2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[BeanE]

Bunch reiterated that the $350,000 figure that Rackner suggested in court papers that Terri Horman had paid for Houze was "inaccurate." He said the court will have to consider what constitutes a marital asset.

The question may be: "If money paid from a third party to Mr. Houze, whether it can be considered a marital asset," Bunch said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_moulton_horman_appears_i.html

 

[stmarysmead]

BRAVO!!!! You said it way better than I could. There is SUCH a double standard here. So he needs to fork over money to her, but she should be able to have secret accounts and do what she wants. That makes absolutely no sense to me. He has every right to find out where that money came from. And SHE is the one who brought it up, regardless of how that text is interpreted. This whole issue simply could have been avoided if Terri had NOT texted MC about how much her new lawyer costs. That was HER bad decision, not Kaine's.

And now he can't question that? He should leave her alone to her secret fortune or leave her penniless after all she's done? He should just trust that she's not using money that belongs to him? Why are the standards continually lowered for Terri and but continually heightened for Kaine? If it were the other way around, and he was the one that was penniless, would anyone feel sorry for him and give him a break? Seems like he can't win no matter what he does, but Terri can do what she wants and still come out looking like a rose. That just isn't fair at all.

Bravo to both of you!

Here's a guy whose son goes missing. He is devastated. Initially we see him cradling and comforting his wife. He said NOT ONE negative thing about Terri until the police called him in and informed him of a Murder-For-hire plot.

Involving...(drum-roll) THAT WIFE.

Maybe they showed him sexually explicit photos and texts that his "loving wife" sent along as a bonus to the guy she was soliciting to put him to death.

His son is missing and if that isn't horrific enough...he hears FROM POLICE that his wife wanted him DEAD. Not some nosy neighbor...POLICE!

But Kaine was supposed to blow this all off. Stay right there with Terri. Not leave her! Not divorce her!

He's not human...it's not like HIS world is utterly destroyed. It's all about poor Terri!

What was he supposed to do then? One child has already disappeared. The police give this story credibility. Is he supposed to leave his BABY, his only other child, in the care of this woman SO DISTURBED that she tries to hire killer which makes it darn more likely she could be a killer herself. Hey, roll the dice with Baby K!

Right?

The Police believe Terri has the stomach for murder. (if they believe the MFH) The police believe she could choose death as a problem solver. But Kaine and the Baby should ignore that , live with her, give her money...let her have the Baby...let her be all alone with her. The ACCUSED MURDER-FOR-HIRE plotter. The woman who MAY have been the last with his missing son. Who tells him she's failing polygraphs about his son.

After all..Kaine might be cheap and controlling...that to some is the moral equivalence of a potential Murderess.

And he's gone 4 days, and "loving" Terri is posing for pictures and 100s of texts again with a NEW guy...on what a court document says looks like a similar incident to what the Landscaper alleges.

But she's just..."venting." It's Kaine who is so mean.

Yes, Kaine is so terrible not to be fully supportive and loving of Terri. And it would be absolutely responsible to let her have Baby K, a vulnerable infant, all to herself, all alone...when ALL this unresolved and the Murder For Hire charge NOT discredited. Kaine the Meanie...should do that.

Wouldn't each of you, with your much-loved child? Especially after your other child has "disappeared."

And if Kaine did...and anything happened to that Baby...what would all of you who think he is so terrible...say then?

 

[desquire]

Can you put the case of Kyron missing in with the divorce? I don't know if our lawyers are still here, but logically speaking (out of my rear), I don't understand how you can say "I want a divorce because she tried to kill me and she is involved with the disappearance of my son" WHICH may of contributed to the divorce, BUT there is no proof yet - at all. I don't know if dragging in witnesses (I don't know what they are coming to witness, unless it was an uhappy marriage where the woman spent all the money) to a divorce proceeding would be good and or valuable to a divorce case, IMO. Wouldn't these people get burnt out when/if the Kyron trial comes up? Can these witnesses NOT show up because of that? Would all these witnesses cause some sort of mistrial (emotions, etc.)?
Lawyers, halp please!!!

