2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[JSR]

Maybe she's watched or read enough crime cases to know those things get taped. ie; her own paranoia because she knew she was attempting a murder-for-hire. To me her cutting off the convo speaks as much to self-guilt as anything else.

Would have been no reason for her to stop the meeting if she were guilt-free in my opinion.

Plus the sting was done in completely bad timing.

Was the sting done before or after Kaine filed for divorce? If it was after then of course she would be on high alert. She would have known why Kaine filed for divorce.

And of course I'm sure LE informed the family they would be looking into all people who had contact with the family (and that would include any workers). So I'm sure Terri would know the jig would eventually be up.

If she did have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance then it wasn't a spur of the moment thing. It was well planned which leads me to believe we're not dealing with a stupid woman. She's smart and knew enough to make sure to not say anything incriminating.

 

[cluciano63]

If the landscaper cut to the chase and said I want $10K to keep quiet about the plot, I would stop the conversation and call the police too. So it really depends on how this all went down. But whatever she did/said, it was not enough to show guilt.

As far as the RO goes, I'm guessing whatever other stuff may be in there besides the murder-for-hire worries, it is the kind of stuff in most family RO's; so if it gets out, it gets out. I just wonder what could keep her from being able to see any of her children. I hope Kaine was not encouraged to add to the RO in any way, with allegations that could do this, if untrue.

 

[Adalena935]

So an UC met with Terri and the lawnman? So the lawnman called the cops months ago? Is that what this means?

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171293/detail.html


Sources said Terri Horman, the landscaper and an undercover officer met, but she shut down the conversation.

I don't see how else an undercover FBI could've been present in a convo with she and the lawnman unless she asked the lawnman some time earlier. The way tv news reported it, that was my interpretation. They reported an UC FBI agent was present. Posing as ..use our imagination. But that's just what I think.

 

[Adalena935]

Plus the sting was done in completely bad timing.

Was the sting done before or after Kaine filed for divorce? If it was after then of course she would be on high alert. She would have known why Kaine filed for divorce.

And of course I'm sure LE informed the family they would be looking into all people who had contact with the family (and that would include any workers). So I'm sure Terri would know the jig would eventually be up.

If she did have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance then it wasn't a spur of the moment thing. It was well planned which leads me to believe we're not dealing with a stupid woman. She's smart and knew enough to make sure to not say anything incriminating.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171293/detail.html

This says upon learning of the allegations the hubby took the baby, moved out, filed for RO & divorce.

Terri wouldn't know the jig was up if the askee kept his/her mouth shut. I would imagine people ask in good faith their diabolical plot will be protected by the person they're asking.

 

[scandi]

I don't see how else an undercover FBI could've been present in a convo with she and the lawnman unless she asked the lawnman some time earlier. The way tv news reported it, that was my interpretation. They reported an UC FBI agent was present. Posing as ..use our imagination. But that's just what I think.

I'm thinking she knew this LS pretty well after all those months and knew he wouldn't ask her for $10,000 to keep quiet. She probably sensed he was acting a bit different and knew something fishy was up ~ IMO

 

[Adalena935]

If the landscaper cut to the chase and said I want $10K to keep quiet about the plot, I would stop the conversation and call the police too. So it really depends on how this all went down. But whatever she did/said, it was not enough to show guilt.

I wonder what reason she'd give to a jury for why she was meeting with the 3rd person & whether they'd believe her or not? The news said she cut the convo short. They didn't say it didn't show guilt. They didn't say anyhting beyond that. Apparently her husband & at least one judge believe them or he wouldn't have moved out, taken the baby dtr, filed for a restraining order against her and filed for divorce. Nor would the judge have granted him full custody and her no vivitation (with or without chaperone or whatever they call those custodians)

As far as the RO goes, I'm guessing whatever other stuff may be in there besides the murder-for-hire worries, it is the kind of stuff in most family RO's; so if it gets out, it gets out. I just wonder what could keep her from being able to see any of her children. I hope Kaine was not encouraged to add to the RO in any way, with allegations that could do this, if untrue.

