2010.05.10 - Casey Anthony Motions Hearing

[Aedrys]

in regard to mockingbird i thought i heard jose mention black people in balcony - omg- is he doing a racial division on casey case?

And why in the h-e-double hockey sticks would he point out anything racial in front of JP?!?!?!?!? Like that was supposed to make JP feel better or something? Or was Baez trying to get on JP's good side because they're both minorities? WTF? I was totally baffled by that! Talk about ASKING for it!

Baez, put the minority card AWAY. It is not going to win you anything, and if you haven't noticed, your client is most certainly NOT a minority - she's MIDDLE CLASS WHITE for crying out loud! Bringing in the racial card only makes you and her look WORSE!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I thought the TES motion(s) were supposed to be brought up again today. Was I mixed up (again) or were they just overlooked?

 

[Mamabear1963]

When JB was talking about To Kill a Mockingbird...I thought he was choking up and was going to cry (has he been taking lessons from AL?)

 

[beach]

Real life intervened and I missed the live hearing...just finished watching it, so mucho thanks to those who linked! :blowkiss:

Baez: we want, this, this, and this.
Ashton: dude, that's not discoverable. what in ***** are you on?
JP: go back to law school, mr baez, then rewrite your motion and get back to me.
Baez: k

Funniest post in this whole thread!

Sad thing is, I don't know that it would be so funny, if wasn't so spot on true.

 

[Intermezzo]

Defense wants jury sequestered as well.

Well that's a change from what Baez said at the first hearing with Judge Perry. They must of had a brain storming session and now agree to the jury being sequestered.

Thanks to all who watched and posted.:blowkiss:.I had to go into the office today and missed it...

Woa..26 pages to read before I catch up

 

[nachomama]

in regard to mockingbird i thought i heard jose mention black people in balcony - omg- is he doing a racial division on casey case?

He didn't exactly say black people in the balcony.. but he did say " you had all of the people that were white, sitting on the first level and everyone that supported Tom Robinson on the second level" samo samo as far as I'm concerned
I think he is messing with fire if he tries going with anything racial..

 

[The World According]

in regard to mockingbird i thought i heard jose mention black people in balcony - omg- is he doing a racial division on casey case?

Jose sure is no Gregory Peck! You are right racial divisions from another era have no comparison to this trial. Only Jose would use a scene from a movie as an example rather than case law. I cracked up and rewound to watch that part again!

You just can't make this stuff up.

 

[marspiter]

bold 1
Your right, Strickland said that. It looks like this Judge sees it differently. Is now going to make the defense provide a line by line motion so he can look at it. So, the subject is back on the table and Stricklands ruling is out. This is good for the defense, they now have to do their homework. Nothing wrong with that. The state can't just pick an expert from kookamonga so it will be difficult for the defense. If the defense is not allowed to see how an expert came to his opinion, then I doubt the Judge will let it in.

bold 2
Well I am not sure how that works. First not sure there is any discovery, but if there was, would not be sure if the state would release exculpatory evidence to sunshine. I think the Judge would say, exactly what discovery are you talking about? The defense has no obligation here to prove Soddi, yes they are under the same rules, but not sure what it is that posters are asking for. The state has brought these charges, it is their obligation to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense does not have to give up their strategy. I think it is just wishful thinking. Have not heard any complaints from the SA. The Judge did ask them.

The Tes thing is back on the table again. There is a new motion on that. Apparently they had difficulty from Nm's office, so that will be decided at a later date. I can't wait. I think this Judge will take control of that situation and order the documents to be brought down to the Court house. IMO

Your right, the I want everything is not going to work with this Judge or any other Judge for that matter. I think the I won't give anything will not work either for the SA. I disagree with the idea that Jb does not work hard. I believe the defense is doing the best they can do, and I am seeing a change in the atmosphere. I actually hear Ja calling him JUDGE and Jb calling him Your Honor today.

The defense now has a Judge that is willing to listen and consider the rules of discovery and Kc right to a fair trial while making decisions. IMO

Bold 1: JP has not made a ruling as of yet. He has instructed JB to clarify his motion. And pretty much gave JB a free lesson in law and procedure.

Bold 2: You should read up on the sunshine laws. The SA's office would be required to release the info. It does not matter if its exculpatory or inculpatory evidence. The laws is the same for both. There is no conspiracy on the part of the State to hide evidence.

Bold 3: Posters are wondering where the defenses evidence is. As stated in open court they appearent have evidence of Casey's innocents. So umm where is it? Where are the bench notes, forensics, and other items of evidence that has been analyzed by it's experts?

