2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[PaulaF513]

Personally, I don't believe there was a murder for hire plot. I think the landscaper was looking for his 15 minutes, and LE was looking to close a case.

I think there is a lot more to that story than we know and I think it's being kept from the news media because LE just may have jumped the gun with that guy.

 

[Donjeta]

I've posted my theory of why she isn't fighting the RO at this time. It was poo-poo'd by many. Oh well.

Why should she fight the RO now, when there's a snowball's chance in hell she'll win and risk her defense in a probable trial related to Kyron's disappearance where, if found guilty, she'll never have her daughter again? Why not put aside the desire for immediate gratification (which won't happen in any case) and look toward a long-term goal that is more likely to be achieved?

Just wondering... If there is a snowball's chance in hell that she'll be found safe enough to be with her daughter in the RO proceedings, does that mean that Kaine actually has some proof of the MFH plot or her role in Kyron's disappearance and if there is proof, why would she fancy her chances in the criminal trial?

 

[Calliope]

Just wondering... If there is a snowball's chance in hell that she'll be found safe enough to be with her daughter in the RO proceedings, does that mean that Kaine actually has some proof of the MFH plot or her role in Kyron's disappearance and if there is proof, why would she fancy her chances in the criminal trial?

She's not going to get her daughter back until and unless she wins the probable trial related to Kyron's disappearance. Or the grand jury declines to indict her.

 

[For The Kids]

RO's work both ways. This also prevents Kaine from harrassing Terri (although he's sure done a good job during pressers).

She could stop that at any time she chooses. HE just wants his son back. She doesnt appear to want to help in that respect. If she cooperates with the police Im sure Kaine wouldnt feel the need to say things on tv about her.


I cant help thinking if she did miss K all that much..she would know how Kaine and Desiree feel who dont even know where THEIR child is or that matter if hes alive or not. She does at least know where hers is and that she is safe and well
.
I could care less who harasses Terri. Anyone who wont help to find a missing child IMO doesnt deserve sympathy.

 

[Wrinkles]

I disagree with that assesment that she was planning to "kidnap" her own daughter. That is from a gym worker about her questions before the RO was served on her.

Hello Paula,

Nice to meet you!

As for the issue of kidnap... Any wise adult knows that if there is something going on between a man and wife AND if one or the other has the child and puts them in the care of someone while they exercise, the other parent doesn't do sneaky things to try to pick the child up out from under the other parent's care. They make arrangements.

Gym workers have brains, they also have rules to follow. In this case the gym worker KNEW that there was something going on with a child missing AND one of the parents saying, "Give me a call when he is here" (evidently the intimation being that they want to come get their child, but I have to reread.) I'm not sure about others, but that would have sent flags all over the place with me.

RO served or not, there are things that parents do and do not do if they have integrity. Additionally, my guess is that LE may have mentioned "Look, he has been advised to take the baby and leave, we are advising you to stay away from them until you handle this with an attorney." Of course, the latter is a guess...there may or may not be proof of such a mention of LE to TH about such as this.

EDITED: Were you able to [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5493253&postcount=32"]read this post[/ame] from ThoughtFox who looked up some articles about this gym thing? LE was called because TH was inquiring if the child was there and, the person working at the gym felt that something suspicious was going on.

 

[Wrinkles]

Personally, I don't believe there was a murder for hire plot. I think the landscaper was looking for his 15 minutes, and LE was looking to close a case.

Okay Dear Beans,

So IF there was no murder for hire plot AND Terri knew it, then WHY not fight for custody or AT LEAST visitation with baby K -- especially if TH knew that there could also not be probable cause with Kyron?

 

[TxLady2]

My understanding of RO in Mult. County is that it is not in effect until the other party has been served. It will take two links from MSM to establish this, but this headline says it all: BEFORE he obtained RO.

If he had not even obtained an RO, let alone had it served, then Terri did not try and abduct K, she tried to *find* her.

http://theportlander.com/2010/07/13...ughter-just-before-restraining-order-granted/

My thoughts exactly. And if the reasons for getting that RO are found to be unjustified... then it will be dropped.

