2010.06.30 Andrea Lyon is off the Dream Team! She quits!

[Nore]

Does it really make a difference if prisoner was molested or not?

I don't see this as an excuse to murder an innocent child who has nothing to do with it, IMO...I see this as self serving to garner sympathy.

I was raised in an abusive household, I have never thought to take another's life. Instead, I left my home. I went out on my own, finished school, gotten my own apartment and raised three children. I made sure my children would never see physical abuse. I vowed to be a better parent...

If Inmate Anthony didn't like her present living conditions, she could have left. Instead, she hangs around since she's a mooch, had her expenses and Caylee's taken care of but at what cost??? If mother was too controlling, too domineering why stay??? Why not become a truely independant woman, be your own queen of the castle? Prisoner is too lazy, prisoner wants her cake and wanted to eat it as well. She didn't have to stay under Cindy's roost if she was that unhappy! It's not an excuse to kill....especially an innocent child! Justice for Caylee is coming....JMHO


Justice for Caylee

Thank You LiveLaughLuv from one who's "been there".You hit the nail on the head.I was abused mentally and physically.One gets out!!!

 

[Kentjbkent]

She's a young attractive woman from a clearly and obviously utterly twisted and dysfunctional family. While you will not be making legal history or blazing new paths, simply getting a jury to be a tad squeamish about sentencing her to death should be a reasonably high probability. Far more so than some ethnic gang banger who knocked over a kwikimart. It should not take much mitigation or arguing to actually keep her off death row. (Yes I know we are deeply emotionally attached to this case around here. But juries are normally shy about sentancing this sort of defendant to death. The odds are sadly in her favor).

as far as AL not wanting to tarnish her winning record, or her not believing KC? That doesn't make sense for me. At least as a reason for leaving. AL counts wins as whether or not the client was sentenced to death. She cares nothing about guilt or innocence, and she really doesn't even come into play until after guilt is determined. So it would be way to early to declare this unwinable from her perspective. We all know KC will probably be found guilty. Personally I think the odds still favor the jury opting for LWOP.

So I keep coming back to the basic reason for an attorney to leave. The client or co-council is simply not listening to them. Sound legal advise is not being followed. (Sorry still not buying into the "finances" excuse).

I completely agree with you and think A Lyon herself provided a little clue (and slam) when she posted this blog on June 30th, shortly before news of her quitting hit the media....

"But here is what I know -- most people don't know these defendants intimately. They don't know their life stories, what circumstances drove them to be where they were and now are, and can't see their humanity until it's placed before them in a sentencing hearing -- if they are lucky enough to see a sentencing hearing done by someone competent and who cares."[/

Little jab at Team Baez ya think? :croc:

Sounds to me like there was some longtime distention going on within the confines of the defense team regarding actions and overall motives....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrea-lyon/fighting-the-death-penalt_b_630975.html

 

[ZsaZsa]

She's a young attractive woman from a clearly and obviously utterly twisted and dysfunctional family. While you will not be making legal history or blazing new paths, simply getting a jury to be a tad squeamish about sentencing her to death should be a reasonably high probability. Far more so than some ethnic gang banger who knocked over a kwikimart. It should not take much mitigation or arguing to actually keep her off death row. (Yes I know we are deeply emotionally attached to this case around here. But juries are normally shy about sentancing this sort of defendant to death. The odds are sadly in her favor).

as far as AL not wanting to tarnish her winning record, or her not believing KC? That doesn't make sense for me. At least as a reason for leaving. AL counts wins as whether or not the client was sentenced to death. She cares nothing about guilt or innocence, and she really doesn't even come into play until after guilt is determined. So it would be way to early to declare this unwinable from her perspective. We all know KC will probably be found guilty. Personally I think the odds still favor the jury opting for LWOP.

So I keep coming back to the basic reason for an attorney to leave. The client or co-council is simply not listening to them. Sound legal advise is not being followed. (Sorry still not buying into the "finances" excuse).

AL and her quasi expert stated in Court that women who are perceived as bad mothers are treated more harshly though, according to their observations.

 

[TorisMom003]

AL and her quasi expert stated in Court that women who are perceived as bad mothers are treated more harshly though, according to their observations.