Oregon is a "no-fault" divorce state. Neither party needs a reason for the divorce and the judge does not need to hear any evidence of bad conduct or blame. Kaine requested the dissolution of the marriage, Terri has stipulated to the entry of a dissolution order. That's pretty much all the judge needs to know.

The trial-within-a-trial situation would occur in the context of a disputed custody determination. There are a number of ways that having the issue aired in a civil divorce proceeding could impact a subsequent criminal trial. That's why Terri has asked to delay the custodial portion of the divorce proceedings.

 

[STEADFAST]

Mr. Houze routinely defends very wealthy, high profile clients. He does not want for any clients. He defends people who CAN and DO pay up front. Geragos asked for and got paid in advance to defend Scott Peterson. His parents expected all the siblings to take out second mortgages to help pay Geragos.

If you don't pay your mechanic, you don't get your car back. If you have no insurance, it is indeed routine for a dentist or doctor to want to be paid at the time of service. I used to work for a dentist and not only did we expect to be paid up front by uninsureds, but we asked for the portion the insurance didn't cover for our insured patients.

If Terri cannot pay Houze halfway through the trial, and he is compelled to finish, how can he collect from her? All she needs to do is file bankruptcy.

If he is smart, and I think we all agree he is, he will get paid up front.

But "up front" of what? What if there is no trial, or what if there's a trial but not a $350,000 trial? What if the trial doesn't happen for years? Does he get to hold that money and earn interest?
If Terri had to pay Houze $350,000, it indicates to me that he expects her to be tried for murder. There's no statute of limitations, so does he get to keep the money forever just in case she is ever arrested and tried and in the meantime take some sort of payment out for what work he does?

 

[SurfieTX]

Oregon is a "no-fault" divorce state. Neither party needs a reason for the divorce and the judge does not need to hear any evidence of bad conduct or blame. Kaine requested the dissolution of the marriage, Terri has stipulated to the entry of a dissolution order. That's pretty much all the judge needs to know.

The trial-within-a-trial situation would occur in the context of a disputed custody determination. There are a number of ways that having the issue aired in a civil divorce proceeding could impact a subsequent criminal trial. That's why Terri has asked to delay the custodial portion of the divorce proceedings.

What about property and assets?

 

[Donjeta]

Yes, I agree, there is a double standard.

When Terri, having no money of her own, wanted money to move out of the marital home, the outcry was phenomenal. The majority supported Kaine's right to keep his assets to himself. What's his was his, and she didn't deserve any of it. And, although Terri has not been charged, much less convicted of anything, rumors and gossip fueled the aforementioned outcry.

Now that Terri's lawyer is being paid, although we don't know how, Kaine believes he has a right to that information and, perhaps, the money. So when Kaine left Terri, she wasn't entitled or deserving of his money, and I doubt anyone, much less Kaine, would've been agreeable to Terri probing his finances, but now that she does or may have money of her own, he's entitled to an accounting of her money?

I haven't seen Kaine file any motions to try and prevent Terri probing his finances. He actually filed for divorce and wanted their finances probed enough to be divided and objected to the request for abatement that would have given him a freedom from any financial probing by Terri for up to two years.

Anyway, Terri seems to have a pretty decent clue about how much money Kaine has, according to Houze. He hasn't both claimed that he is penniless and that he's either paid or going to pay 350,000 for a lawyer.

Double standard or not I think every single one of us would be way curious if we were divorcing from a penniless person who didn't have enough money to move out of our marital home but suddenly appeared with $350,000 worth of something shiny and new.

 

[Donjeta]

He's not demanding to know how much she has in secret assets, though. He's demanding to know how she's paying for a criminal attorney. That firstly falls under privilege (even if she opened the door by stupidly texting MC ......well, anything really, let's be honest....but how much this attorney is going to cost). But that isn't to say (AGAIN!!) that is how much she has paid. And if she hasn't paid, it is none of Kaine's business. If, once they're divorced and Terri and Houze have made an agreement for payment post-marriage, it is their business, as well. Not Kaine's.