Bold 4: They are not required to divulge their "strategy" however under the reciprocal discovery in Florida the defense is required by law to follow the same discovery guidelines as the state. I'm sure a link could be provided for you, that or a simple Google search on how reciprocal discovery works.

Bold 5: What difficulty? You mean the fact that JB and Co. never went by there until a week or so ago? Then left as soon as they got their? What specific difficulty did they have? Other then looking through the actual records would be time consuming. The defense basically failed to comply with the courts order (which is not the first time) and is essentially asking for a mulligan on the TES records. In hopes of achieving a better lie (golf reference).

Bold 6: This case has been going for approx 2 years. I would say there is pretty clear evidence that not much has been done in this case by the defense. Look at the JAC hearing as an example. The defense clearly hasn't done 2 yrs and 275k+ (approx) worth of work. (200,000 from abc, 5 from anon donor, 70k from TM, and money from AL/Depaul). This hearing is another example. The judge couldn't rule on the photos because the defense hasn't presented it's evidence so the judge can't make an informed decission as to what photo's may or not be relevant. Also the defense was not able to show what evidence it's missing or even give detailed example of what its needing. Hence why the defense was asked to go back and redo it's motion with specifics. Specifics are hard to know when you haven't done the work hence why JB can't give them imho.

 

[joypath]

Again from a "maybe this will help" point: The defense has the right to the discovery from the state, WHY?....to investigate and evaluate, to duplicate if they so choose the scientific findings, to inquire of other experts (or not so experts!) if contradictory interpretations can be drawn from the findings or to just line the bottom of the bird cage!
And the state has the exact same rights! Nobody gets "blindsided" (except Sandra Bullock!) by an expert witness UNLESS they just don't prepare or don't understand what the heck they're talking about!

For example, Werner Spitz, M.D. should prepare a final report from the 12/24/2008 examination of Caylee, it should be referenced with information from his own histological & toxicological studies (I ASSME he took samples!) and he may or may not compare and contrast it with Dr. Jan's arriving at a conclusion(s). She SHOULD get an advance of trial copy from the SA (and I mean WELL before walking up to the stand, tho that HAS happened to some MEs!!!!!! :angel. Dr. Spitz already has hers AND her bench notes per the LKB request, whereas his may not be an all inclusive package! (okay....time to stop as my bias is showing!).
ANYHOW: We as the public have no idea what discovery/expert reports have been released to the state! (But we DO HAVE Jose's word that many out of state specialists/experts are 50-60% completed!)

 

[notthatsmart]

You don't follow much litigation do you? A judge in one state NEVER has jurisdiction over any entity in another state unless they allow themselves to have jurisdiction over them.

Unless that entity (lab, FBI, etc) released these documents to the state then the state is NOT bound to get them for the defense. It's called reciprocal discovery. Whatever the state has in possession must be turned over to the defense (in accordance with the discovery rules of that state/court/jurisdiction), and many times there are exceptions. As evidenced by the delay of documents pertaining to an ongoing investigation in this case (i.e. the jail letters).

I think you should be more concerned at this juncture the defense hasn't released not a single item of discovery to the State. In FL it's all or none. She has to follow the rules of discovery just as much as the State does, it's the way reciprocal discovery works. At some point the defense is going to have to put up or shut up.

There is nothing nefarious about what the State is doing here. It's how the legal system works. The state, the judge, or the judge's staff are NOT obligated to do JB and company's job.

Preparing for trial and the discovery phase sucks. It requires long hours and really really hard work. If JB and company can't stand the heat in the kitchen and don't like the hard work then they should get out.

Well I will admit I am not a lawyer. lol , but I saw the Judge didn't really agree with the SA on that statement that the court has no Jurisdiction. It doesn't take a Lawyer to figure out what is not fair. If an expert comes to a conclusion, they should give information on how they came to that conclusion, if they don't, its worthless imo. I am sure a Jury will see it the same way if the court does not intervene. The rules of discovery were written for a reason. If Dr Vasss, Dr Haskell, the Fbi do not want to show how they came to their conclusions, then so be it.

We will now get into the item by item debate and it will have to hold strong with scientific reasoning. IMO

Just a question, and I do not know if you are a Lawyer, when you say at some time the defense will have to put up or shut up. What are you talking about? Put up what? And is there knowledge of them not putting up what you are talking about? Is there a motion from the state on this reciprocal discovery? If there is, I wonder if their is a schedule to discuss it in court.

I will keep my concern on the states obligation to prove their case. Moo

 

[beach]

They forgot to notice the OC Jail attorney, so will have to be done at another time.

