2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[BringKyronHome]

If Terri had a secret bank account - Kaine would not know by looking at his own bank records. If Terri had a secret source of income - Kaine would not know by looking into his own bank records. If Terri was given a monetary gift or payment during their marriage that she didn't tell him about - Kaine would not know by looking at his own bank records. etc etc etc.

Why else would normal divorce proceedings include financial disclosure if it was as simple as looking at your own bank records? People hide money. People lie. Sometimes it is never discovered and the other person gets screwed. Other times someone slips up and mentions a sum of money - in writing - that gives the other person reason to suspect they are hiding an asset or debt, and then these things can be investigated.

Hasn't it already been established that in OR what is brought into the marriage by each person, goes to that person at the end of the marriage.

Ok - so anything that was hers is hers.

HE BOUGHT THE HOUSE - it's his.

What's left?

If she got a gift - uhmmmm, isn't that a gift?

How in the world could she have had a secret income? She was a stay at home mom.

Of course I agree that what is theirs mutually should be split - but can we grow some common sense here...

PULLEEEZE - she did NOT pay Houze $350K. I haven't the foggiest how she intends to pay, but clearly Houze is satisfied. Why is it any of his business how he is being paid. Maybe it is from the $250K settlement of the restaurant. What does it matter...why should she be forced to say "I have sold my soul to pay for my defense, because, Kaine, as you and your attorney have so eloquently stated, I have NO income or assets."

Why do they have to just keep dragging this lower & lower...

If I were to make a wager, I would put it on, pro bono, with a cut of the exclusive interview payment (if not the entire payment).

And why do I keep coming back to this when it makes me want to vomit. I jsut can't stand this case anymore. Why do I have to keep reminding myself that there is a missing child at the CENTER of all this?

GAK!

Well, maybe someday they will find him...

 

[JBean]

The following link and message was posted with the permission of Tricia:

One of the biggest things I've noticed on WS is the recurrent theme of "if you are innocent why don't you (insert action)"

With the actions being take a polygraph, talk with the police, let a search be conducted without a warrant, etc.

I was sent this link years ago on why you should NOT talk with the police, allow searches, give statements, etc. I thought the folks of WS would find this interesting and Tricia agrees.
+++++++++++++++++

When the policeman reads you the Miranda warning, honor it. Do not give a waiver. No matter what the police officer tells you, do not surrender your rights. "Do you want to talk to give me your side of the story?" You do not.

These presentations took place at Regent University's Law School. They are like nothing I have ever seen. If you do not watch both of these videos, you risk walking into a trap that could ruin your life.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/3821.cfm

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110793"]Don't Talk to the Cops Video Series - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[gardeness]

But we don't know, nor does Kaine obviously, that LE has made a mistake here. The sting IMO, was "botched" but not necessarily foolish if they have other credible evidence. We don't even know if the groundskeeper is credible.

But we know this information cameto Kaine from LE.

Let's put this accusation in context...Kaine hears this from the police who are investigating his son's disappearance. The guy is already in the midst of an horrific situation. THEN, he is told this.

And he has trusted Kyron, who is missing, to this wife, who, at the least, betrayed him with"sexting" or something that resembled the second incident.

Do you expect him, in those circumstances, to disbelieve the police and trust his Baby to the same woman?

I think the tjings you expect from this man...considering the tragic circumstances...and from whom this MFH plot came...are terribly unfair.

I ask again...what if he stayed, ignored the information, and something happened to Baby K?

The opinion among some here seems to be Terri's needs and feelings come before Kaine's or even the potential welfare of Baby K.

Where did sexting come into play with the MFH? Terri allegedly sexted MC after Kaine left...

I could be wrong, but these are my thoughts. LE didn't have enough information from the LS to arrest Terri, so, IMO, the information was scarce. I think they jumped on it and blew it out of proportion. Sadly, I think that Kaine took a leave from his data-driven mind and allowed the LE dramatics to affect his thinking process and emotions.

 

[SacreBleu]

Nobody said it was going to be easy. Divorcing is a mess, no matter how you look at it. At one point or another during the process, each party is going to feel that something the other one did, or got, isn't fair. Both sides posture. In the end, the judge will decide how it all goes. I'd love to hear the in camera conversations; I really would....