In fact, her divorce attorney assured the Court that Terri has no income and no assets. That should settle the matter. Why didn't it?

Mentioning the 350,000 dollars may have caused reasonable doubt?

Maybe it turns out that she's got no assets now because she paid all that she had hidden away on the secret Swiss bank account to Houze for him to defend her from criminal charges that will never be filed.

Maybe they should just agree to leave it and burn whatever money they've got on a bonfire instead of fighting for it. It might save them money in the long run. This way I'm pretty sure that the lawyers are getting the lion's share.

 

[Donjeta]

Bunch reiterated that the $350,000 figure that Rackner suggested in court papers that Terri Horman had paid for Houze was "inaccurate." He said the court will have to consider what constitutes a marital asset.

The question may be: "If money paid from a third party to Mr. Houze, whether it can be considered a marital asset," Bunch said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_moulton_horman_appears_i.html

Could it be considered a gift to Terri?

If Scott Peterson's siblings paid for his lawyer was it considered a transaction between the lawyer and the siblings or from siblings to Scott and from Scott to lawyer?

 

[gardeness]

It seems to me that if Terri is penniless (and it does appear that she is, since she had no job~and apparently their savings account is "his" only), someone else would be paying her lawyer. IOW, the $350,000 or whatever amount Houze is being paid came from someone other than Terri. That certainly does not mean that Terri suddenly had that money herself... I haven't even read anything from Terri stating that she was in possession of a large amount of money...

 

[stmarysmead]

Yes, I agree, there is a double standard.

When Terri, having no money of her own, wanted money to move out of the marital home, the outcry was phenomenal. The majority supported Kaine's right to keep his assets to himself. What's his was his, and she didn't deserve any of it. And, although Terri has not been charged, much less convicted of anything, rumors and gossip fueled the aforementioned outcry.

Now that Terri's lawyer is being paid, although we don't know how, Kaine believes he has a right to that information and, perhaps, the money. So when Kaine left Terri, she wasn't entitled or deserving of his money, and I doubt anyone, much less Kaine, would've been agreeable to Terri probing his finances, but now that she does or may have money of her own, he's entitled to an accounting of her money?

The information that drove Kaine to leave Terri and inflamed opinion against her came from the police. That is a far cry from "rumors and gossip."

The Murder For Hire story is not something some random talking head proposed on Nancy Grace...and Kaine jumped up and said, "I'm outta here!"

You mean, if police came to your door now and told you your neighbor had a bomb they were hoping to detonate tonight...you'd send the kiddies out to play on her side of the house , make a pot of coffee...and call it "rumor and gossip?" You'd take that chance with YOUR life and your children?

This is not your average Kramer vs. Kramer. There's a missing child and a Murder-for-Hire allegation channeled through the investigating police.

 

[Bethlamb16]

Give me a break. She can't promise anything that is jointly owned.

She can't sell the house without him participating.

She can't sell property that he is essentially in possession of.

She can't liquidate any JOINT accounts without him.

It's ridiculous to think that:
1.) she COULD access any joint property to fund her defense or her divorce.
2.) that any lawyer would accept payment in terms of a promise of said property.

Who cares where she's getting the money - maybe she sold those pics she texted to Mike Cook.

Maybe she's taken up pole dancing.

Maybe she sold the exclusive rights to her side of the story to some big publishing company.

Maybe she sold the rights to her attorney.

Maybe she hawked her jewlery.

Maybe her mustang is on E-bay.

Maybe her parents took a loan out against their house.

Maybe they are plain old paying for it.

Maybe she liquidated a retirement account.

Maybe she had some other asset or account from before she was married to Kaine.