Ooops! :banghead:

I can excuse something like this as an oversight ONCE, but this is isn't the first time they haven't noticed the correct parties. Especially ridiculous considering it was their motion filed over a week ago and they STILL didn't catch it. You'd think between all those attorneys and their staff, someone would be double-checking the obvious.

Did anyone notice that during the Party Pix discussion, Baez tried to say the the State's theory is that Caylee dies on June 16, so what happened on June 20th has no relevance?????!!!!!

I was like double

This admission blew my mind so much, I watched it 3x to make sure I heard him correctly.


The only other comment I have is my total ...I don't even know the word...

just that, I am sure that even Baez understands 'jurisdiction'. Basic issues regarding jurisdiction is taught in intro courses. Even paralegal intro courses. So, his neglect in filing the correct motions for the Oak Ridge docs (etal ?) in the correct jusidiction before JP can intervene...well, is just more evidence that he wants someone else to do his work for him. Just like his overly broad requests to the SA for discovery. Just like the TES docs he would like neatly organized, indexed and copied. I am speechless if for no other reason than I would think by now this would be embarrassing for him.

 

[Intermezzo]

Baez saying that the animosity against Casey on the streets in Orlando and surrounding area, stirred up by the high saturation and pervasiveness of very negative media spin, was worse than many might know, he says that whenever his client was transported from jail or to hearings or whatever people were actually on street corners with signs that said "baby killer" and stuff like. That it was a complete frenzy.
Judge asking that Baez address his argument regarding South Florida in particular, Baez returning

IMO
He is exagerating.
The day LP bonded her out of jail, yes I could agree about the media FRENZY as she exited the jail and was being led to the vehicles and yes, there were people out along the streets with signs yet I would not label that a frenzy, ...and it was far from a frenzy along the roads every time she was transported somewhere.
The protesting that was happening infront of the A home while she was out on bond was ...perhaps that could be labeled a frenzy

 

[magnolia]

Quick question all on your opinion to this:

When JP said he has some "concerns" regarding the party pictures, does he mean concerned regarding that they shouldn't be allowed in trial, or concerns regarding what Casey was doing while Caylee was missing?

I don't think Judge P. would voice concern if he meant the latter. That would not be appropriate.
I think this was a tactful way of letting the SA know he has concern a couple of the party photos would be highly prejudicial. IMO

 

[notthatsmart]

All BBM.

When has the SA done this? Cite it, please. Also, are you implying Judge Strickand wasn't fair? The bold in red indicates you're implying Strickland wasn't fair, imo If that's what you mean, can you cite examples of that too? I'm interested, and thank you for your time.

Yes, I believe it started with the Evidence garage Csi. Said he threw away his bench notes. I think it is obvious now that the States experts are being difficult hence the new motions required and response required and hearing on such matter.

Yes, I do believe Strickland was unfair and it was obvious to me. But for record, he ruled accordingly. Now we have to go over all these motions and rulings again. That is my opinion. Now the new Judge so far seems to be very fair to the defense and has an opportunity in doing so to get to the whole truth of the matter. I support that. thanks

 

[JSR]

Well I will admit I am not a lawyer. lol , but I saw the Judge didn't really agree with the SA on that statement that the court has no Jurisdiction. It doesn't take a Lawyer to figure out what is not fair. If an expert comes to a conclusion, they should give information on how they came to that conclusion, if they don't, its worthless imo. I am sure a Jury will see it the same way if the court does not intervene. The rules of discovery were written for a reason. If Dr Vasss, Dr Haskell, the Fbi do not want to show how they came to their conclusions, then so be it.

We will now get into the item by item debate and it will have to hold strong with scientific reasoning. IMO

Just a question, and I do not know if you are a Lawyer, when you say at some time the defense will have to put up or shut up. What are you talking about? Put up what? And is there knowledge of them not putting up what you are talking about? Is there a motion from the state on this reciprocal discovery? If there is, I wonder if their is a schedule to discuss it in court.

I will keep my concern on the states obligation to prove their case. Moo

Every expert for the State will complete an "expert report or some variation" of their findings. In that "report" it will detail how findings were made and by what means. Reports are discoverable. So are the communications (both written and verbal) between counsel and the experts. But there are also other items that are NOT discoverable. I believe the Judge and the State has referenced that some of the items the Defense is demanding is out of the scope of what is typically discoverable.

I don't believe for one minute that the State is withholding any information from the Defense. The State is not being unfair.

And what I meant by put up or shut up is that at some point the Defense will have to engage in reciprocal discovery. At some point they will have to stop whining about what they don't have and produce some evidence they intend to use at the trial. Basically everyone is waiting .....