Which is simply not true. There is so much research out there that proves that men that murder children get the harshest punishment more than women that murder children. It is rare to see a mother receive death for murdering their child/children. However in my opinion the mothers should be punished more severly. After all, the mother has around 9 months of carrying the child in her womb, then the delivery to bond with the child that the father does not have.

I thank god for Rick for bringing to Cindy's attention that Casey was pregnant when he did. I strongly feel that if he had not Cindy would have continued to turn a blind eye, Caylee would have been born quietly and then quickly discarded immediately after birth. In some ways I think that maybe that would have been best for Caylee as she would have been to young to understand that "mommy" was killing her. It's a very difficult situation all around and one that Caylee would not be able to win no matter what.

 

[sleutherontheside]

They are spending an inordinate amount of time money and effort regarding Mitigation, giving us a 'glimpse' of how Casey got that way.
My response to all that is 'Who cares ?'
Dictionary Definition of Mitigation- to act in such a way as to reduce the seriousness of an offense....

According to Capitalpunishmentincontext.org
(having a problem getting link to work properly so cut and paste for now)

MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES
Mitigating circumstances are the evidence defense presents in the sentencing phase in order to provide reasons why the defendant should not receive the death sentence. These circumstances may reduce the degree of culpability of a criminal act. Some of the mitigating circumstances include lack of prior criminal record, abusive childhood, mental problems, defendant’s youth, and defendant’s showing of remorse. If the defense presents evidence as mitigating, such evidence is constitutionally required to be admitted as long as it is relevant.

So it is not so much reducing the severity of the actual offense....but possibly reducing the culpability for the offense.

I totally get what you are saying though. I really do.

 

[beach]

According to Capitalpunishmentincontext.org
(having a problem getting link to work properly so cut and paste for now)

MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES
Mitigating circumstances are the evidence defense presents in the sentencing phase in order to provide reasons why the defendant should not receive the death sentence. These circumstances may reduce the degree of culpability of a criminal act. Some of the mitigating circumstances include lack of prior criminal record, abusive childhood, mental problems, defendant’s youth, and defendant’s showing of remorse. If the defense presents evidence as mitigating, such evidence is constitutionally required to be admitted as long as it is relevant.

So it is not so much reducing the severity of the actual offense....but possibly reducing the culpability for the offense.

I totally get what you are saying though. I really do.

RBBM

I'm ready to see some remorse, personally.

Since this won't be relevant until the sentencing phase, how about trying a brand, spanking new approach - something totally foreign to Casey Anthony. Enough with the lies and excuses, let's go with responsibility and remorse.

 

[Spangle]

Which is simply not true. There is so much research out there that proves that men that murder children get the harshest punishment more than women that murder children. It is rare to see a mother receive death for murdering their child/children. However in my opinion the mothers should be punished more severly. After all, the mother has around 9 months of carrying the child in her womb, then the delivery to bond with the child that the father does not have.

I thank god for Rick for bringing to Cindy's attention that Casey was pregnant when he did. I strongly feel that if he had not Cindy would have continued to turn a blind eye, Caylee would have been born quietly and then quickly discarded immediately after birth. In some ways I think that maybe that would have been best for Caylee as she would have been to young to understand that "mommy" was killing her. It's a very difficult situation all around and one that Caylee would not be able to win no matter what.

True. Mostly because many folks can't grasp a mother would do it. IT's a dirty secret that folks don't want to admit.

However, it use to be that if a woman harmed her husband, she would get the book thrown at her. While he would barely get a talking too if he harmed her.

Again, warped thinking. Women are suppose to obey no matter what and their Husbands had the 'right' to punish them. Women should know not to push men to far, yada, yada, yada. BS, BS.

This case actually should have been an easy one for AL. Florida rarely puts women on Death Row. It happens, yes. But all this "They want to kill my client" talk, has really planted the idea that KC should be on death row. I mean, planted it deep down.

 

[kushka]

Which is simply not true. There is so much research out there that proves that men that murder children get the harshest punishment more than women that murder children. It is rare to see a mother receive death for murdering their child/children. However in my opinion the mothers should be punished more severly. After all, the mother has around 9 months of carrying the child in her womb, then the delivery to bond with the child that the father does not have.

I would like to see the statistics you quote showing that men get harsher sentences for the murder of children then woman - for I assume that they are showing men and woman killing in different circumstances. Man in general tend to commit murders that are more violent and are sentenced accordingly. However - when the children were killed in similar circumstances - from cases I have read it is just the opposite.

