2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[sofia76]

Which car did Kaine take when he left? The mustang or the truck?

 

[PickieChickie]

Do I understand correctly he is also requesting child support? It seems a moot point, considering the circumstances. Never mind her being a sahm.

You are correct and when the order is granted the support will start from the day he filed!

 

[nanny2five]

OK....so the affair you are talking about was with Kaine's brother but NOT the one who is now serving time? Or is it one of Kaine's brothers but we don't know which one, yes?

Wondering if this is true when Kaine found out about it....

did i miss a link or something? she had an affair with his brother? do we have info on that?

 

[TrialAddict]

Rule 505. Husband-wife privilege
see rule 4 (a)
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/40.255

 

[sofia76]

did i miss a link or something? she had an affair with his brother? do we have info on that?

This is a RUMOR. Nothing has ever been reported of TH having an affair with anyone!!!

 

[nanny2five]

This is a RUMOR. Nothing has ever been reported of TH having an affair with anyone!!!

thank you! i have been at work all day and trying to catch up. i knew i hadn't seen anything like that. i appreciate you answering so quickly
this is not directed at you sofia, and i might get a time out for this, but imo this rumor business is getting nuts! TH is a human being and until we have proof that she committed a crime, imo all the speculation about her is simply mean. maybe she hurt Kyron, maybe she didn't, but just saying anything that comes to mind is not imo sleuthing or honoring Kyron. imo imo imo

 

[jessigirl]

I haven't read ahead and I hope a moderator clarifies this. But just in case, here's my request for clarification.

I am confused because I tend to assume that there are probably children living in any random house I see, both in real life and on the internet.

Same with any church, store, mall, park, etc.

I understand why no pictures of minors who are not the subject of a case. But no pictures of a house on the grounds that a child may someday be inside?

ITA with your thoughts above, GrainneDhu and I believe that the mods do too(since it has been cleared)... IMO I saw no reason for the harsh critique of the picture of the house being posted. The rules clearly state that such is allowed IF it is already being presented thru main stream media(which is quite obvious this was and is the case). So therefore IMO saw no reason to harshly critique someone's posting of the pic and going even further to insinuate the poster was guilty of causing harm to an innocent child and was "over"-sleuthing... We are here for nothing but to help and see justice served for this precious child and its upsetting to see when that is misconstrued into something that just is no where near the truth of this matter...IMO

 

[~greeneyedgirl~]

Did the school call the H home when K was not in the classroom that morning?

Hard to believe they wouldn't have and the whole day passes and he is not on the school bus at 3:45.

The school did not, not until the following Monday after Kyron went missing did they implement a call home policy.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Add to that shudder that Eby was on parole from prison at the time - his gym shoes found at the creek where Riley was found were prison issued with his name on them - ignored
The sexual assault DNA - ignored
Fingerprints on the screen door - ignored
All while most in Illinois and the country were screaming 'death penalty' for Kevin Fox. I'm not sure I'll ever get over this case - makes me want to move out of Illinois.

The videotape of the interrogation of their other child, a six year old boy, was extremely upsetting to me. It was easy to see that the child was getting more and more upset, more and more anxious, more and more worried... and the interrogator just kept ratcheting up the pressure on him.

I don't want to live in a country where it is considered okay to subject six year old children to harsh, coercive interrogations. It's not right and it could do terrible emotional harm to the child, in my opinion.

And it makes me have a seed of doubt for any case that seems to obviously point to one person.

Kevin Fox's post crime behaviour was extensively analysed and judged by many to indicate his guilt. There was nothing the poor guy could do that would seem innocent.

Even though he was completely innocent of anything.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

For what it's worth, a spouse can always testify against the other spouse, but they cannot be compelled to if the state law protects married spouses from having to do so. he did not have to file to testify, in other words.

This is a complex area of law with details varying from state to state, and federal courts having yet another set of rules. The "spousal privilege" concept has two different segments: one relating to spousal testimonial privilege, and the other to marital confidences privileges. As far as I know, the spousal testimonial privilege, taken separately, is such that a spouse can always voluntarily testify against the other spouse. However, at least in some states, an accused spouse can block the the other spouse from being questioned about anything than can be construed to fall under the definition of marital confidences, i.e. private communications that occurred between the spouses. So for example (depending on the specifics of Oregon law), if the prosecution wanted to ask Kaine "Did Terri ever tell you she wanted Kyron to go live with his mother, now that Baby K has been born?" (which presumably they would want to ask because Kaine had already told them she had said this), the defense attorneys could block him from answering or from being asked any further questions about anything Terri ever said privately to Kaine.

