2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[stmarysmead]

Here's another reason I think releasing the texts is a genius move!

Let's say your neighbor tells you her husband beats her . She says this over and over...soon the words are repetitive. They become almost bland. Then one day...YOU SEE THE BEATING. You see his fists land, the blood flow, hear her pain. You will never dismiss something again... that you experienced.

We have now EXPERIENCED Teri Horman's "sexting" in the days following her stepson's disappearance.

Never will that word just be bland again.

Up until now, the word "sexting" has been used constantly on this site. It had become almost devoid of meaning as well. NOW, thank to Kaine's genius lawyers...we have experienced it...in the context of the timing of a small child's disappearance..

We picture Kyron...and we then follow Terri's "wet spot" words..her bragging...her complete self-absorption. We think of Kyron's fear and pain...and then we read more of perverted Terri's self-gratification.

Now ...WE GET IT.

I won't abbreviate the words "Murder for Hire" for this same reason. Those are not words to glide by either. Those are words to ruminate over...to consider the enormity of the act she wanted done.

The word "sexting" in regard to Terri...has now been fully revealed in all its repulsiveness. That was a genius move on behalf of Kaine's legal team.

No more Terri hiding behind a flimsy word. No more just gliding past it.

Brilliant!

 

[Kimster]

"Codependency or codependence is a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that negatively impact one's relationships and quality of life. It also often involves putting one's needs at a lower priority than others while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others."<snipped> [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency[/ame]

Been there, done that. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm an adult child of an alcoholic. The codependency traits run deep, though after years and years I can accept my tendencies to want to naturally react in this kind of passive behavior. Thankfully, I have a great team of friends who will stop me now if they see this in me.

When you are a codependent, you don't see the forest for the trees. The codependent is always trying to "fix" things, but oftentimes does not understand the tools needed to resolve the problems. And then in a long term relationship they can even start to believe the lies "oh, the baby is better off with her mother" (no matter what is going on) or "I only had one drink. You're confusing PMS with drinking". An alcoholic will say/do whatever it takes to preserve their drinking. And a codependent can fear that they will sever the ties and take the kids with them.

We are viewing everything in hindsight. I have to wonder if TH had taken baby K and left the relationship, what grounds would KH have to get custody then? Staying in the relationship might have been the only thing he could think of doing to stop TH from drinking and protect baby K.

When there is a crisis, that is often the catalyst to move the codependent into action. This can be where the alcoholic loses their job due to drinking, or has a horrific car accident, or things along that line. In this case, the unimaginable happened - Kyron went missing and no one seems to have seen him after he was in TH's care.

None of KH's behavior surprises me at all due to my own life's experiences. And he is not the one who caused harm to Kyron.

 

[stmarysmead]

There are MANY THAT respectfully YET STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH the entire basis above.. None of us[that have no 1st hand experience and knowledge in this vein of the law] have a clue what a well educated defense lawyer team such as Bunch and Houze will question and STRONGLY DISAGREE that they would be foolish in engaging in such a line of questioning as is given as an example above... and only those that legitimately have 1st hand experience and knowledge could even begin to "guess"[and that is all that can be done is guess, and wildly guess at that] would be an atty with this exact vein of law practiced..

and post after post our verified lawyers have stated that Terri has done irreparable damage to her interests of gaining any parenting time[along with much and many detailed posts speaking in lay terms just what a tangled web that Terri herself has weaved]..

IMO no atty worth his salt would engage in anything even resembling the above.. and am anxious to get gitana1's opinions and comments on this latest doc filed with the courts yesterday..as she has been a treasure trove of knowledge and experience in this exact vein of law and a tremendous asset to all of us here in the Kyron Forum...

Just as an actor's reputation is only as good as his last show...so is an attorneys reputation.... when they become involved in a high profile case. The public has now been privy to the real Terri Horman. We see that she even lies to them. So are these attorneys going to try to destroy a grieving Father to prop up the Terri Horman the public has just finally come to see revealed? Are they going to try to savage the Dad...to reunite a small Baby with the Drunk that LE thinks is responsible for her brother vanishing?