 

[gardeness]

I guess I don't see the truck PC as a fiasco, because we have absolutely no idea what LE was looking for. What if they were trying to support what Terri had told them - and the GK's statement completely contradicts what she told them. (For example, Terri told LE she was talking with "x" at her truck between 8:45 and 9:00. Of, she was at the truck, changing Baby K's diaper. Or, somebody stopped and asked her directions. Etc., etc., etc.) Is it still a fiasco?

IMO, the fiasco is that LE did not talk to the groundskeeper before their PC/flier release--this shows incompetence. moo

 

[stmarysmead]

Remembering there is a missing child at the CENTER of this case goes a long way to explain many actions that in an ordinary case might hit us wrong.

If she has unexplained money...did she sell Kyron? Was she mixed up in something that might have caused people to kidnap him? Anything is possible.

Maybe the divorce is being used to solicit information from Terri. In ordinary circumstances, I might even be offended. But with Kyron missing...every stone must be overturned...and I have bo problem with Terri being made to give additional info.

KYron IS at the center.

 

[Donjeta]

How long was she actually a stay at home mom for? IMO we're talking about it a little like Kaine dumped her after she devoted 20 of her best years to taking care of Kaine's children 24/7 without pay but it seems that Kyron was in daycare early on and Terri studied and worked at least part time in teaching and as a restaurant manager.

In 2004, when Desiree moved to Canada to seek medical treatment, Kaine gained custody of his son. He said he was primary caretaker, dropping Kyron off at day care and picking him up.

In 2003, Terri earned a master's of art education from Pacific University in Forest Grove and was an on-call teacher for the Hillsboro School District, remaining available as a sub until 2006.

Unable to land a teaching job, she returned to restaurant work, taking a job as assistant manager at Red Robin in Sherwood, where she worked between December 2005 and August 2006.

About the same time, [refers to their wedding in 2007]Terri was working as an assistant manager at Newport Bay restaurant in Washington Square.

It sounds to me like she was either employed or unemployed and trying to get a job for most of the time before baby K's birth.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

 

[SacreBleu]

IMO, the fiasco is that LE did not talk to the groundskeeper before their PC/flier release--this shows incompetence. moo

You could be right. Time, hopefully, will tell.

 

[stmarysmead]

Where did sexting come into play with the MFH? Terri allegedly sexted MC after Kaine left...

I could be wrong, but these are my thoughts. LE didn't have enough information from the LS to arrest Terri, so, IMO, the information was scarce. I think they jumped on it and blew it out of proportion. Sadly, I think that Kaine took a leave from his data-driven mind and allowed the LE dramatics to affect his thinking process and emotions.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Poli...-98369624.html

"The motion also states police told Kaine that Terri exchanged hundred of text messages with Cook and several photographs of Terri Horman "in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity." According to the filing, the "sexual nature" of the relationship between Cook and Terri Horman began on or about June 30, four days after Kaine Horman moved out of the family's Northwest Portland home.

Cook was a high school classmate of Kaine Horman, and also helped organize the first vigil for missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.

****!!!Monday's court filing also stated that police had told Kaine that Terri's "sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent (Terri Horman) attempted to hire to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

 

[gardeness]

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Poli...-98369624.html

"The motion also states police told Kaine that Terri exchanged hundred of text messages with Cook and several photographs of Terri Horman "in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity." According to the filing, the "sexual nature" of the relationship between Cook and Terri Horman began on or about June 30, four days after Kaine Horman moved out of the family's Northwest Portland home.

Cook was a high school classmate of Kaine Horman, and also helped organize the first vigil for missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.