Also I believe the State has already filed multiple motions requesting the Defense comply with Discovery rules. Including but not limited to Witness list, providing that "exculpatory" evidence that proved Casey to be innocent, and just recently I believe they filed a motion requesting that the Defense start producing it's discovery (although on that last part I'm not certain)

 

[Intermezzo]

IMO South FL is like a different county, some parts if you only speak english you will be lost. Large cuban, Hatian, Carribean poplulation there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Florida_metropolitan_area

I agree. OLE!

 

[beach]

OMGoodnesss! :twocents: I just finished watching the videos and the post interview (how charming JB "tried" to be...musta received a lecture from the "ole man" after the other performance Friday!) and am in A W E of His Honor! Now that is a man who can deliver a slap in the face, an upper cut and a "get'er done" 'tude with a smile and a nod! LOVED his mini seminar in the law to JB regarding his laundry list from LKB, too bad JB has no knowledge of what the heck he's requesting, it might make him a better gopher if he UNDERSTOOD (okay being charitable today, remembered) some of the principles within his (oops, LKB's ) motion!:banghead: Really :loser:JB.....you have no idea that there's a difference between an expert witness and a CSI?...oh MY!

BUT for me the most unbelievable piece of "lawyering" (and my sincere apologies to all reputable, worthwhile, intelligent Esquires out there!) was the abysmal :loser:Jose Baez production of "observe my client's worst moments, how hated she is/was/should be (in case you weren't sure!),her disgusting family, observe my (JB's) hatred toward those who tried to help Caylee, and my (JB's) irrational animosity toward TES, MN, OCSO,FBI, even LennyP!".......

:waitasec:WHAT IDIOT EMPHASIZES HIS CLIENT IN SUCH A NEGATIVE MANNER????? and in emotive video, no less, not just within the "flat" transcript! :waitasec:

Again.....O M G !:truce:

LOL Joypath!!


Oh...for pure entertainment you should go back and watch some of the earlier hearings. Actually, this was probably Baez's best performance to date. Seriously. I think the rest of us who have watched evey.single.one religiously are almost immune to the ineptitude now. lol

 

[marspiter]

Well I will admit I am not a lawyer. lol , but I saw the Judge didn't really agree with the SA on that statement that the court has no Jurisdiction. It doesn't take a Lawyer to figure out what is not fair. If an expert comes to a conclusion, they should give information on how they came to that conclusion, if they don't, its worthless imo. I am sure a Jury will see it the same way if the court does not intervene. The rules of discovery were written for a reason. If Dr Vasss, Dr Haskell, the Fbi do not want to show how they came to their conclusions, then so be it.

We will now get into the item by item debate and it will have to hold strong with scientific reasoning. IMO

Just a question, and I do not know if you are a Lawyer, when you say at some time the defense will have to put up or shut up. What are you talking about? Put up what? And is there knowledge of them not putting up what you are talking about? Is there a motion from the state on this reciprocal discovery? If there is, I wonder if their is a schedule to discuss it in court.

I will keep my concern on the states obligation to prove their case. Moo

Actually I believe the SA's office has made comments in court as to the lack of evidence presented by the defense as part of it's obligation in reciprocal discovery. Also the defense failed to meet the deadline for releasing the evidence that proves Casey's innocence as per TM's open court statements. There is also a deadline for discovery. The defense must have all of it's evidence handed over to the SA's office by then or it can't be used in court. I guess technically the SA could wait till the 11th hour before that deadline to give anything to JB. However that's not the professional thing to do that is why the state has handed over much of it's evidence and the defense has handed over what? Oh yeah a witness list.

See if the defense had handed over part of it's evidence many of these topics such as what photos are relevant to the case could already be ruled on. As it is now the court and the SA is guessing at what the defense is going to submit as evidence therefore an informed ruling can not be made. JP does not strike me as a judge willing to make a ruling with out all the facts in front of him.

 

[Turnadot]

Yes, I believe it started with the Evidence garage Csi. Said he threw away his bench notes. I think it is obvious now that the States experts are being difficult hence the new motions required and response required and hearing on such matter.

Yes, I do believe Strickland was unfair and it was obvious to me. But for record, he ruled accordingly. Now we have to go over all these motions and rulings again. That is my opinion. Now the new Judge so far seems to be very fair to the defense and has an opportunity in doing so to get to the whole truth of the matter. I support that. thanks

OK, so no citations; just your personal opinions. I certainly respect your right to hold whichever opinion on the matter you wish. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Intermezzo]

The study done by the defense from July 2008-November 2008 is at this time STALE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LDB rocks!!!!!!!!!

bbm
Love her,