That would not be soon forgotten.

 

[JBean]

please revew your own posts for name calling of anyone. rude adjective's are not ok especially if you use offensive terms from the document.
Please self edit.

this post is placed at random

 

[Kimster]

please revew your own posts for name calling of anyone. rude adjective's are not ok especially if you use offensive terms from the document.
Please self edit.

this post is placed at random

Using TH's text messages as adjectives to describe her or any other players isn't going to fly with me either.

 

[Krisy]

I could see Kaine letting baby K stay up with Terri just to keep the peace.

*I remember walking on egg shells as a child with an alcoholic parent. TRY not to do anything to set them off. NO, we shouldn't have had to change our behavior because of HIS problem, BUT it kept the peace and made things EASIER.
We just wanted Mom to shut it, and leave him alone. He seemed happy as long as nobody set him off. Let him drink and be happy. Don't fight it.

MAYBE Kaine had that mind set too. JMO

 

[grandmaj]

This is not placing blame on Kaine at all, although I do wonder why he would allow such to continue --- he does say it was "common". I'm just showing why I feel Bunch will be able to turn this around against him. That doesn't even go into all the interviews Kaine did when he claimed everything was just fine at home. IMO, that's certainly contradictory but he had no obligation to tell the truth to the media.

I feel Rackner didn't think this through, which I find very odd.

I don't envy this judge, having to wade through all this carp.

I respectfully disagree.

I don't think it will be allowed to go this far at all. In fact I think Rackner will clearly point out that if any of Kaine's statements are untrue that she would love to hear it from Terri on the witness stand and under oath.

She may go so far as to not allow Kaine to be questioned in that Terri refuses to be questioned. Or she may try to call Terri to the stand if Bunch does attempt any such questioning. Terri would plead the 5th and the elephant has just entered the court room. A huge no no to go after the victim of the father of a missing child when Terri is being called a "defacto" suspect by her own legal team.

The last thing Bunch wants is for Kaine to have an opportunity for more information to be garnered during any such speculated questioning. A lawyer would never ask a question unless he knows the answer. And at this point does Bunch have complete trust in his client? The one who was asking MC to lie to her criminal lawyer about her trip to see him? Bunch would have to tread very lightly is my opinion.

In fact I think it is Houze that is questioning at this point how he is going to defend the actions filed in the motion, and those as displayed in the texts. It is a very strong message that Terri is not responsible. She isn't even answerable to her own attorney so how could anyone else control her actions.

Without Terri allowing herself to be questioned I believe this does irreparable damage to her character and ability to pursue this motion for parent time.

And, I would think that Rackner will also have an evaluation by a psychologist on these sexts and what that says about Terri at such a very tender time in the search for Kyron. MOO

 

[gardeness]

I respectfully disagree.

I don't think it will be allowed to go this far at all. In fact I think Rackner will clearly point out that if any of Kaine's statements are untrue that she would love to hear it from Terri on the witness stand and under oath.

She may go so far as to not allow Kaine to be questioned in that Terri refuses to be questioned. Or she may try to call Terri to the stand if Bunch does attempt any such questioning. Terri would plead the 5th and the elephant has just entered the court room. A huge no no to go after the victim of the father of a missing child when Terri is being called a "defacto" suspect by her own legal team.

The last thing Bunch wants is for Kaine to have an opportunity for more information to be garnered during any such speculated questioning. A lawyer would never ask a question unless he knows the answer. And at this point does Bunch have complete trust in his client? The one who was asking MC to lie to her criminal lawyer about her trip to see him? Bunch would have to tread very lightly is my opinion.

In fact I think it is Houze that is questioning at this point how he is going to defend the actions filed in the motion, and those as displayed in the texts. It is a very strong message that Terri is not responsible. She isn't even answerable to her own attorney so how could anyone else control her actions.

Without Terri allowing herself to be questioned I believe this does irreparable damage to her character and ability to pursue this motion for parent time.

