2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[citigirl]

Could it be a stunt to get Terri to come to court? Now put pressure on the attorney?

 

[Calliope]

First of all, I'd want to know if she actually paid a retainer. This guy has been reported to take cases on a no-fee or reduced-fee basis. He certainly doesn't need the work at this point in his career.

I just posted on the attorney thread, but since it can't be debated there I'd like to bring my post here:

Could you explain the reasoning behind this:

Kaine Horman has filed a motion in court this morning, asking a judge to order his estranged wife, Terri Moulton Horman, to disclose the source of the reportedly $350,000 she has paid to retain criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze.

"If Respondent has provided funds to her attorneys for her legal representation and considers them to be marital liability, these funds are marital property and Respondent should be required to pay one-half of these funds to Peitioner to use for his attorney fees and costs," wrote Laura Rackner, Kaine's attorney.

I may be misunderstanding the point here (probably am, LOL).

But what business is it of Kaine's --- particularly in his civil action --- how his estranged wife pays for her criminal attorney? I've seen divorce proceedings where the petitioner asks the respondent to pay legal fees, but this is different. Why would she bring up an attorney not representing Terri in the divorce case?

This sentence has me confused: "If Respondent has provided funds to her attorneys for her legal representation and considers them to be marital liability"

What does that mean ?

This is probably legal (I'm sure it is) but it doesn't feel right to me. IMO this blurs the line between the civil and potential criminal proceedings. Kaine seems to be fishing for information that can be used in the criminal investigation --- looking for a possible accomplice, evidence that Terri had a 'job' on the side, whatever. Is it likely the judge will view it as crossing the line into the criminal proceeding?

I guess the gist of my question here is ... can a judge in a civil action force a person to disclose information that could possibly be used to incriminate them in a criminal proceeding? To my untrained eye, it appears this could be the case here; if so, in your opinion, how should Houze handle this? Can he argue a 5th Amendment privilege, even though this is a civil case?

I am soooo confused lol

What I bolded above is where I have an issue with what's being done here, or rather that's where my concern lies. We all have the right not to be "... compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself ..."

I'm wondering if it could be argued that, although this is a civil case, there is a criminal investigation directly related to this case (after all, the primary reason for the RO was that Kaine believes Terri was involved in whatever happened to Kyron), and therefore any answer to this civil motion would put her possible criminal defense in jeopardy.

Seems this could get very interesting very fast.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Houze's basic retainer fee was said to be $250,000. Based on the intricacies of this case and the amount of time and resources that will be necessary to successfully represent Terri, Mr. Houze probably increased the retainer fee. jmo

 

[Aedrys]

I wonder if we could get a copy of the actual motion? Or do we have to wait until the press requests it and then we could get a copy? I bet the total sum of payments to Houze is on that motion.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Holy carp! $350,000 is alotta money! I thought it was "only" $250,000.

I'm waiting with baited breath to find out where the money came from. *My* paltry little sum of bettin' money is on an entertainment industry deal.

BBM. I'd be more accepting of your scenario than the possibility that Terri might have sold Kyron Perish that thought, BDE!

 

[gliving]

But he does need to know if the expenditure sets him up for any kind of financial obligation.

Agreed. Their house is in his name and she can't touch his retirement. Unless they share a substantial saving account, she can not sign off an any of his assets unless he cosigned.

If her family gives her the gift of an attorney, he can't do anything about it.

 

[gardeness]

Kaine thinks this money is his? Talk about dishonesty--he would know if she had this money. I'm sure he has his suspicions on where the money came from (her parents/family?). This is nothing more than harassment, IMO.

 

[NancyA]

I'm concentrating on the word 'reportedly' in that motion. Seems KH and his attorney don't know for sure. There have been figures bandied about - $250,000 was one - regarding what kind of retainer Mr Houze might require, it's also been speculated he might be working pro bono, but I don't recall seeing anywhere an actual confirmation of either a fixed sum or that he's working for free. Looks to me like KH and his attorney (maybe at the behest of LE?) are on a little fishing expedition as to the source of any such retainer. Just occurs to me that it's not unreasonable to think KH would know if TH's family have assets that would support them being able to guarantor such a large sum and if in his opinion they don't... then they'll be VERY interested to find out who indeed would put up that kind of money and, perhaps more importantly, why.

JMO

 

[LaLaw2000]

A defense attorney who requires this much moolah in advance must not have much faith in his client's story. He is in it for the long run and expects to spend a lot of time and money defending her. Doesn't look good for Terri.

The minute I read the amount of money Terri alledgedly has paid her lawyer, I thought he must be charging her for a capitol murder defense!

I would so like to know where a SAHM could get that amount of money.

No, it doesn't look good for Terri and hasn't for some time. I wish she would just tell where Kyron is.

:sick:

 

[Charlie09]

eh, More nasty details. Really some of this stuff needs to stay between them.

I don't think she's capable of keeping quiet. I think she probably repeated it to someone they both know....

And as of right now they are still married, and he actually does have the right to know where that much money came from (did she have access to a lot of funds when she allegedly sought to have him killed?)

As long as Kyron is missing we'll hear the dirty details.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

With the mention of "considers it marital liability" I would bet he knows or suspects that she borrowed the money and is concerned that he'll be on the hook for it since they're not divorced yet. No way would I want to pay lawyers to defend my soon-to-be ex-wife against charges she tried to murder me. Not to mention the other matter.

