2010.04.09 Appearance of Suburban Drive

[whiteangora]

I was annoyed by the introduction to the video, well over 2 minutes before it even started.

 

[Just Jayla]

Yes I watched that video. I am not sure why he went into the woods on the other end of suburban other than to mislead people about the steepness of the grade. He showed water several times on the way to the site, but once to his opinion of the site location, there was no water. He was totally confused as to where Rk entered the woods. I noted the spot he pointed out that he said was the location of the skull, you could see clearly from the street. I appreciate his effort to give us a view of the current crime scene, but I really wish he would have stuck to the facts and not film a complete different location to find water and grade steepness. MOO

Hmmmm, I dunno if we watched the same video, me and you....I don't think he was at the other end of Suburban at all, it seemed to me he started at about the place where LE originally entered the woods (before erecting the tent). Also, there was definately water at the actual place where the remains were, but it was back about 10-15 feet from the start of the brush line. At the time that Caylee's body was there, you could not see in from the street, there were vines and bushy things everywhere, MD noted that it looked like the area had been cleaned up and was very open.
MD is not an anti-KC bomb thrower, from what I understand he takes some flack for defending the A's and KC when he deems it appropriate...so I do not think he is trying to dupe anybody-He lives in the area and has been able to tape that site on a few occasions for all to make their own decision-If he says it was thicker or more bare at any given time, I take his word for it, short of me actually traveling down to see for myself.
ETA-I am sure there are older pics of that area that will show whether or not the vines were cleared out around the bent tree, all we have to do is look for it....

ETA Pic Link:
http://marinadedave.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/44078348.jpg

The bent tree is to the left of center in this picture-As you can see, in front of the tree there are several bushes and vines (the cleared area under the tent was made by LE), so I don't believe you could have seen in from the street. From the state's narrative, page 14.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/12/01/forensic.entemology.pdf

 

[Sailor Bug]

bbm.
When you say "this blog" are you talking about Websleuths?
What date was that posted? TIA

The comment was in Dave's blog. The comment is dated today's date.
Lona1 // April 10, 2010 at 12:14 pm



It certainly would be good news if correct.

 

[LambChop]

The comment was in Dave's blog. The comment is dated today's date.
Lona1 // April 10, 2010 at 12:14 pm



It certainly would be good news if correct.

I just love your LADYBUG. :lamb:

 

[TrY]

I watched the MD videoclip and I appreciate that someone local would take the time to show the area around Suburban Drive as it looks today. I don't live in Orlando, I don't live in Florida, I don't live in the U.S. anymore and one of the limitations of photos and videos is that it's a 2 dimensional medium so depth perception in a lot of the crime scene photos is skewed to me. It's obvious from looking at the MD video that there's a big drop off from the road in some places, and that the land on Suburban Drive is basically a ravine. That's hard to capture in a lot of the still photos and media videoclips.

 

[CentralFLMama]

So funny. I just drove by yesterday and noted that there is standing water, and we havent really had all that much rain.

 

[Cher352]

So funny. I just drove by yesterday and noted that there is standing water, and we havent really had all that much rain.

Yes, winters are normally very dry here and we have had a wetter winter than usual but nothing like the rains we get in the summer and especially with tropical storms moving in.

I am amazed too that there is that much greenery there now. I live in Central FL and everything in my yard was mostly froze down to ground level this year and only now have buds coming out. This much now just goes to show how thick and lust the vegetation here gets, it will be ten times thicker in just a couple of months.

 

[Cher352]

And to make it more interesting, quote KC "I left her with ZFG between 9 and 1."

F. (first name sounds similar to Fernandez) Gonzales @ 4701 Hopespring
Zenaida A. @ 4709 Hopespring

Sorry that is no coinky dink. Nope, never get me to believe it. jmo

Remember those dicussions too...way too strange!!!

 

[sunsetbeach]

Yes I watched that video. I am not sure why he went into the woods on the other end of suburban other than to mislead people about the steepness of the grade. He showed water several times on the way to the site, but once to his opinion of the site location, there was no water. He was totally confused as to where Rk entered the woods. I noted the spot he pointed out that he said was the location of the skull, you could see clearly from the street. I appreciate his effort to give us a view of the current crime scene, but I really wish he would have stuck to the facts and not film a complete different location to find water and grade steepness. MOO

BBM

Just because you can clearly see from the street NOW does not mean that you could clearly see from the street then. Do you not remember that LE removed most of the vegatation in that area?

Here are some pictures from when the body was found. Note the DENSE overgrowth ... http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18311441/detail.html

Sometimes I wonder if you just come here to ... oh nevermind.