They call that a witness.

Murder for hire with a witness would keep her from seeing her children I would imagine. To me this is the kind of situation that after gross tragedy strikes people ask; "Why didn't somebody do something?"

Whether any of the news reports are true or not they apparently have a live witness against her for murder for hire; the lawnman. UNLESS there is no TH, no missing child, no anything. which I seriously doubt is the case. I don't think this is a fictional family by any stretch. Would be wonderful if none of it were real.

 

[Herding Cats]

I just don't know where I sit on this...and the picket up my fanny is starting to be quite irritating.

But to be honest, if I were looking at this from a purely legal standpoint, I don't believe there is any evidence other than some guy's statement that there was a murder for hire plot. His claim could easily have been a misinterpretation of what was said, or an outright lie to get some attention from LE, or for some unknown reason to insert himself into the investigation (I just can't ever forget Mark Carr...).

If this is the sole reason behind the RO, the judge pretty much has to not grant it as permanent. The law stands on parental rights, and if there is no valid, legal reason to believe that a MFH plot existed, or was anything more than a rumor, the judge cannot hold the mother and child apart. Just simply cannot. A Solomon's choice to be sure, and I'm glad I don't have to be sitting on the bench making that decision.

I suspect what will happen is a modified RO may be negotiated. For example, 3-6 months' supervised visitation with a mediator picking up the baby and the visitation being in a public, open place), until the divorce gets finalized (and that will be a brutal battle itself). But unless there is compelling evidence (not hearsay) that the baby is in danger, the judge cannot come between a parent and their child.

We have seen, time and again, when a judge returns a child to a situation which we do not agree with. But that's the law, you know? In most cases, it's the law in that state which controls this.

And it's a good thing, too...or, as someone said above, otherwise a whole lot of people would have their rights violated by someone who is pissed off at them, or feeling hurt by them, or just plain bonkers and making an allegation which is not supported by evidence.

Again, this wicked picket up my fanny is uncomfortable, but I suspect if the RO is not modified, it will be dismissed.

Is that the right thing? Yes, under the law. Maybe not, as it pertains to humans and their actions. Totally different things.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[LaLaw2000]

I'm thinking she knew this LS pretty well after all those months and knew he wouldn't ask her for $10,000 to keep quiet. She probably sensed he was acting a bit different and knew something fishy was up ~ IMO

This is what I thought and even posted the other day. The LS may have even made some sort of gesture that made Terri calm up, or even said something that was not what Terri had said to him. It could be any number of things, IMO, but my guess is that he tipped her off in some way.

JMO

 

[Kimmer]

Lets also not forget that LE has all of TH phone records as well as computer records, I am betting this is how they found the LS to begin with, so maybe there are some very intresting text messages or even some IM records that prove what the LS told LE.

 

[For The Kids]

I feel maybe this RO was sealed for the murder for hire plot.Now that she did not take the bait.I feel there is no case.

On the other hand...maybe they class the guy as credible whereas we know that Terri has reportedly had polygraphs that show her as being deceptive. Because shes now denying it..that doesnt mean the detectives necessarily find her credible and more to the point..what was said before she denied it...ie did the guy speak to her on the phone arrange to meet her...but then turn up with the cop? Also..ie were there any emails ever between the pair? Its a fact that the cops still believed this guy enough after " the sting" to tell Kaine to get him and his daughter out there.

MOO

 

[Ms Suzanne]

If this landscaper threatened her before she may have felt it was a threat again.I seriously hope LE is taking a much closer look at this landscaper now.

 

[Adalena935]

I'm thinking she knew this LS pretty well after all those months and knew he wouldn't ask her for $10,000 to keep quiet. She probably sensed he was acting a bit different and knew something fishy was up ~ IMO

I too imagine she knew him more than just gardening if it's true what he says she asked him to do; murder her husband.