Other posters have mentioned that spousal privilege rules are not applicable in cases of the murder or abuse of a child. That's true, but depending on what evidence the prosecution can ultimately dig up, they might not be able to bring such a serious charge against Terri, even if they were pretty sure she actually killed Kyron. This happens an awful lot in criminal law, where somebody that everybody really knows actually committed a murder, ends up being charged with obstruction of justice or evidence tampering, etc, because there simply isn't enough solid evidence to support a conviction for the "real" crime.

I don't know the specifics of Oregon law, but anticipation of Kaine wanting to be free to testify against Terri may well have been a factor in the decision to get the divorce filing done so quickly.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37992992/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Her children? So she can't see the older son either?

Can Kaine apply for a RO for the older son if he's not his adopted or biological parent?

I would think not. But I would also think the judge could choose to add the other child(ren) of the person be subjected to the restraining order. Her son had to be listed on the form (which had a section for listing children of both the person filing the request and the targeted person). If the supporting evidence and allegations were sufficient to convince the judge that it wasn't safe for Terri to have even supervised visitation with her 18 month old daughter, it would only be reasonable to bar her from contact with her other children as well (especially if the supporting information indicated that issues with the older son might have precipitated the events which warranted keeping her away from the baby).

 

[pinkpuddytat]

BBM

A mentally, verbally, and/or physically abusive husband could be responsible for her haggard appearance as well. If we're going to sleuth Terri and pick apart her life and mental health based on glimpse or two into her life, then I think we have to do the same for Kaine. IMHO, he doesn't come off well when delving into his past.

I rather doubt this. As others have pointed, no former wives or girlfriends have come forward to say anything negative about him, and he seems to be on very good terms with Desiree. Also, if she'd been a victim of abuse at Kaine's hands, I'm SURE she and/or someone else would have clued in police on it by now, and if police had any reason to believe anything like that had been happening, they'd have shared what they knew with the judge who ruled on the RO request. NO WAY would the judge have barred Terri from any contact whatsoever with her baby daughter, and given Kaine (for now) exclusive control over the baby, if the judge had the slightest reason to believe Kaine had been abusing Terri. That judge knows a whole lot more than we do, including everything investigators felt he needed to know to rule on the RO, and the RO he issued speaks volumes about the resulting perceptions he has of Kaine and Terri, respectively.

 

[wondering1]

This is a complex area of law with details varying from state to state, and federal courts having yet another set of rules. The "spousal privilege" concept has two different segements: one relating to spousal testimonial privilege, and the other to marital confidences privileges. As far as I know, the spousal testimonial privilege, taken separately, is such that a spouse can always voluntarily testify against the other spouse. However, at least in some states, an accused spouse can block the the other spouse from being questioned about anything than can be construed to fall under the definition of marital confidences, i.e. private communications that occurred between the spouses. So for example (depending on the specifics of Oregon law), if the prosecution wanted to ask Kaine "Did Terri ever tell you she wanted Kyron to go live with his mother, now that Baby K has been born?" (which presumably they would want to ask because Kaine had already told them she had said this), the defense attorneys could block him from answering or from being asked any further questions about anything Terri ever said privately to Kaine.

Other posters have mentioned that spousal privilege rules are not applicable in cases of the murder or abuse of a child. That's true, but depending on what evidence the prosecution can ultimately dig up, they might not be able to bring such a serious charge against Terri, even if they were pretty sure she actually killed Kyron. This happens an awful lot in criminal law, where somebody that everybody really knows actually committed a murder, ends up being charged with obstruction of justice or evidence tampering, etc, because there simply isn't enough solid evidence to support a conviction for the "real" crime.

I don't know the specifics of Oregon law, but anticipation of Kaine wanting to be free to testify against Terri may well have been a factor in the decision to get the divorce filing done so quickly.

haha...I was about to go through that whole spiel, too (which ITA with btw), but someone posted the Oregon law that says the privilege doesn't apply when there is spouse on spouse crime OR a crime by one spouse on the child of either of the couple. Problem solved!!! Thank goodness, b/c it really is a very complex issue otherwise.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

haha...I was about to go through that whole spiel, too (which ITA with btw), but someone posted the Oregon law that says the privilege doesn't apply when there is spouse on spouse crime OR a crime by one spouse on the child of either of the couple. Problem solved!!! Thank goodness, b/c it really is a very complex issue otherwise.

Ummm, did you read the second paragraph of my post that you quoted? She hasn't been charged yet, and we have no idea what charges the prosecutor will ultimately determine can be supported by the available evidence. At this point, they seem to be struggling to come up with enough solid evidence to arrest her for *anything*.