****!!!Monday's court filing also stated that police had told Kaine that Terri's "sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent (Terri Horman) attempted to hire to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

The sexting with MC was after Kaine left. I've read other posts where people comprehend the statement in the court filing as Terri sexted the LS, but I disagree at this point, as it does not actually state that she sexted the LS. Again, it is my opinion that LE took a kernel of information and made it into a MFH--and anything else that was said by the LS could have been manipulated. moo

 

[Adrienne37]

Yep, it sounds to me like the big bad police department in Portland has a vendetta against Terri Horman. They are trying so hard to make her guilty and I just can't imagine why. I mean, we have a pillar of the community here. A dedicated gym enthusiast, a former body builder, a sometimes substitute teacher, like I said just a gem of a character. The police have come up with some half-baked plan to accuse her of a murder-for-hire plot against her husband resulting in his leaving his marriage and taking their child with him and not allowing Terri to see her. Oh, the injustice of it all. Someone set her up and sent all of these "sexting" messages to her husband's high school friend and then took her picture (provocative from what we understand) without her permission to send to this other upstanding member of the community, you know the one who was out day after day hanging all of those fliers up about Kyron's disappearance. This dedicated step-mother was running errands the whole day of Kyron's disappearance after trying for a great amount of time to get her daughter who was suffering an earache to be comfortable. She was so dedicated to that daughter that she even drove to two stores looking for just the right medicine for her. They have subjected this woman to at least two but possibly three polygraphs, held her down and strapped her in no less, wouldn't surprise me to hear that they even went so far as to drug her to make her take them. Through no fault of her own, she has had her photographs printed and distributed on two different fliers from the police department and sent around all over the community spreading gossip and rumors about her possible involvement in the disappearance of her beloved stepson Kyron. She is now penniless, has neither of her children, has no means of transportation, and no home to call her own but she does have one thing....she has a high-priced attorney and bodyguards surrounding her because she has received so many death threats. To top all of that off, now her husband is demanding to know where she got the money to pay for her attorney, how dare him. He should know without a shadow of a doubt that his beautifully buff wife wouldn't dare take a penny of money that belonged to him to pay for this attorney. Kaine, you are just too stupid my man, I mean really, can you have any more nerve??? Yep, poor innocent Terri. I just feel so incredibly sorry for her......NOT!!! :sick:

 

[ami]

He's not demanding to know how much she has in secret assets, though. He's demanding to know how she's paying for a criminal attorney. That firstly falls under privilege (even if she opened the door by stupidly texting MC ......well, anything really, let's be honest....but how much this attorney is going to cost). But that isn't to say (AGAIN!!) that is how much she has paid. And if she hasn't paid, it is none of Kaine's business. If, once they're divorced and Terri and Houze have made an agreement for payment post-marriage, it is their business, as well. Not Kaine's.

In fact, her divorce attorney assured the Court that Terri has no income and no assets. That should settle the matter. Why didn't it?

Can you link to anything that claims Kaine is interested in Terri's financial life AFTER their divorce? Because although you keep saying it's not his business, I've never noticed anyone saying it is.

If all it takes is for an attorney to "give their word" and offer no proof... why do you think everyone doesn't just skip over the tiresome paperwork of a divorce? Why don't both sides just "give their word" and the divorce can be over and done with? No paperwork, just a verbal handshake?

Seriously, if this is a non-issue, I'm sure Terri's lawyer will prove that in court and the judge will agree and Kaine will be satisfied. Seems like all he's asking for is proof. If they have it, they can hand it over and this can all disappear and they can move on to the next item of business.

You said it perfectly. If that is really what Kaine is concerned about being responsible for payment, etc. I am sure Houze would be more than happy to sign a waiver releasing Kaine from any responsibility to this debt. Most lawyers -- I have worked for them for years -- would not be relying on the other party's money for payment. I think there is an ulterior motive and I don't blame Kaine if he truly believes TH took his son! Personally, I think this is all "game playing" but if KH believes this will get his son back then you really can't blame the man for trying. JMO!

... releasing Kaine from the debt and showing that Terri didn't actually pay him any money obtained during the marriage. It's not just the debt, it's the assets as well. And if Houze is so willing to do this, he should just do it and I'm sure we'll be reading in the news very soon that he's done so.

Hasn't it already been established that in OR what is brought into the marriage by each person, goes to that person at the end of the marriage.

Ok - so anything that was hers is hers.

HE BOUGHT THE HOUSE - it's his.

What's left?

If she got a gift - uhmmmm, isn't that a gift?

How in the world could she have had a secret income? She was a stay at home mom.

Of course I agree that what is theirs mutually should be split - but can we grow some common sense here...