If this MFH plot had some basis in truth, then why didn't they get an arrest warrant right then? I have always felt that the LS made it up or exaggerated. If LE had the proof that Terri did this, they would not have had to initiate the little "sting" which backfired. They don't have this conversation on tape, and if I were in LE I would want to know if this LS had a little business on the side of "offing" people for money, and if not, why did Terri approach him with the request to kill her husband. Were they more than acquaintances? Was there a little illicit love affair going on at the time?

We don't know that the landscaper hasn't been charged with filing false reports, because we don't know who he is, no name has been released, to my knowledge.

 

[TxLady2]

Yes, the gym owner is on the record saying he got scared when Terri showed up wanting to know if Kaine was busy working out so she could take the baby with her.

And we have to remember that Kaine also knew about the Murder for Hire Plot. So it's pretty obvious to me why she didn't fight the restraining order - not a moral leg to stand on.

It's only logical that with Kyron missing and TH the last parent with him at the time, that someone's hinky meter and red lights would go off. And by the way, it's not legal for a parent to just take a child and flee without consent of another parent - that's still kidnapping. But when Kaine left the house with the baby, he had the restraining order and the court behind him.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24250187/detail.html



http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horma...ied-to-abduct-daughter-from-gym-98346624.html

BBM. Then Kaine was guilty of kidnapping when he took K and left without Terri's consent. He did not have the RO at that time, it wasn't filed until Mon.
There was no immediate danger to him or to the baby. She had made no threats against either one, IMO, and she had not been charged with anything. LE's blessing or not, he took the baby and that's kidnapping.
When she went to the gym, she did not know about the RO. She had every right to take her child home. That's not fleeing.

 

[BeanE]

Okay Dear Beans,

So IF there was no murder for hire plot AND Terri knew it, then WHY not fight for custody or AT LEAST visitation with baby K -- especially if TH knew that there could also not be probable cause with Kyron?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5493019&postcount=12"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Good reasons why Terri did not challenge RO?[/ame]

 

[ThoughtFox]

BBM. Then Kaine was guilty of kidnapping when he took Baby K and left without Terri's consent. He did not have the RO at that time, it wasn't filed until Mon.
There was no immediate danger to him or to the baby. She had made no threats against either one, IMO, and she had not been charged with anything. LE's blessing or not, he took the baby and that's kidnapping.
When she went to the gym, she did not know about the RO. She had every right to take her child home. That's not fleeing.

There were threats made by Terri Horman. We know that because there were two 911 calls made from the Horman house the day Kaine moved out with the baby.

We just don't know what was actually said, I presume because it is part of the ongoing investigation about Kyron.


http://www.komonews.com/news/local/97550009.html

PORTLAND, Ore. - There were not one, but two 911 calls placed from Kyron Horman's home last Saturday night, the Bureau of Emergency Communications confirmed Wednesday.

A log of the calls revealed the first report came in at 5:18 p.m. and lasted 13 minutes. Dispatchers said the caller reported threats made inside the family's home in Multnomah County.

The second 911 call was made from the home at 11:39 p.m., and was recorded by dispatchers as a child custody issue.

The calls came on the same day Kyron's father, Kaine Horman, moved out of the family's home, taking the couple's 18-month-old daughter, K. Horman, with him. The Bureau of Emergency Communications wouldn't disclose the identity of the caller.

 

[debs]

BBM. Then Kaine was guilty of kidnapping when he took Kiara and left without Terri's consent. He did not have the RO at that time, it wasn't filed until Mon.
There was no immediate danger to him or to the baby. She had made no threats against either one, IMO, and she had not been charged with anything. LE's blessing or not, he took the baby and that's kidnapping.
When she went to the gym, she did not know about the RO. She had every right to take her child home. That's not fleeing.

More and more I think Kaine laid the groundwork for the gym to be alarmed by warning them that they should contact police if Terri shows up. I don't know if it would be kidnapping as much as parent alienation. Since there was no restraining order yet in place (having yet to be served) why would the gym be alarmed at the time when a mother comes in to ask if her child is there? Doesn't make sense.