 

[sunsetbeach]

The comment was in Dave's blog. The comment is dated today's date.
Lona1 // April 10, 2010 at 12:14 pm



It certainly would be good news if correct.

MD posted a reply about Cindy to Lona1 ...

Marinade Dave // April 10, 2010 at 12:22 pm

That has definitely been tossed about for some time now, Lona1. It is my understanding that you are right. What will come out of it is anyone’s guess, but yes, she is being targeted to some degree.

 

[Spangle]

While watching the News today, about finding the little girl Nadia, they showed clips of the searchers walking through woods. Wish you guys could see those clips. In areas that would seem 'wide open' at waist high, A tree here and there, the floor was covered with palmento plants and other plants. THICK. In areas between those plants, they were standing in water. If they were looking for a dead body, they wouldn't have found her.

That little girl was found, standing in that water. Her feet where water logged. The only way they found her, was because she was alive.

It was mentioned that we had a wet winter, and that in some areas of those woods, the water was 6ft deep.

I know this sounds off topic. But not really. When we were looking for Caylee, the areas to be searched was like this. Some high grounds, some low grounds. Some areas where the water was extra deep. Ground cover thick. All sorts of types.

Just looking at the video, and thinking about Caylee, It is very easy to understand what Tim was talking about. Searchers would have walked right on Caylee, pushing her bones under the dirt. Not a chance they would have found her. Tim talked about that being a possiblity with the ATV tires as well as searchers.

 

[seagull65]

Thanks Marinade Dave. But for viewers who have not been to the site or who are new to the case, be aware that the deep area Dave shows across from the school is not the spot where Caylee was found. You can see the site where Caylee's remains were found a little ways down the road around the 7:20-7:30 mark in the video. Yes, it was near the street, in a much shallower/more level area than the area shown at the beginning of the video. There is only a gentle slope away from the road. The water depth in the area where Caylee's skull and most of her remains were found, according to Dr. Jawitz's water level study (see resources / official documents) was up to 6 inches of water at its highest time, which was during a couple weeks in August '08 IIRC.) There was the usual leafy, viny ground cover and the curtains of vines hanging down, etc. She wasn't far into the treeline. So yes, foliage on the ground and hanging vines, and for a short time up to 6 inches of water on the ground around her, but not far into the foliage and not in a deep area with more than 6 inches of standing water at any time IIRC.
Thanks for the video

 

[ZsaZsa]

Thanks Marinade Dave. But for viewers who have not been to the site or who are new to the case, be aware that the deep area Dave shows across from the school is not the spot where Caylee was found. You can see the site where Caylee's remains were found a little ways down the road around the 7:20-7:30 mark in the video. Yes, it was near the street, in a much shallower/more level area than the area shown at the beginning of the video. There is only a gentle slope away from the road. The water depth in the area where Caylee's skull and most of her remains were found, according to Dr. Jawitz's water level study (see resources / official documents) was up to 6 inches of water at its highest time, which was during a couple weeks in August '08 IIRC.) There was the usual leafy, viny ground cover and the curtains of vines hanging down, etc. She wasn't far into the treeline. So yes, foliage on the ground and hanging vines, and for a short time up to 6 inches of water on the ground around her, but not far into the foliage and not in a deep area with more than 6 inches of standing water at any time IIRC.
Thanks for the video

Was Dr Jawitz at the scene at that time, or basing it on local water tables?
Tim Miller was there and lost an ATV under water... under WAY more than six inches I think.
I think if you read Valhall's analysis of his report you will see the errors he made.
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2009/12/23/analyzing-the-analysis-the-waterlevel-report/
Plus there's nothing like a real live eye witness ( or several) at the time mentioned.

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks Marinade Dave. But for viewers who have not been to the site or who are new to the case, be aware that the deep area Dave shows across from the school is not the spot where Caylee was found. You can see the site where Caylee's remains were found a little ways down the road around the 7:20-7:30 mark in the video. Yes, it was near the street, in a much shallower/more level area than the area shown at the beginning of the video. There is only a gentle slope away from the road. The water depth in the area where Caylee's skull and most of her remains were found, according to Dr. Jawitz's water level study (see resources / official documents) was up to 6 inches of water at its highest time, which was during a couple weeks in August '08 IIRC.) There was the usual leafy, viny ground cover and the curtains of vines hanging down, etc. She wasn't far into the treeline. So yes, foliage on the ground and hanging vines, and for a short time up to 6 inches of water on the ground around her, but not far into the foliage and not in a deep area with more than 6 inches of standing water at any time IIRC.
Thanks for the video

Unfortunately Dr. Jawitz's water calculations were done by averaging the rainfall over a number of prior years, so his results are not accurate for that year but a median figure for a number of them. I believe you will hear the SA ask him to amend those stats.