PULLEEEZE - she did NOT pay Houze $350K. I haven't the foggiest how she intends to pay, but clearly Houze is satisfied. Why is it any of his business how he is being paid. Maybe it is from the $250K settlement of the restaurant. What does it matter...why should she be forced to say "I have sold my soul to pay for my defense, because, Kaine, as you and your attorney have so eloquently stated, I have NO income or assets."

Why do they have to just keep dragging this lower & lower...

If I were to make a wager, I would put it on, pro bono, with a cut of the exclusive interview payment (if not the entire payment).

And why do I keep coming back to this when it makes me want to vomit. I jsut can't stand this case anymore. Why do I have to keep reminding myself that there is a missing child at the CENTER of all this?

GAK!

Well, maybe someday they will find him...

How could she have a secret income? Seriously? A kabillion ways : ebay, webcam , mary K - does it matter? People hide income all the time. Common sense would tell someone that Terri could have assets that Kaine doesn't know about. That's why it's logical and expected for couples to share statements of asset and debt in a divorce. Happens all the time.

Why are people getting so worked up about it as if Kaine invented the practice of sharing asset and expense statements just to screw with Terri? It's his business because she entered into a contract with him when they got married and that says the assets are his business - why get worked up about it? If she's got nothing and is paying Houze nothing, then she can show that fairly easily and everyone can move on.

 

[ami]

In Oregon, assets and debts acquired during your marriage - called "marital property" - will be divided "equitably" when you divorce. All of the property owned by you and your spouse is subject to division by the court, including any inheritance or gifts received prior or during the marriage may be considered for distribution. Whether your property is held jointly or individually, there is a presumption that both you and your spouse contributed equally to the acquisition of any property, unless one of you proves otherwise.

http://research.lawyers.com/Oregon/Divorce-in-Oregon.html

I'm sure that's not a stellar reference for divorce law, but that's one view.

107.089 Documents parties must furnish to each other; effect of failure to furnish. (1) If served with a copy of this section as provided in ORS 107.088, each party in a suit for legal separation or for dissolution shall provide to the other party copies of the following documents in their possession or control:

(a) All federal and state income tax returns filed by either party for the last three calendar years;

(b) If income tax returns for the last calendar year have not been filed, all W-2 statements, year-end payroll statements, interest and dividend statements and all other records of income earned or received by either party during the last calendar year;

(c) All records showing any income earned or received by either party for the current calendar year;

(d) All financial statements, statements of net worth and credit card and loan applications prepared by or for either party during the last two calendar years;

(e) All documents such as deeds, real estate contracts, appraisals and most recent statements of assessed value relating to real property in which either party has any interest;

(f) All documents showing debts of either party, including the most recent statement of any loan, credit line or charge card balance due;

(g) Certificates of title or registrations of all automobiles, motor vehicles, boats or other personal property registered in either party’s name or in which either party has any interest;

(h) Documents showing stocks, bonds, secured notes, mutual funds and other investments in which either party has any interest;

(i) The most recent statement describing any retirement plan, IRA pension plan, profit-sharing plan, stock option plan or deferred compensation plan in which either party has any interest; and

(j) All financial institution or brokerage account records on any account in which either party has had any interest or signing privileges in the past year, whether or not the account is currently open or closed.

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/107.html

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I haven't read this entire thread, so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

What if Terri is an heir to a family Trust? I don't think Trusts include spouses as beneficiaries, so Kaine would not have a claim to Terri's assets from a Trust. I'm not aware that TH has siblings, so she may very well be the sole heir to her parents' Estate. If Terri's parents predecease her, she would inherit from them. Likewise, if Terri predeceases her progeny, Son J and Baby K become the beneficiaries/heirs of said Trust.

Perhaps the Moultons have agreed to pay their daughter's legal expenses in lieu of leaving their assets to Terri and their grandchildren. I'm not certain, but I don't think that Kaine would be entitled to any of his in-laws' money. My DH was heir to a family Trust. At no time would I have had a claim to income or final dispersal of said Trust. If DH hadn't been living, his share would have gone directly to our DD, or her children. jmo

 

[ami]

I'm not Cypress, but believing an accusation against my neighbor and one against my husband are two different things. And, I do suspect that LE blew this "MFH" information out of proportion. MOO There are two instances where LE, in what little we actually know of what they are doing, has looked quite foolish. One was the botched MFH sting and the other was the PC and release of the "where was the truck/who was in the truck" information, that turned into a fiasco when the groundskeeper spoke up. IMO, the standstill happened at that moment. All moo...