 

[Emeralgem]

I'm kind of wondering that myself. Is that part of information that has to be disclosed between attorneys? I'm sure someone's monitoring her bank accounts. Maybe there was a huge deposit and then a huge withdrawal and they figured out where it went. Who knows.

But still, 350,000. Egad that is a large amount of money for her to get her hands on at this point, unless she's an heir to a fortune we don't know about.

Since Kaine and his attorney are requesting she reveal the source of the money perhaps they are thinking she received the money in connection to whatever has happened to Kyron..
I don't know... Teh threw me off when she didn't...THUD...:abnormal:JMO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

IF this is correct. IF TH deposited and then withdrew this HUGE SUM of money. IF she then paid it to the atorney. IF this is all accurate and is proven (bank records, retainer document)

THEN

It really looks as if TH might have sold Kyron. Would really like to know the date of the big deposit.

ETA: maybe TH was going to use the money for the MFH on KH. Sounds like this might fit a few of the pieces of the puzzle together nicely - dontcha think?

 

[gitana1]

That's a little steep for a month's worth of lawyering, no?

Sounds like it is a retainer - kind of a down payment for future work.

If her family gave her the money, it's really none of his business.

Kaine wants half of it? Then Terri should ask Kaine to cash out his retirement fund/assets to pay half of her attorney fees. MOO

It is his business. If she came up with that sum, he has the right to know from where. In a divorce, the parties have to disclose all their assets and debts to the other side and coming up with a massive retainer may be a sign to Kaine that TH had a stash of funds hidden somewhere.

I'm kind of wondering that myself. Is that part of information that has to be disclosed between attorneys? I'm sure someone's monitoring her bank accounts. Maybe there was a huge deposit and then a huge withdrawal and they figured out where it went. Who knows.

But still, 350,000. Egad that is a large amount of money for her to get her hands on at this point, unless she's an heir to a fortune we don't know about.

It is info that has to be disclosed - at least in CA. Here, both parties to a divorce have to exchange a Schedule of Assets and Debts and an Income and Expense Declaration. On the I&E, there is a place to write how much the party has paid his or her attorney. But it also asks for the source of those funds. I don't know about Oregon's paperwork. Anyhow, if something seems off kilter to me, I will subpoena records tracing their payment to their attorney. For example, they claim they don't earn much (self-employed), yet I know they paid a lot to their attorney and they claim that was from a loan. I trace to see if they are telling the truth. If they are not, then it may show they are actually earning more than they claim.
However, in this case, I would not think TH is obligated to disclose in divorce paperwork, how much she paid her attorney as part of the criminal case. Nevertheless, perhaps Houze didn't think about that and lumped the fees together as one fee for both civil and criminal? Then the total amount may be stated on a form somewhere. I don't know.

Could it be a stunt to get Terri to come to court? Now put pressure on the attorney?

I do think that the civil legal maneuvering is part of an overall plan to put constant pressure on TH and back her into a corner that leads her to incriminate herself. Hopefully it won't back fire and lead to her suicide before we find out what happened to Kyron. She doesn't seem the type though, to kill herself.

What a mess of a case.

 

[Emma Peel]

Kaine thinks this money is his? Talk about dishonesty--he would know if she had this money. I'm sure he has his suspicions on where the money came from (her parents/family?). This is nothing more than harassment, IMO.

IMO, it's an appropriate disclosure request made under the divorce action. Financial disclosure requests are totally relevant, and are not harassment. When source of funds is determined, gifts from Terri's parents for her defense may be excluded as marital property and determined irrelevant to divorce finances. But if source of funds is something else - such as sale of family photos ... there may be relevance & some standing. :cow:

 

[grandmaj]

I'm of the belief that Kaine thinks Terri sold rights to the Kyron Horman Story.

 

[6angels]

I think the concern is that if she took out a loan since they are still married if she gets thrown in jail he maybe left to pay the loan ( since they are married at the time of the loan.)

 

[Etilema]

I'm kind of wondering that myself. Is that part of information that has to be disclosed between attorneys? I'm sure someone's monitoring her bank accounts. Maybe there was a huge deposit and then a huge withdrawal and they figured out where it went. Who knows.

But still, 350,000. Egad that is a large amount of money for her to get her hands on at this point, unless she's an heir to a fortune we don't know about.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib...11-4f9e-a452-6749cfed4b00/Court_Documents.pdf

Says in that affidavit that she told a third party, in writing, that she had paid that amount.

 

[Barry]

It's an interesting tactic. Part of it may be the LE/DA side may not like the idea of going up against Houze with a circumstantial case. So, it may serve two purposes. One, to find out if the money was obtained in connection with Kyrons disappearance, and secondly, an attempt at separating TH from such a powerful lawyer.

My personal opinion is that the money likely came from her parents retirement, as gwenabob said.

 

[daisy7]

I'm kind of wondering that myself. Is that part of information that has to be disclosed between attorneys? I'm sure someone's monitoring her bank accounts. Maybe there was a huge deposit and then a huge withdrawal and they figured out where it went. Who knows.

But still, 350,000. Egad that is a large amount of money for her to get her hands on at this point, unless she's an heir to a fortune we don't know about.

Just read the court doc... paraphrasing here...

Respondent has indicated in a written statement to a third party that she paid her attorney 350k

Also, says Kaine wants half of this money for HIS attorney fees and that he can't afford to support himself and the kids??

Having trouble copying and pasting from the .pdf. Can someone do a screen shot of of page 6 and post here? TIA!