Houze is getting all kinds of PR for this. He does like high profile cases. Maybe he's doing this all for the advertising - or maybe the payment will come at the end.

Maybe he's so sure of her innocence that phase 2 will be sueing Portland on a few different levels for slander and other things.

Who cares?!

I'd be willing to bet she isn't paying anything.

And what does it matter anyway? There is NO chance that Kaine's money is being used...and they know that - so what's with the antics?

You said it perfectly. If that is really what Kaine is concerned about being responsible for payment, etc. I am sure Houze would be more than happy to sign a waiver releasing Kaine from any responsibility to this debt. Most lawyers -- I have worked for them for years -- would not be relying on the other party's money for payment. I think there is an ulterior motive and I don't blame Kaine if he truly believes TH took his son! Personally, I think this is all "game playing" but if KH believes this will get his son back then you really can't blame the man for trying. JMO!

 

[Donjeta]

IMO Terri's lawyers probably know there is something other than rumors and gossip against her because they've labeled her as a suspect in court documents and implied that there may be a criminal case against her coming up although LE never said that in as many words.

If they were convinced that there was just rumors and gossip in way of evidence I don't understand this strategy at all. Shouldn't they be saying how ridiculous it is that anyone thinks their client may have done anything to that child she loves and pointing out that no one has produced any real evidence against her whatsoever?

 

[gardeness]

The information that drove Kaine to leave Terri and inflamed opinion against her came from the police. That is a far cry from "rumors and gossip."

The Murder For Hire story is not something some random talking head proposed on Nancy Grace...and Kaine jumped up and said, "I'm outta here!"

You mean, if police came to your door now and told you your neighbor had a bomb they were hoping to detonate tonight...you'd send the kiddies out to play on her side of the house , make a pot of coffee...and call it "rumor and gossip?" You'd take that chance with YOUR life and your children?

This is not your average Kramer vs. Kramer. There's a missing child and a Murder-for-Hire allegation channeled through the investigating police.

I'm not Cypress, but believing an accusation against my neighbor and one against my husband are two different things. And, I do suspect that LE blew this "MFH" information out of proportion. MOO There are two instances where LE, in what little we actually know of what they are doing, has looked quite foolish. One was the botched MFH sting and the other was the PC and release of the "where was the truck/who was in the truck" information, that turned into a fiasco when the groundskeeper spoke up. IMO, the standstill happened at that moment. All moo...

 

[SacreBleu]

But "up front" of what? What if there is no trial, or what if there's a trial but not a $350,000 trial? What if the trial doesn't happen for years? Does he get to hold that money and earn interest?
If Terri had to pay Houze $350,000, it indicates to me that he expects her to be tried for murder. There's no statute of limitations, so does he get to keep the money forever just in case she is ever arrested and tried and in the meantime take some sort of payment out for what work he does?

Even if there is no trial, costs are being incurred. If there's a <$350k trial, the balance is returned. If Terri (or whoever hired Houze) doesn't want to terminate her/their arrangement with him, I suppose he could keep the $ until such time as there is closure, whatever that might entail.

 

[gardeness]

IMO Terri's lawyers probably know there is something other than rumors and gossip against her because they've labeled her as a suspect in court documents and implied that there may be a criminal case against her coming up although LE never said that in as many words.

If they were convinced that there was just rumors and gossip in way of evidence I don't understand this strategy at all. Shouldn't they be saying how ridiculous it is that anyone thinks their client may have done anything to that child she loves and pointing out that no one has produced any real evidence against her whatsoever?

It seems Terri's lawyers do know what's going on--their client's picture/name has been plastered on fliers and people are on television "pleading" for her cooperation. Sadly, people are wrongly accused way too often. IMO, they are acting appropriately for either a wrongful accusation or in defense of a suspect.

 

[BringKyronHome]

Mentioning the 350,000 dollars may have caused reasonable doubt?

Maybe it turns out that she's got no assets now because she paid all that she had hidden away on the secret Swiss bank account to Houze for him to defend her from criminal charges that will never be filed.