Yes could be he acted fishy to her. We don't know what was said or how much was said. Only that she cut the convo short. That might imply nothing was said. But not to me. To me it only states the convo ended before it was slated to.

To me it means it ended unexpectedly with her ending it.

We don't know what they have on tape against her. It might be more than some imagine. And I don't see why people think the sting on her was "botched" just because she ended it suddenly.

To me that says she got scared. Maybe there's a reason for that.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

On the other hand...maybe they class the guy as credible whereas we know that Terri has reportedly had polygraphs that show her as being deceptive. Because shes now denying it..that doesnt mean the detectives necessarily find her credible and more to the point..what was said before she denied it...ie did the guy speak to her on the phone arrange to meet her...but then turn up with the cop? Also..ie were there any emails ever between the pair? Its a fact that the cops still believed this guy enough after " the sting" to tell Kaine to get him and his daughter out there.

MOO

I am in total shock they believed this guy in the first place.I hope they are taking a much closer look at him now.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Him and his white truck.

 

[evelyn24]

Lets also not forget that LE has all of TH phone records as well as computer records, I am betting this is how they found the LS to begin with, so maybe there are some very intresting text messages or even some IM records that prove what the LS told LE.

This is what I'm thinking as well. The DA might want the RO public now that it's been reported their sting failed and people are questioning why they did the sting etc.
We'll see, should be interesting. I was one who thought their sting was a bad idea.

 

[desquire]

Unsealing the RO file will tell us whether TH has contested the RO yet. I'm sure she will and, unless there are some facts we don't know, she will probably be successful. Unlike the uncontested immediate TRO, at a contested hearing the burden will be on KH to show by a preponderance of the evidence that TH attempted to cause him bodily harm. This is the same "more likely than not" standard that the police would have to satisfy to arrest her in the alleged lawnboy/assasin plot. The DA has clearly signalled that they don't have enough to pursue those allegations any further so it's highly likely that the judge would reach the same conclusion in the context of the RO. Sure, the RO will remain in place to the extent it prohibits TH from abusing KH, but there is no way the custody arrangements will stand. No judge would (or should) keep a baby from her mother based solely on unsubstantiated accusations.

 

[evelyn24]

I am in total shock they believed this guy in the first place.I hope they are taking a much closer look at him now.

We have no idea what the LE has regarding the communication between he LS and TH, and maybe there are others who were asked by TH to kill Kaine making this man's story even more solid?
Who knows, but why say this man has no credibility when we have ZERO facts and details about why LE believed him.

imo

 

[cluciano63]

I don't know that the DA has clearly signalled that they don't have enough to pursue the allegations re: landscaper, I think that the possible unsealing of the RO just won't put the investigation in jeopardy any longer, since it is now public. I wonder if the guy's name is in there? I doubt they would want that out there.

 

[Tiki]

The LS had an UC officer with him - that probably made her suspicious. I wonder why they sent him along - wouldn't the taped conversation be enough?

Also, fron the DA's letter to the judge:

"I express no opinion on any position Terri Horman might have in the matter."

Does that mean she (her lawyer) might have some impact on the judge's decision?

and
"You told me of your intent to decide what further action was warranted after you reviewed the sealed documents when your court was open again on Thursday, July 8."

I suppose judges usually go along with the DA's recommendation, but I have been in courtrooms where they didn't.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171619/detail.html

 

[Adalena935]

Lets also not forget that LE has all of TH phone records as well as computer records, I am betting this is how they found the LS to begin with, so maybe there are some very intresting text messages or even some IM records that prove what the LS told LE.

Thanks that's a good point. Also most LE tapes their conversations with people making any statements. I'm fairly confident they have the landscaper on tape making these allegations that this woman tried to have her husband murdered. As we know that's illegal to make false allegations to LE. So whoever the man is, he's genuinely between a rock & a hard place if LE decides to press the issue where he's concerned I would imagine. A minor point given what you've pointed out.