And, I would think that Rackner will also have an evaluation by a psychologist on these sexts and what that says about Terri at such a very tender time in the search for Kyron. MOO

IMO, Bunch doesn't need Terri or Kaine to get on the stand, if it even comes to that--there are many interviews to draw from in which Kaine has contradicted himself from what he filed yesterday...moo

 

[desquire]

desquire, I totally get what you're saying, but didn't Kaine say (paraphrasing, without digging for the exact quote) that depending on circumstances he might not object to Terri having supervised visitation? Maybe the primary issue at hand for Kaine/his attorney is not so much keeping Terri from obtaining professionally supervised visitation, but to use the process of obtaining supervised visits as a way to gain information about Terri (tests, observation, etc.)

BBM
I don't think there is any doubt that you are right. I've always thought that was his primary goal. Based on statements Kaine made to the press after the abatement hearing and the statements he made in yesterday's affidavit, he's being pretty transparent about the fact that his main goal is to get Terri to talk about Kyron's disappearance and, if possible, uncover evidence that will aid her prosecution. If I were him, I'd do exactly the same thing.

Kaine is keeping his eye on the big picture in the same way that Terri is. The RO is a temporary thing because it will be superceded by the divorce settlement and the divorce settlement is meaningless if Terri is ultimately convicted in Kyron's disappearance. So Kaine is using the RO and divorce process as best he can to advance the liklihood of that conviction and Terri is trying to manage the RO and divorce proceedings as best she can to preserve her defences in an ultimate criminal case. The problem is that a civil divorce proceeding isn't designed for either of those goals in mind, so neither of them is going to get everything they want out of it.

 

[Kimster]

IMO, Bunch doesn't need Terri or Kaine to get on the stand, if it even comes to that--there are many interviews to draw from in which Kaine has contradicted himself from what he filed yesterday...moo

....that can be explained by stress or not hindering the investigation into Kyron's disappearance or...........I can think of many explanations.

IMO, this isn't going to be the final chapter in the family law court. It's much more complicated.

 

[TxLady2]

"So, Mr. Horman. You state you were present in the home and shared responsibility for caring for the children 5 to 7 days a week?"

"No, I said 3 to 5 days."

"What about weekends? Were you not present on weekends?"

"Oh yeah."

"And further, you state it was "common" for your wife to be visibly impaired from alcohol several nights a week, "passing out" on the couch as early as 7 pm after "drinking heavily". And going back to your prior statement, you specified you were present during the afternoon and evenings. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"You also state that Kiara was up late at night, playing and watching TV during this time, correct?"

"Yes."

"And if you "tried" to put Kiara to bed, your wife became "offended". Correct?"

"Yes."

"What do you consider more important, your daughter's well-being or avoiding offending your wife?"

"Kiara's well-being, of course, but ... "

"And you go on to state here that it was "common" to find Kiara up and awake at 1 am while your wife was 'asleep from alcohol'. 'Common'. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"So you were aware that this child was up and about, alone, in the home?"

[light bulb goes off in Kaine's brain]

"Yes, but ..."

"How old was this child during these occasions you describe, when it was "common" for her to be up and about unsupervised and alone?"

"One, one-and-a-half. But ..."

"Where is your bedroom in the house?"

"Upstairs. But ... "

"So you would go to bed, upstairs, leaving this year old child downstairs and in the care of someone who was "visibly impaired" from alcohol to the point she "passed out", knowing that it was "common" for the child to awaken and be up and about and unsupervised in the middle of the night. Is this correct?"

"Now wait a minute ... "

"Is that correct?"

"Yes. But .. "

"Please tell the court what steps you took to protect this child from such an obvious --- and ongoing --- dangerous situation?"

----

I am confused as to why Rackner thought this document would help her client.

Excellent! This illustrates my point exactly. If this behavior was common for Terri and Kaine was aware of it for months, then why in the heck didn't he do something about it?!
IMO, he is cutting off his own foot. I have to wonder... when did he suddenly wake up and realize Terri was an unfit mother?? Oh, right.... AFTER Kyron disappeared.