Maybe they should just agree to leave it and burn whatever money they've got on a bonfire instead of fighting for it. It might save them money in the long run. This way I'm pretty sure that the lawyers are getting the lion's share.

I think that's what it's all about...Kaine's atttorneys have dollar signs in their eyes, and that IS the reason they want to know.

Kaine & Desiree could have gone on Oprah and cashed in BIG time, oh, but poor lawyers, their clients said no...shucks - HEY Maybe that sleeze got some...maybe we can get some of hers...

YUK!

This whole thing gets harder & harder to look at every day!

 

[stmarysmead]

I'm not Cypress, but believing an accusation against my neighbor and one against my husband are two different things. And, I do suspect that LE blew this "MFH" information out of proportion. MOO There are two instances where LE, in what little we actually know of what they are doing, has looked quite foolish. One was the botched MFH sting and the other was the PC and release of the "where was the truck/who was in the truck" information, that turned into a fiasco when the groundskeeper spoke up. IMO, the standstill happened at that moment. All moo...

But we don't know, nor does Kaine obviously, that LE has made a mistake here. The sting IMO, was "botched" but not necessarily foolish if they have other credible evidence. We don't even know if the groundskeeper is credible.

But we know this information cameto Kaine from LE.

Let's put this accusation in context...Kaine hears this from the police who are investigating his son's disappearance. The guy is already in the midst of an horrific situation. THEN, he is told this.

And he has trusted Kyron, who is missing, to this wife, who, at the least, betrayed him with"sexting" or something that resembled the second incident.

Do you expect him, in those circumstances, to disbelieve the police and trust his Baby to the same woman?

I think the tjings you expect from this man...considering the tragic circumstances...and from whom this MFH plot came...are terribly unfair.

I ask again...what if he stayed, ignored the information, and something happened to Baby K?

The opinion among some here seems to be Terri's needs and feelings come before Kaine's or even the potential welfare of Baby K.

 

[SacreBleu]

I'm not Cypress, but believing an accusation against my neighbor and one against my husband are two different things. And, I do suspect that LE blew this "MFH" information out of proportion. MOO There are two instances where LE, in what little we actually know of what they are doing, has looked quite foolish. One was the botched MFH sting and the other was the PC and release of the "where was the truck/who was in the truck" information, that turned into a fiasco when the groundskeeper spoke up. IMO, the standstill happened at that moment. All moo...

I guess I don't see the truck PC as a fiasco, because we have absolutely no idea what LE was looking for. What if they were trying to support what Terri had told them - and the GK's statement completely contradicts what she told them. (For example, Terri told LE she was talking with "x" at her truck between 8:45 and 9:00. Of, she was at the truck, changing Baby K's diaper. Or, somebody stopped and asked her directions. Etc., etc., etc.) Is it still a fiasco?

 

[K9Snoop]

The following link and message was posted with the permission of Tricia:

One of the biggest things I've noticed on WS is the recurrent theme of "if you are innocent why don't you (insert action)"

With the actions being take a polygraph, talk with the police, let a search be conducted without a warrant, etc.

I was sent this link years ago on why you should NOT talk with the police, allow searches, give statements, etc. I thought the folks of WS would find this interesting and Tricia agrees.
+++++++++++++++++

When the policeman reads you the Miranda warning, honor it. Do not give a waiver. No matter what the police officer tells you, do not surrender your rights. "Do you want to talk to give me your side of the story?" You do not.

These presentations took place at Regent University's Law School. They are like nothing I have ever seen. If you do not watch both of these videos, you risk walking into a trap that could ruin your life.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/3821.cfm

 

[K9Snoop]

Just for clarification, my last post was to help folks understand WHY Terri/Dee Dee, et al may not be talking with or offering to assist the police with their investigation. I am not taking sides. This was sent for informational purposes only. I was sent the link by a cop friend who told me to watch it and keep it in mind if I ever got in trouble.