 

[cypress]

I rather doubt this. As others have pointed, no former wives or girlfriends have come forward to say anything negative about him, and he seems to be on very good terms with Desiree. Also, if she'd been a victim of abuse at Kaine's hands, I'm SURE she and/or someone else would have clued in police on it by now, and if police had any reason to believe anything like that had been happening, they'd have shared what they knew with the judge who ruled on the RO request. NO WAY would the judge have barred Terri from any contact whatsoever with her baby daughter, and given Kaine (for now) exclusive control over the baby, if the judge had the slightest reason to believe Kaine had been abusing Terri. That judge knows a whole lot more than we do, including everything investigators felt he needed to know to rule on the RO, and the RO he issued speaks volumes about the resulting perceptions he has of Kaine and Terri, respectively.

Desiree left Kaine when she was eight months pregnant and eventually filed a RO against him -- that is not "normal" behavior nor does it speak to him being a great guy, IMHO.

Just because Desiree and Kaine are putting aside differences to find their lost and probably murdered son doesn't mean they like each other or get along. There are bigger fish to fry at the moment, so to speak. And, I will continued to assert that if Terri turns out to be the bad guy in all this, that doesn't make Kaine the good guy. Something about him bugs me, just as much as something about Terri bugs a lot of other people. He wasn't crying or emotional at the press conference. He went with Terri to the gym. His previous wife left him when she was 8 months pregnant and filed a RO against him. Now we've found out that Terri's son moved out because he was butting heads with Kaine.

IMHO, there's more than one way to be culpable in this situation. Just because Kaine didn't physically harm Kyron, and I don't believe he did, doesn't totally absolve him of responsibility of the events that may have led up to and caused Kyron's disappearance and possible death.

All IMHO, of course.

 

[SuziQ]

Ummm, did you read the second paragraph of my post that you quoted? She hasn't been charged yet, and we have no idea what charges the prosecutor will ultimately determine can be supported by the available evidence. At this point, they seem to be struggling to come up with enough solid evidence to arrest her for *anything*.

I don't see that at all. There are more beneficial reasons for holding off on an arrest than to rush out and make one. The fact an arrest has not been made yet does not mean LE is struggling.

 

[scandi]

I would think not. But I would also think the judge could choose to add the other child(ren) of the person be subjected to the restraining order. Her son had to be listed on the form (which had a section for listing children of both the person filing the request and the targeted person). If the supporting evidence and allegations were sufficient to convince the judge that it wasn't safe for Terri to have even supervised visitation with her 18 month old daughter, it would only be reasonable to bar her from contact with her other children as well (especially if the supporting information indicated that issues with the older son might have precipitated the events which warranted keeping her away from the baby).

I don't know, It seems that the baby being a natal child of Kaine's could be used as a point of leverage to protect herself if he had discovered something that pointed to her guilt in the case.

Like Dan A said either LE told Kaine of something they had learned in the investigation or he had discovered something himself. If he had told her in that argument that she was going down for what he had learned in the disappearance of his own son, maybe she threatened to take the baby away from him.

 

[adh74]

But IF she suffered from severe PPD, would she have been regularly updating her facebook status, playing games on facebook, taking pictures of the kids (who looked happy and content, not neglected due to a mother who was barely able to function due to PPD), volunteering at the elementary school and going to the gym for regular workouts?

I think the reason her pictures look so haunted and terrible is because her son is missing and she is stressed out of her mind. Maybe she's dead-eyed because she knows she is going to be caught and spend her life in prison. Maybe she's totally innocent and is dazed-looking because she's in emotional agony. I don't believe she has PPD, though, since she appears to have been functioning just fine prior to Kyron's disappearance.

As a person with personal and professional experience with PPD, I can tell you that PPD can onset up to one year after birth, and can last for some time after that. And it is also completely possible to "appear" to be completely functional while still having severe PPD. After I had my first daughter, everyone thought I was supermom and had it totally together. But on the inside, I was suicidal and at times homicidal. It took me over 2 years to climb out of that he77 hole.

Professionally, I screen women for PPD frequently as part of my job. And usually, it's quite common for even the spouses to be clueless to their wife's state of mind with PPD.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Has anyone seen any notices in the Personal sections of the local papers stating that KH is no longer responsible for debts incurred by anyone other than himself? I know when I got divorced, the lawyer ran that immediately. Perhaps K knew T was going to get a lawyer and he didn't want to be financially responsible when he knew the marriage was failing anyway plus suspects her of Kyron's disappearance.

 

[DairyGirl]

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20398541,00.html

Kyron's parents Kaine and Desiree Young, along with her husband Tony, are conducting a press conference Thursday morning.