.

I agree with you - and thanks for figuring that out

 

[Mendara]

Isn't it bizarre that she drove around with her in the trunk. Comes off as a total monster. No wonder Cindy has a hard time admitting the truth. One really has to be "detached" to drive around with your baby daughter in the trunk of your car. Seriously!

I remember GA saying that when he ran into her at the house and he confronted her about the GAS cans and she was trying to keep him away from the car, but he got a glimpse of it anyway and saw clothes and garbage in the trunk, but when he was asked if the car had an odor he said NO.

My initial thought was that yes, Caylee was in the trunk but to disconnect from the body and put it out of her mine and keep in concealed from her own view, she dumped clothes and garbage in there on top of Caylee and I have always had this terrible feeling that GA may have saw/smelled something but decided not to reveal this to anyone.

Maybe it was part of his Grand Jury testimony? MO

 

[pip]

Isn't it bizarre that she drove around with her in the trunk. Comes off as a total monster. No wonder Cindy has a hard time admitting the truth. One really has to be "detached" to drive around with your baby daughter in the trunk of your car. Seriously!

Totally bizarre. I seriously think she developed a PTSD only after killing her child. I think she just could not deal with her decomposing body in the trunk and avoided the task until she just had to do something. I think this is why she was waking up at night with nightmares at TL's.

 

[pip]

I remember GA saying that when he ran into her at the house and he confronted her about the GAS cans and she was trying to keep him away from the car, but he got a glimpse of it anyway and saw clothes and garbage in the trunk, but when he was asked if the car had an odor he said NO.

My initial thought was that yes, Caylee was in the trunk but to disconnect from the body and put it out of her mine and keep in concealed from her own view, she dumped clothes and garbage in there on top of Caylee and I have always had this terrible feeling that GA may have saw/smelled something but decided not to reveal this to anyone.

Maybe it was part of his Grand Jury testimony? MO

I know the science says otherwise, but I too believe she was still in the trunk that day.

 

[LambChop]

I know the science says otherwise, but I too believe she was still in the trunk that day.

Given the fact that Caylee was in the trunk, the fact that it was June and the temperature in Florida is in the 90's, plus the incident with the gas cans was on the 24th, I would think KC would have needed more than a shovel to get the remains out from the trunk of her car after 2.6 days. The scientific evidence estimates 2.6 days and look at the stain in the trunk. Imagine what it would have been after 8 days. I think the experts were right on this one. jmo

 

[Nana46]

I keep telling folks around me daily that there is a level of evil in this world that is mounting daily....an evil we just cannot grasp. I never felt this way until I discovered this case. Horrific. I don't know how any of that family can sleep at night.IMO

 

[Mendara]

Given the fact that Caylee was in the trunk, the fact that it was June and the temperature in Florida is in the 90's, plus the incident with the gas cans was on the 24th, I would think KC would have needed more than a shovel to get the remains out from the trunk of her car after 2.6 days. The scientific evidence estimates 2.6 days and look at the stain in the trunk. Imagine what it would have been after 8 days. I think the experts were right on this one. jmo

See I always read the 2.6 days as "atleast 2.6 days" not an actual factual 2.6days. I read it so it meant she was in the trunk for no less than 2.6 days. I hope this is explained in court - because I believe KC drove around with Caylee for more that 2 days. I think she was in there with lots of clothes - bags, garbage.

When was the text to Annie about removing the dead squirrels plastered uner her car?

 

[pip]

See I always read the 2.6 days as "atleast 2.6 days" not an actual factual 2.6days. I read it so it meant she was in the trunk for no less than 2.6 days. I hope this is explained in court - because I believe KC drove around with Caylee for more that 2 days. I think she was in there with lots of clothes - bags, garbage.

When was the text to Annie about removing the dead squirrels plastered uner her car?

I agree. I just don't believe 2.6 days would account for the long lasting horrific odor, the stain (even after having been cleaned by CA), the amount of adipocere found, the flies and eggs and the other circumstantial clues such as the gas can incident where she guards access to the trunk, the text about removing the plastered dead squirrel being much later. I think she left her there at least a week.

