2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[grandmaj]

IMO the reason they have not answered the specific points is because they cannot. They have said that Terri will not participate because of the possibility of self incrimination.

They cannot. They never should have requested visitation. They got their abatement for 90 days they should have left it alone.

My Daddy used to tell me, you can't always have your cake and eat it too.

 

[cluciano63]

Well, what do think think would help find Kyron? This is a big place and they have looked and looked. What do you suggest? How should it be handled?

I'm not saying I have any idea what they should do. Just feeling extremely defeated by this case and as I said, I do not think Terri will ever tell what happened on June 4th, if she is guilty. Just stating my opinion, that's all.

 

[gwenabob]

I'm not saying I have any idea what they should do. Just feeling extremely defeated by this case and as I said, I do not think Terri will ever tell what happened on June 4th, if she is guilty. Just stating my opinion, that's all.

Well, it seems to me LE is sure TH knows what happened to Kyron. They tried being nice. They tried being patient. They tried being mean. Nothing worked. Now what? At the very least they can use every means available to hammer her and hammer her until she finally gives up. If that means keeping the baby away, then they need to do it. If that means isolating her, then they need to do it. I believe they are doing everything in their power to break TH and get her to talk. I think this is the last thing they can do.

They have physically looked everywhere they had an inkling he might be. The only thing left is to hope TH finally admits or someone accidentally finds him. And that might never happen.

 

[Snowden]

I support Kaine doing what he and his attorney deem necessary to ensure the safety of his daughter, since what happened to his son is still unknown and TH's possible innocence seems so sketchy. I hope she feels the heat big time. I want justice for Kyron and his sister to be protected. If keeping the baby safe means keeping her from her mother, so be it. JMO.

 

[cluciano63]

That was my point, I feel that it might never happen (Terri telling anything or anyone finding Kyron.) And that is why I feel defeated by this case.

 

[germaine]

We have long since been questioning how much of the investigation into Kyron's disappearance is being shared with KH and how much of that information he is/will be using in his divorce case. This quote not only alludes to the text messages but also 'hearsay'.

My statements stands, is it legal and/or ethical for LE to share information from an ongoing investigation in a way that it favors one side or the other in a divorce case. And as a follow-up will the intertwining of the two ultimately hurt or help either one?

For example: is Kaine being briefed on investigations into TH's life that he will then be using in the divorce.

Should he not be getting his own search warrants/PI's/subpeonas to do so?

(I am not speaking about the alleged MFH...that is understandable, I am talking about hypothetical statements such as "yeah KH we were talking to your neighbor that TH visited last saturday and they said that there was alcohol missing...." and then statements like that ending up in divorce court documents.)

i was involved in a criminal case a while ago and the investigating officer had my cell number, called it regularly, discussed the case in detail as it was ongoing, expressed his own pov, etc. At the end, there was a conviction, and no one ever questioned the conduct of the investigating officer wrt to personal communications with me. They can talke to whomever about whatever, in their discretion. jmoo

 

[Trt]

According to our lawyers, LE can divulge any information that they wish to a victim's family as it relates to an ongoing criminal investigation. Kaine can then do as he wishes with the information. The *hearsay* that they mention in the motion does relate to the MFH plot(and they try to diminish the info by calling it hearsay when most everything entered into court is hearsay in some form or another). The interesting thing is that they never say that any of the information is not true. Just that Terri *can't* answer because she values her freedom. And Kaine *knows* this, but is choosing to pick on her anyway. I wonder how much leeway they are going to continue to receive with the judge by playing the *poor Terri can't answer any questions* card...especially since none of the allegations contained in Kaine's affadavit are illegal, just point to her being an unfit mother. jmo

 

[Snowden]

IMO the reason they have not answered the specific points is because they cannot. They have said that Terri will not participate because of the possibility of self incrimination.

They cannot. They never should have requested visitation. They got their abatement for 90 days they should have left it alone.

My Daddy used to tell me, you can't always have your cake and eat it too.

Or how about, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime". :crazy:

 

[gwenabob]

That was my point, I feel that it might never happen (Terri telling anything or anyone finding Kyron.) And that is why I feel defeated by this case.

I imagine we are all frustrated. We all want Kyron found. And I completely support Kaine and LE in whatever they feel they have to do to get TH to break. And if that means hammering her with divorce and custody issues, then that is what they have to do. Playing nice was useless. Playing hardball might work if given enough time.

 

[Trt]

I so wish our lawyers were here to chime in on this. Specifically, Houze's and Bunch's assertion that what Rackner and Kaine did with the polygraph information is illegal or sanctionable. JMO

 

[germaine]

I so wish our lawyers were here to chime in on this. Specifically, Houze's and Bunch's assertion that what Rackner and Kaine did with the polygraph information is illegal or sanctionable. JMO

polygraphs are inadmissable AT TRIAL, at most, Kaine's mention of it would not be officially considered by the court in its findings of fact wrt whether baby can have supervised visitation. Also, Rackner didn't swear to it, Kaine did. So, at worst, his sworn testimony is inadmisssible. Rackner is fine. I didnt' recall that she used to be a prosecutor. But that tells me she knows her bounds. jmoo

eta: to be clear, IANAL, just my opinion based on reading on the subject and discussing with those who are.