 

[debs]

There were threats made by Terri Horman. We know that because there were two 911 calls made from the Horman house the day Kaine moved out with the baby.

We just don't know what was actually said, I presume because it is part of the ongoing investigation about Kyron.


http://www.komonews.com/news/local/97550009.html

The calls were placed by Terri. Where does it say she made threats? I read that she reported threats.

 

[nosysw]

More and more I think Kaine laid the groundwork for the gym to be alarmed by warning them that they should contact police if Terri shows up. I don't know if it would be kidnapping as much as parent alienation. Since there was no restraining order yet in place (having yet to be served) why would the gym be alarmed at the time when a mother comes in to ask if her child is there? Doesn't make sense.

I thought they had two different gyms. Maybe she was not on record as being the parent because she did not do pickups from there as opposed to her own gym. The girl working there was concerned, maybe because it was something out of the norm, and then asked her boss about it...You can't take chances with a baby so I don't blame them for erring on the side of caution. And if Kaine said something, I don't blame him, I would probably have done the same thing. Who knows if she was planning on taking the baby and fleeing? That would be kidnapping in my understanding as she did not have sole custody of that child...(lawyers knock this down 'cause I don't have legal expertise on this obviously)...If it was not Terry's gym, and then she called asking for a phone call when and if the baby got there (I believe this was the case but again let me know if this is wrong) that would definitely make me concerned and suspicious with everything else going on in the news...I believe the gym properly acted with caution...


ETA: I believe the parent signing the child in should be the one signing them out unless other arrangements are specifically noted by the parent...

 

[ThoughtFox]

More and more I think Kaine laid the groundwork for the gym to be alarmed by warning them that they should contact police if Terri shows up. I don't know if it would be kidnapping as much as parent alienation. Since there was no restraining order yet in place (having yet to be served) why would the gym be alarmed at the time when a mother comes in to ask if her child is there? Doesn't make sense.

The Gym guy told two different media outlets that it was because Kyron was missing, not because of anything Kaine told him.

It was Terri's behavior that set off his warning bell, not Kaine's.

Everyone in town knew that Terri was the last parental with Kyron the day he disappeared. Not hard for me to see why he was alarmed when Terri wanted to take the baby. JMO

Frankly, I think all these players are crazy to be leaving a baby in day care at a gym in the middle of a missing child investigation. I wouldn't be letting that baby out of my sight for any reason, period. But that's just me.

 

[rnmif]

BBM. Kaine's emotional response makes sense to me given what we know of him. He seemed focused on bringing Kyron home, problem-solving and handling the stress by being a "doer" -meet with LE, formulate a strategy, come up with ideas for Kyron's room for his return, etc.

I come from a family of "doers" and have seen this pattern a lot... for instance when recently a family member was diagnosed with a fatal illness, the first thing that happened was two of us dove into researching the illness, one person started cooking meals to stock the freezer for those doing the research, another person started making calls for a second opinion and researching the best doctors in the field, etc. None of us cried at first, or allowed ourselves to break down in favor of "taking care of business". That was how we handled "the problem" of the illness, by sublimating our emotions for the short term to "solve it". Break down later.

Although rnmif, I know you have a personal reason for looking upon Kaine with suspicion and I completely respect your point of view.

I'm the same way, I've said so myself here a time or two.

The think that strikes me is TY is a *detective*. I've got several LEOs in my extended family, including a detective. Granted, TY works in Medford, but you don't get through detective work by being emotionally fragile. This is his step-son, and I get the idea that he loves him deeply, but he has more of a grief-stricken look on his face than KH? For weeks?

I guess it could be TYs grief as much for DY as well as for Kyron....

I don't know what I believe anymore. Just because what I think happened is a little horrifying to think about. I mean the worst I can accuse KH of is thinking with the wrong head maybe.