 

[seagull65]

Also fallen trees and branches on the ground. She was placed near a fallen tree. The person who deposited her remains didn't go far into difficult terrain, they just went a short distance inside the treeline/hanging vines etc, and that's where her remains were placed next to a log. But yes, this kind of terrain can be all bumpy with roots, vines, shrub palmetto type plants, fallen logs, some areas with water, etc. Thanks to all the searchers who searched everywhere in Orlando through all kinds of terrain.
And those divers who went into the Econ River.

p.s. I think maybe DC's (private investigator's) videos give an idea what the area looked like, don't they (I'm trying to remember), if anyone wants to see what the foliage and terrain was like before it was cleared IIRC. But Dave's video is interesting because you can see the walk along Suburban from the school down toward Hopespring to the remains site, the lay of the whole area, etc

 

[LambChop]

Unfortunately Dr. Jawitz's water calculations were done by averaging the rainfall over a number of prior years, so his results are not accurate for that year but a median figure for a number of them. I believe you will hear the SA ask him to amend those stats.

Plus all the eye witnesses, except for JW, have confirmed there was more water than normal because of Fay in that area. The obvious conclusion would be if that water was not there she could have been found sooner. Oh wait....she was, Officer Cain just was not interested. JMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

Also fallen trees and branches on the ground. She was placed near a fallen tree. The person who deposited her remains didn't go far into difficult terrain, they just went a short distance inside the treeline/hanging vines etc, and that's where her remains were placed next to a log. But yes, this kind of terrain can be all bumpy with roots, vines, shrub palmetto type plants, fallen logs, some areas with water, etc. Thanks to all the searchers who searched everywhere in Orlando through all kinds of terrain.
And those divers who went into the Econ River.

p.s. I think maybe DC's (private investigator's) videos give an idea what the area looked like, don't they (I'm trying to remember), if anyone wants to see what the foliage and terrain was like before it was cleared IIRC. But Dave's video is interesting because you can see the walk along Suburban from the school down toward Hopespring to the remains site, the lay of the whole area, etc

Dave identifies the tree that Caylee was placed against in his video and it is still upright. All those areas were underwater at the time of Tim Miller's aborted search. Tim rates the decision to call off the search as one of the best he has ever made- if they had all gone through there no telling what damage would have been done to Caylee's remains and all the evidence..

 

[seagull65]

Sorry Logical Girl and Zsa Zsa, I hadn't read your posts while I was writing my second post. I was only talking about the spot where Caylee's remains were found of course, not the spot where Tim Miller's ATV went into deep water and so on. I'm not discussing issues related to why searches were called off or any of that, that's not the topic of this thread.

I don't have any expertise to challenge Dr. Jawitz's report, I thought I remembered him addressing the water level post hurricane, both at Remains area A and at deeper areas nearby, but I will wait til trial to see how he explains the water levels. His report of the water not being higher than 6 inches at remains area A sounded reasonable to me having seen the ground at the site. Again, I'm not a water expert like he is, so I'll see how the facts are presented at trial.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Sorry Logical Girl and Zsa Zsa, I hadn't read your posts while I was writing my second post. I was only talking about the spot where Caylee's remains were found of course, not the spot where Tim Miller's ATV went into deep water and so on. I'm not discussing issues related to why searches were called off or any of that, that's not the topic of this thread.

I don't have any expertise to challenge Dr. Jawitz's report, I thought I remembered him addressing the water level post hurricane, both at Remains area A and at deeper areas nearby, but I will wait til trial to see how he explains the water levels. His report of the water not being higher than 6 inches at remains area A sounded reasonable to me having seen the ground at the site. Again, I'm not a water expert like he is, so I'll see how the facts are presented at trial.

Where Caylee was found is exactly where Tim Miller is referring to- I watched him on TV the night her remains were found and he was SO glad he did not take his people through there- Caylee's remains were underwater so there is no way they would have seen them and most likely would have trampled them down into the mud or completely destroyed them. He knows the site very well, he studied it and planned it out on a grid before approaching the area. They don't just arrive and walk through, they have it precisely mapped first. He KNEW the coordinates. Can't wait for him to testify..

 

[strawberry]

The mattress comment was quite funny. I have my moments of being one who "tries to defend KC"....and even I laughed. I have a feeling it would be fun to have Marinade Dave over for dinnner. He cares about Caylee...and is he not mean spirited in any way. Maybe we'd marinade something.

I laughed out loud at that too.