 

[human]

I so wish our lawyers were here to chime in on this. Specifically, Houze's and Bunch's assertion that what Rackner and Kaine did with the polygraph information is illegal or sanctionable. JMO

Kaine said that TH said that she failed the polys or whatever she told everyone.

What is illegal or sanctionable about that?

TH announced it.

 

[grandmaj]

It is not admissible in court to disclose that a person refused to take a poly was my belief.

Snip:
The widely held opinion that polygraph is not admissible in court is a false one and at some point the rumor of inadmissibility festered into fact. We've provided a brief federal case history with explanations of how each case has effected the basic stance of the federal courts regarding polygraph.

http://www.thepolygraphexaminer.com/polygraph_laws.htm

Furthermore, Kaine is testifying under oath as to what Terri told him directly. He has stated since he first began speaking out that it was Terri who told him that she failed the poly.

There was a discussion about admissibility in civil cases here.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5554639&postcount=94"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.08.25 ~ Terri appears for court[/ame]

I will have to look for the case tomorrow. I don't see it cited.

 

[Trt]

Kaine said that TH said that she failed the polys or whatever she told everyone.

What is illegal or sanctionable about that?

TH announced it.

So, seems like we are dealing with more *faux* outrage from Terri's camp? JMO

 

[germaine]

finally!

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/hormanfiling.pdf

 

[Trt]

So very interesting that Houze and Bunch choose to state that Terri *can't* answer to anything contained in the affadavit because she values her freedom. I didn't see anything alleged by Kaine in the affadavit that would jeopardize Terri's freedom if addressed(drinking, facebooking and sexting, for example, aren't illegal. Lying to your lawyer isn't either). I also wonder how Houze and Bunch feel that this will affect the *public opinion* that Terri *can't* answer to the affadavit(one that could hamper her ability to have even supervised visitation with her daughter) because she values her freedom.

 

[STEADFAST]

That reply from Terri's attorney doesn't dispute any fact alleged in Kaine's response document. It seems to be arguing that allowing the public to know the truth about Terri is a vicious act and is detrimental to her.

 

[germaine]

for reference, here's Houze's idea of a win worth bragging about on his website...makes me ill.

http://www.shouze.com/display-cases.asp?artID=13

eta: dude lost his appeals and guess who the lower court judge was...Meisenheimer

 

[human]

finally!

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/hormanfiling.pdf

Bunch goes on and on about the polygraphs.

Talks about the personal texts.

The whole argument sounds so weak to me.

Public opinion? What does that have to do with the visitation?

If this is the best they can do, it's lame

 

[stmarysmead]

Bunch goes on and on about the polygraphs.

Talks about the personal texts.

The whole argument sounds so weak to me.

Public opinion? What does that have to do with the visitation?

If this is the best they can do, it's lame

Yup. It is just that...lame. And what is so telling in that "lameness" is that these are some of the state's finest attorneys...and money is no object in funding their services because Terri has her anonymous "donor."

So Big Legal Talent...plus...Money, Money, Money...gives us...THIS?

Common sense says that if Terri's reputation is being "destroyed" and that is the "problem" that the high priced attorneys bemoan in this filing...that anything THEY have to offset that damage would be used as soon as possible.

There is no advantage to their client to allow her to spend ONE MORE DAY looking like a soulless, self-absorbed sex addict...IF their are lots of OTHER texts wherein her grief, worry, and motherly concern for Kyron could rebut that image. If Terri was meeting with the girls to plan fundraisers for Kyron...if she was unburdening herself to MC in a quest for comfort...why go one more day without releasing them to offset the "destruction?"

Common sense says if you can stop the bleeding...you do. After all, there is a possible jury to be picked some day. Why let this unfair "destruction" solidify in the public image?

Common sense says...if they had anything to offset...they'd use it.

There is no reference here that Kaine might be charged with custodial interference, or that Kaine is an unfit parent,...only that it is mean of a man not to let his wife see her Baby just because the police think she killed another child and tried to have him killed.

This is more of a "whine" than a court filing. If a man beats his wife..I guess the wife should be refined and polite and not bring that violence up in custody hearings, huh?

These attorneys seem to be saying...(insert stomping foot) our client (Terri) doesn't want to talk about trying to kill her husband and/or what horrendous violence she did to his little boy...so let's pretend that didn't happen and this is a divorce between Mr. and Mrs Sweetie Pie...and close our eyes and ears. And MAKE Kaine do that too! Make him pretend this is a garden variety divorce...and search parties aren't out looking for his little boy's bones.

Maybe other attorneys will be impressed by this. Maybe the judge will be. But, if this criminal case goes to trial...I think the impression that this filing leaves with the public...is one that inflates the sickening self-absorbed image that the sexting gives us of the woman Terri Horman is. This is a woman who WANTS what SHE WANTS...and the world better line up and meet her terms. And woe to anyone...or any child that becomes... inconvenient.

And her high-priced attorneys have managed to file a motion whose tone and emptiness...reinforce the negative impression of Terri TO THE PUBLIC...that they are attempting to rebut to the judge.

My opinion only , of course.