 

[Ms.Heather]

See I always read the 2.6 days as "atleast 2.6 days" not an actual factual 2.6days. I read it so it meant she was in the trunk for no less than 2.6 days. I hope this is explained in court - because I believe KC drove around with Caylee for more that 2 days. I think she was in there with lots of clothes - bags, garbage.

When was the text to Annie about removing the dead squirrels plastered uner her car?

June 27th. The same day she left the car at Amscot.

 

[MissJames]

See I always read the 2.6 days as "atleast 2.6 days" not an actual factual 2.6days. I read it so it meant she was in the trunk for no less than 2.6 days. I hope this is explained in court - because I believe KC drove around with Caylee for more that 2 days. I think she was in there with lots of clothes - bags, garbage.

When was the text to Annie about removing the dead squirrels plastered uner her car?

Since there are different phases of decomp,with things found at each phase,I took it to mean she was in there AT day 2.6. Probably in there the entire 2.6 days,but not BEYOND day 2.6 ,or other elements would be found.

I have zero expertise ,so acknowledge I can be very wrong.That was just how I read it.

 

[MissJames]

I keep telling folks around me daily that there is a level of evil in this world that is mounting daily....an evil we just cannot grasp. I never felt this way until I discovered this case. Horrific. I don't know how any of that family can sleep at night.IMO

It seems every night there is a new,equally horrific case for JVM or Nancy Grace to explore.

 

[pip]

Since there are different phases of decomp,with things found at each phase,I took it to mean she was in there AT day 2.6. Probably in there the entire 2.6 days,but not BEYOND day 2.6 ,or other elements would be found.

I have zero expertise ,so acknowledge I can be very wrong.That was just how I read it.

I read all the reports when they were released, but I still am left with the strong belief/feeling it was longer.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Florida summers can be extreme. This happened to me the other day and other Floridian's can back me up on this. When I walked out of my house... the heat/humidity took my breath away. I literally had to catch my breath. That is what the heat/humidity does to you... and it is only March/April.

In June... we see a lot more humidity... a lot more severe thunderstorms (like we've had this week). It really is an incredible thing to see (I love storms). The heat can be unbearable! When you get into your car... you roll down your windows because you can not breathe and it takes a while for the air conditioner to kick in. If you happen to leave a coin on your seat and sit on it... you will be left with a pretty nasty burn. When you get in your car in Florida... after it has sat for just a short time... the temp. can be as high as 200 degrees.

I think 2.6 days is a good estimate on how long Caylee was in that trunk and the evidence that was left behind. I think had she been left in that trunk any longer... there would have been evidence of later stages of decomposition. I think Caylee was thrown out into the woods off Suburban Drive June 18th-19th.

MOO

 

[LambChop]

I agree. I just don't believe 2.6 days would account for the long lasting horrific odor, the stain (even after having been cleaned by CA), the amount of adipocere found, the flies and eggs and the other circumstantial clues such as the gas can incident where she guards access to the trunk, the text about removing the plastered dead squirrel being much later. I think she left her there at least a week.

The body goes through stages during decomposition and I believe there is a thread where this was discussed before but one week in the hot Florida sun would have caused the body to bloat and the purging fluids would have been everywhere not just in that small area of the trunk. My guess with temps in the trunk being close to 120 to 130 degrees, KC's trunk would have been leaking fluids in less than a week. That small stain is not really that small when you view the pictures of it but it does appear to be, as the experts have testified to, 2.6 days. jmo

 

[logicalgirl]

Given the fact that Caylee was in the trunk, the fact that it was June and the temperature in Florida is in the 90's, plus the incident with the gas cans was on the 24th, I would think KC would have needed more than a shovel to get the remains out from the trunk of her car after 2.6 days. The scientific evidence estimates 2.6 days and look at the stain in the trunk. Imagine what it would have been after 8 days. I think the experts were right on this one. jmo

It is surprising that George says he did not smell anything. Because I have been reading the debate of whether or not Caylee was in the trunk or not on the 24th, - and the smell - it didn't matter from a smell point of view anyhow, because even after ICA tossed Caylee like a bag of rubbish, the smell of decomp stayed and got worse until she dumped the car.