I don't know. I know MCSO is moving forward on a case, and we will all have more answers soon. I really want to be wrong, because knowing me, if I don't sleep well now, if I saw him.... and he's not alive.... I'm not sure when I'll sleep again. Talk about doing, spent the whole night dreaming about searching for him, and he pops out from some trees. Nice fantasy.

 

[ThoughtFox]

The calls were placed by Terri. Where does it say she made threats? I read that she reported threats.

Where does it say that both calls were made by Terri? Link?

The article I posted says:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/97550009.html

The Bureau of Emergency Communications wouldn't disclose the identity of the caller.

 

[wondering1]

Just wondering... If there is a snowball's chance in hell that she'll be found safe enough to be with her daughter in the RO proceedings, does that mean that Kaine actually has some proof of the MFH plot or her role in Kyron's disappearance and if there is proof, why would she fancy her chances in the criminal trial?

Only because of the higher standard of proof, imo. And maybe the passage of time and the things that go along with that. For example, and just speculation on my part. Suppose that the LS is a citizen of another country or has dual citizenship, or even just strong familial ties to another country, or no ties at all except a common language and relatively easy access (say to Mexico). And he leaves the country sometime pending trial, possibly because he fears a conspiracy charge. Good-bye MFH case. And, as we know, there are other, far less speculative reasons why the mere passage of time makes it somewhat less likely that there will be a conviction in most cases -- especially if no significant additonal evidence is found during that period. jmoo.

 

[wondering1]

Just wanted to address these two points

We do not yet know what the retainer was, if a retainer was paid at all, if there was a contingency in lieu of part of his normal retainer, etc.

We do know that a retainer was paid b/c th's lawyer said that the amount was grossly exaggerated. I suppose $350k could be considered a gross exaggeration of zero, but I think the lawyer would have just said there was no retainer paid, if that were the case

I have said elsewhere, I find it interesting that the divorce attorney filed to delay. Unless someone else is charged, it really won't matter one way or another how the dissolution happens, because TH won't be around to enjoy her daughter or any joint assets.

There is always the chance that TH won't be charged, or will be charged and acquitted -- even if she also happens to be guilty. So the outcome is not dependent on someone else being charged, imo. From her lawyer's perspective, it is best to keep all of the options open, rather than have TH seal her fate by testifying right now in the context of a hearing that requires a lesser burden of proof. jmoo

 

[joshiesmom]

There are a couple posts in this thread that have Baby K's full name written out.

TxLady2, one of them is yours. I'll go back to the previous page to see whose post is the other.

Please edit her full name out because we're not allowed to have it written in full here.

 

[BeanE]

There were threats made by Terri Horman. We know that because there were two 911 calls made from the Horman house the day Kaine moved out with the baby.

We just don't know what was actually said, I presume because it is part of the ongoing investigation about Kyron.


http://www.komonews.com/news/local/97550009.html

Threats made by Terri Horman? Did you read the subsequent articles to this one in which it was explained that the alleged threats were made by the alleged landscaper and that it was the alleged Terri that called 911 allegedly to report the threats against her?

I'll see if I can dig them up in a little bit for you. (I'm eating lunch atm. )

ETA: Here's one:

Last weekend, at 5:17 p.m. June 26, Terri Horman placed a 9-1-1 call, classified as a "threats" call, to Multnomah County dispatchers, and a sheriff's deputy responded.

and another:

This time, he wore a body wire and was accompanied by an undercover officer. On the recorded conversation, he sought $10,000 from her, saying otherwise he would go to police with the murder-for-hire plot, sources said.

Terri Horman apparently cut off the conversation fairly quickly, sources said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_wore_wire_asked_ter.html

one more:

The landscaper showed up at Horman's door June 26 wearing a hidden microphone to demand hush money. Undercover agents were nearby. But the plan backfired when Horman called police to report an emergency, according to KATU, telling the dispatcher a man at her door wanted $10,000.

KATU cited sources as saying that was the second call of the day. The first came minutes earlier to report that someone in a truck was threatening her.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/search-ky...apparent-botched-sting-step/story?id=11114051