 

[ami]

IMO, Bunch doesn't need Terri or Kaine to get on the stand, if it even comes to that--there are many interviews to draw from in which Kaine has contradicted himself from what he filed yesterday...moo

Kaine has gotten progressively more information from LE, from friends and other "witnesses" for lack of a better word, and from the investigation itself. You'd expect his characterization of their family life to change as more information is revealed.

In fact I cannot see how that would go well for Terri if Kaine were asked about the discrepancies between his statements - he'd likely be very eager to explain in great detail about the things he didn't know when making early statements versus the things he later found out that caused his statements to change as time went on.

 

[Calliope]

For the same reasons so many other victims of abusive/alcoholic spouses stay in the marriage and try to find a way to make it work and live within the life they've been handed.

<snipped>

I have seen posted all over this website, and I don't mean by you in particular, sheer fury at parents who stand back and make excuses for and allow their partners to endanger or abuse their children. Who don't put the safety and well-being of their children first, above their adult relationships. Who even witness such abuse and choose to remain and subject their children to further danger. Too many times we've seen where this leads, with either the parent or the child (or both) injured or dead. This (justifiable) anger toward the people who are supposed to protect the little ones from harm is expressed time and again in nearly every case I've read here.

I understand the dynamics of what you're talking about and that it happens far too often. I suspect most kids just grow up to become rather insecure (and co-dependent) adults, ensuring the cycle continues. But some, like Kyron and too many others, don't make it out. That's why, while I do understand what MAY have been going on here with Kaine, I just can't give him a pass on this. He knew this was "common" and yet allowed it to continue and even admits that baby was adversely affected by all that went on in that house.

Regardless of Terri's guilt or innocence in Kyron's disappearance, it's clear from this document that Kaine was aware his daughter (at least) was endangered by her mother's actions and behaviors. It seems he WAS more worried about "offending" Terri than making sure his daughter was safe and secure. I can't get past that point. And if his daughter's safety wasn't high on his list of priorities up to the point Kyron went missing, then why would the judge necessarily believe that to be the case now? That's the argument I see coming out of this (or something similar).

 

[ami]

Excellent! This illustrates my point exactly. If this behavior was common for Terri and Kaine was aware of it for months, then why in the heck didn't he do something about it?!
IMO, he is cutting off his own foot. I have to wonder... when did he suddenly wake up and realize Terri was an unfit mother?? Oh, right.... AFTER Kyron disappeared.

This is exactly what people often ask victims of domestic violence and abuse - if he hit you, why didn't you leave? If he was abusive - why didn't you leave?

Also, how do you know Kaine was not actively doing something about it? Perhaps his working from home was an attempt to be present in case things went wrong, or to keep an eye on Terri, or to be watchful for baby K's safety. Kaine has made statements that he believed their talks about their marriage were starting to change things for the better - that sounds to me like steps were being taken to change things.

Leaving someone with issues is not the only answer. Some people stay and cope, or stay and try to fix things.

 

[grandmaj]

If there are inconsistencies Kaine can provide reasons. I was asked by my attorney not to fully answer certain questions might be one reason. Or investigators advised me not to give full details.

My point it that Kaine has not stated in this motion what remedial actions he took about Terri's drinking. For example were there times he took the car keys away from her? Were there times they argued about her drinking? What did he do after the arguments, did he take the children and leave? When he found baby K running around in the middle of the night did he himself put her to bed?

If Bunch questions him and he doesn't know what those answers are, I think it would be very damaging to Terri's attempts to have visitation time.

I also see her parents as being deposed as well as her friends about her drinking habits. Since Kyron went missing. And I would fully expect J. to be deposed also as a child who was in that home and saw the problems. To explain why he was sent away.

The big question to be asked and answered is was there an argument over the children the night before Kyron went missing. Did something happen on that night which humiliated Terri?

I see this motion by Terri and her team to be a huge mistake in this stage of the investigation. If Terri didn't do these things why can't she say so?