BBM - so did LE say that the second person in the truck was actually just the landscaper? I haven't heard that news. ??

 

[Morag]

...snip...If all it takes is for an attorney to "give their word" and offer no proof... why do you think everyone doesn't just skip over the tiresome paperwork of a divorce? Why don't both sides just "give their word" and the divorce can be over and done with? No paperwork, just a verbal handshake?...snip

.

Attorneys are considered to be "officers of the court", and as such, their word is accepted in many situations. If every single statement in (even ordinary) divorce cases had to be tried and proved, well, Larry King would still be trying to divorce his first wife! As officers of the court, attorneys are very conscious of their status, and it would be most unusual for a lawyer to make a false statement in a situation like this. He/she could be disbarred.

 

[stmarysmead]

The sexting with MC was after Kaine left. I've read other posts where people comprehend the statement in the court filing as Terri sexted the LS, but I disagree at this point, as it does not actually state that she sexted the LS. Again, it is my opinion that LE took a kernel of information and made it into a MFH--and anything else that was said by the LS could have been manipulated. moo

Well, it says the
"sexual overtures resemble ..."THOSE'' made."

In parsing that sentence, the word "those" clearly refers to the words "sexual overtures."

It can't mean "the sexual overtures resemble THOSE (casseroles) made...or the sexual overtures resemble THOSE (bookcases) made.

He might well have written "the sexual overtures resemble those sexual overtures made...but it is customarily not to be redundant.

What do you think "those" means used in the context of that sentence?

I'm respectfully most interested in your alternative interpretation....

 

[Donjeta]

Attorneys are considered to be "officers of the court", and as such, their word is accepted in many situations. If every single statement in (even ordinary) divorce cases had to be tried and proved, well, Larry King would still be trying to divorce his first wife! As officers of the court, attorneys are very conscious of their status, and it would be most unusual for a lawyer to make a false statement in a situation like this. He/she could be disbarred.

But it presumes that Terri actually has disclosed the true state of her finances to the attorney and we have heard that she has considered lying to an attorney she hired as an option.

Did Larry King and his first wife have their assets divided without any paperwork about what the actual assets were except their attorney's word?

 

[debs]

Can you link to anything that claims Kaine is interested in Terri's financial life AFTER their divorce? Because although you keep saying it's not his business, I've never noticed anyone saying it is.

If all it takes is for an attorney to "give their word" and offer no proof... why do you think everyone doesn't just skip over the tiresome paperwork of a divorce? Why don't both sides just "give their word" and the divorce can be over and done with? No paperwork, just a verbal handshake?

Seriously, if this is a non-issue, I'm sure Terri's lawyer will prove that in court and the judge will agree and Kaine will be satisfied. Seems like all he's asking for is proof. If they have it, they can hand it over and this can all disappear and they can move on to the next item of business.





... releasing Kaine from the debt and showing that Terri didn't actually pay him any money obtained during the marriage. It's not just the debt, it's the assets as well. And if Houze is so willing to do this, he should just do it and I'm sure we'll be reading in the news very soon that he's done so.




How could she have a secret income? Seriously? A kabillion ways : ebay, webcam , mary K - does it matter? People hide income all the time. Common sense would tell someone that Terri could have assets that Kaine doesn't know about. That's why it's logical and expected for couples to share statements of asset and debt in a divorce. Happens all the time.

Why are people getting so worked up about it as if Kaine invented the practice of sharing asset and expense statements just to screw with Terri? It's his business because she entered into a contract with him when they got married and that says the assets are his business - why get worked up about it? If she's got nothing and is paying Houze nothing, then she can show that fairly easily and everyone can move on.

Allrighty then........everyone should be satisfied with her divorce attorney's statement that Terri Horman has no assets and no income. CASE CLOSED!!!! We have agreement!!!

 

[Donjeta]

Why does anyone fight over money in divorce courts when it's as simple as that. Both parties have their lawyer write a note that they have no money and no assets and it's all done. Lawyers can print a bunch of them on cheap paper and the clients can fill in the names and the dates as self-service.