 

[LambChop]

Florida summers can be extreme. This happened to me the other day and other Floridian's can back me up on this. When I walked out of my house... the heat/humidity took my breath away. I literally had to catch my breath. That is what the heat/humidity does to you... and it is only March/April.

In June... we see a lot more humidity... a lot more severe thunderstorms (like we've had this week). It really is an incredible thing to see (I love storms). The heat can be unbearable! When you get into your car... you roll down your windows because you can not breathe and it takes a while for the air conditioner to kick in. If you happen to leave a coin on your seat and sit on it... you will be left with a pretty nasty burn. When you get in your car in Florida... after it has sat for just a short time... the temp. can be as high as 200 degrees.

I think 2.6 days is a good estimate on how long Caylee was in that trunk and the evidence that was left behind. I think had she been left in that trunk any longer... there would have been evidence of later stages of decomposition. I think Caylee was thrown out into the woods off Suburban Drive June 18th-19th.

MOO

Also some experts are stating that in the Florida heat in June her body might be completely skeltonized within a week. It's just nature's way of disposing of something that is no longer useful to support life. The heat just speeds it up.

 

[Tulessa]

The body goes through stages during decomposition and I believe there is a thread where this was discussed before but one week in the hot Florida sun would have caused the body to bloat and the purging fluids would have been everywhere not just in that small area of the trunk. My guess with temps in the trunk being close to 120 to 130 degrees, KC's trunk would have been leaking fluids in less than a week. That small stain is not really that small when you view the pictures of it but it does appear to be, as the experts have testified to, 2.6 days. jmo

Exactly. We have discussed this over and over. People lie, evidence don't.

 

[LambChop]

It is surprising that George says he did not smell anything. Because I have been reading the debate of whether or not Caylee was in the trunk or not on the 24th, - and the smell - it didn't matter from a smell point of view anyhow, because even after ICA tossed Caylee like a bag of rubbish, the smell of decomp stayed and got worse until she dumped the car.

In TL's deposition they asked him if he could smell anything on the 23rd when KC ran out of gas. He said all he could smell was gas. KC was not waiting for him at the car she was walking away from the car. Was KC riding around in the car with the cap off the gas can to cover the smell and that is why she did not put them back in the shed when she was done? Could that explain the taped cover on the can that GA said he did not put there?

Also parking the car next to the dumpster was an attempt to explain the smell if someone were to walk past the car. Dad had the cans and that may be why she wanted Amy to go with her to get another gas can. When she found out she would be driving TL to the airport the car could wait in her mind. Then the car was gone and she probably figured CA or GA picked it up and just were not saying anything to her about it and she was hoping GA would be cleaning up that little mess for her because that is what he does. She may have driven past the house while she had the Jeep to check and see if the car was there. jmo

 

[Mendara]

June 27th. The same day she left the car at Amscot.

Makes sense - Gas can incident on June 24th - almost caught by her father and then she decides to get rid of Caylee, she does this - but even with removing Caylee on the 24th - the smell is still overwhelming the car by the 27th and so she solves this proble by getting rid of the car altogether.

Text to was to make it official. MO

 

[pip]

I reread the report, again, from Oakridge re: the 2.6 days.

http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/ORNL-report-prepared-for-OCSO-0322.pdf

It summarizes on page 8 that the error estimation for Sodium is quite high in early stages of decomposition. It also states that although these findings are still preliminary and must be confirmed with standards, it is still consistent with that of a decompositional event occurring in the trunk.

I never understood, per reading the report, that 2.6 days was a definitive conclusion, but only a preliminary assessment as explained in the report. I suspect locking into 2.6 days as definitive is a misnomer. It certainly leaves room for potential variations.

I understand that the body would purge more after a week, but she was also within 2 plastic bags, and wrapped in a baby blanket. How much would be in the trunk liner vs. retained in the bags and blanket? We don't know the answer. Was it 2.6 days of being unbagged in the trunk which caused the decomp fluid to create the stain before she was bagged? Perhaps after bagging her, NO decomp fluid leaked out of the bags. We don't know that either. I just think there are unknown variables here that could possibly create different results.