 

[Kimster]

Excellent! This illustrates my point exactly. If this behavior was common for Terri and Kaine was aware of it for months, then why in the heck didn't he do something about it?!
IMO, he is cutting off his own foot. I have to wonder... when did he suddenly wake up and realize Terri was an unfit mother?? Oh, right.... AFTER Kyron disappeared.

Does this mean that any time someone is aware that a child isn't receiving the best of care, those aware of the situation are at fault when a crime is committed? Does this include extended family, teachers, etc? Should everyone with knowledge like this be arrested? I'm not understanding this line of thinking.

I have a lot of friends who are educators and they are aware children are being raised in homes where there is substance abuse. Should they also be held accountable for the crimes being committed by the parents?

 

[Calliope]

Kaine has gotten progressively more information from LE, from friends and other "witnesses" for lack of a better word, and from the investigation itself. You'd expect his characterization of their family life to change as more information is revealed.

In fact I cannot see how that would go well for Terri if Kaine were asked about the discrepancies between his statements - he'd likely be very eager to explain in great detail about the things he didn't know when making early statements versus the things he later found out that caused his statements to change as time went on.

bbm

No, I wouldn't. He says he was present and responsible for her care 5-7 days a week. He says he was present and caring for the kids in the afternoons and evenings, when Terri was visibly intoxicated and passing out by 7pm. He doesn't need LE or friends or neighbors or witnesses to tell him this. He claims he was there and witnessed this himself.

So either his earlier statements to the media were untrue, or this document is. It can't be both ways.

 

[TxLady2]

I could see Kaine letting baby K stay up with Terri just to keep the peace.

*I remember walking on egg shells as a child with an alcoholic parent. TRY not to do anything to set them off. NO, we shouldn't have had to change our behavior because of HIS problem, BUT it kept the peace and made things EASIER.
We just wanted Mom to shut it, and leave him alone. He seemed happy as long as nobody set him off. Let him drink and be happy. Don't fight it.

MAYBE Kaine had that mind set too. JMO

It goes beyond trying to keep peace when living with an alcoholic. I do not place blame on Kaine for Kyron's disappearance, and I have all the sympathy in the world for his predicament right now. What I am questioning is... why he did not take steps to rectify the situation when it was going on. He KNEW and he did nothing to stop it. His baby daughter could have been seriously hurt or died while Terri was alone with her. I'm sure he was required to go to his job occasionally.
We oftentimes come down pretty hard on women who seem to sit back and allow abuse of their children by their SO's. We blame them when something bad happens to the child, and lament about WHY she did not leave him, or WHY she allowed it to happen. This is no different, IMO.

 

[JBean]

Excellent! This illustrates my point exactly. If this behavior was common for Terri and Kaine was aware of it for months, then why in the heck didn't he do something about it?!
IMO, he is cutting off his own foot. I have to wonder... when did he suddenly wake up and realize Terri was an unfit mother?? Oh, right.... AFTER Kyron disappeared.

I would guess there is a lot of guilt that goes along with thinking there was some thing that one coulda shoulda done. Does he bear some responsibility, I am sure he thinks he does and I would have to concur that he does to a degree.

But we are not going to bash kaine on this forum so we need to careful in our discussion as he is the father of a missing child and there is no reason to think he is directly involved in the disappearance.

lets all keep that in mind in our posting.

thanks.

 

[Calliope]

Does this mean that any time someone is aware that a child isn't receiving the best of care, those aware of the situation are at fault when a crime is committed? Does this include extended family, teachers, etc? Should everyone with knowledge like this be arrested? I'm not understanding this line of thinking.

I have a lot of friends who are educators and they are aware children are being raised in homes where there is substance abuse. Should they also be held accountable for the crimes being committed by the parents?

I think a parent who is aware their partner is endangering their child should most certainly take action to ensure the safety of the child. Should he be arrested? No. If CPS had been alerted during this time and it was found that he was present during all of this (as he claims to be) and allowed this to continue on a regular basis --- the part about it being "common" the baby was awake and unsupervised is alarming as hell --- I suspect he would have had to answer for his lack of action.