For example a couple of weeks ago I read a blog on the horror of leaving a child unattended in cars and in it they sited a An Associated Press (AP) analysis done in 2007, comprising of over 310 fatal incidents of children left unattended -
Quote:
“The AP study found that mothers were treated much more harshly than fathers. While both the mother and the father were charged and convicted at approximately the same rate, mothers were 26 % more likely to be locked up; with a median sentence of 2 years longer than the fathers' terms.”

http://www.blogher.com/not-even-minute-children-left-unattended-vehicles?wrap=groups/5-and-under

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I really think Casey's best bet would be to cite emotional abuse from Cindy as her strongest mitigating factor, but even when I go there and imagine what she went through I keep thinking about how she really had it good compared to a lot of other young mothers out there....I really just end up thinking that she hasn't really got much to use in mitigation. (I also think how much Casey abused Cindy back....the THEFT from her mother - one could easily argue that Casey was the abuser in the relationship if they wanted to).

Here's a girl in a nice house, who was attractive, who had a very active social life, babysitting support, and worse - who had a way out....her mother would have taken Caylee from her....no, its just not enough for me - don't get me wrong I really do think Cindy was a nightmare to live with, but when I compare Casey's situation with that of girls who live in horribly abusive situations, in poverty, without hope, I just don't think it's there....I just don't think that there is enough to mitigate what she did to Caylee.

I really don't know Andrea Lyon's reasons for leaving, but I hope that when she had a good look at the situation she decided to save her time, and her energy for the people facing the death penalty that really deserve her help, because in my opinion Casey Anthony is not one of them.

 

[TorisMom003]

Below are just two that I found while searching for information about Mothers/Fathers killing their children. The link is first with a snip of the article that applies to the punishment for mothers vs. fathers.

http://www.expertclick.com/NewsRele...s.aspx?ID=10548&CFID=4189451&CFTOKEN=56873301

-- Crime statistics show that mothers are more rarely or more mildly punished for filicide than fathers.

http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/

According to a recent book entitled Mothers Who Kill Their Children, by Michelle Oberman—a professor of law at DePaul University—juries are loath to hand down murder convictions for mothers accused of killing their own children. Such juries are even more reluctant to impose draconian penalties. A 1969 study by Dr. Phillip Resnick, the "father" of maternal filicide (the murder of a child by a parent), found that while mothers convicted of murdering their children were hospitalized 68 percent of the time and imprisoned 27 percent of the time, fathers convicted of killing their children were sentenced to prison or executed 72 percent of the time and hospitalized only 14 percent of the time. More recent British studies by P.T. D'Orban support these findings. And although the United States does not have any formal equivalent to England's Infanticide Act—which codifies a sort of postpartum depression defense—American juries and judges have taken it upon themselves to excuse and treat most of these mothers for mental illness while condemning the fathers as violent criminals.

As a sidenote, Ms. Oberman is no longer a professor at DePaul.

 

[kushka]

Below are just two that I found while searching for information about Mothers/Fathers killing their children. The link is first with a snip of the article that applies to the punishment for mothers vs. fathers.

http://www.expertclick.com/NewsRele...s.aspx?ID=10548&CFID=4189451&CFTOKEN=56873301

-- Crime statistics show that mothers are more rarely or more mildly punished for filicide than fathers.

http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/

According to a recent book entitled Mothers Who Kill Their Children, by Michelle Oberman—a professor of law at DePaul University—juries are loath to hand down murder convictions for mothers accused of killing their own children. Such juries are even more reluctant to impose draconian penalties. A 1969 study by Dr. Phillip Resnick, the "father" of maternal filicide (the murder of a child by a parent), found that while mothers convicted of murdering their children were hospitalized 68 percent of the time and imprisoned 27 percent of the time, fathers convicted of killing their children were sentenced to prison or executed 72 percent of the time and hospitalized only 14 percent of the time. More recent British studies by P.T. D'Orban support these findings. And although the United States does not have any formal equivalent to England's Infanticide Act—which codifies a sort of postpartum depression defense—American juries and judges have taken it upon themselves to excuse and treat most of these mothers for mental illness while condemning the fathers as violent criminals.

As a sidenote, Ms. Oberman is no longer a professor at DePaul.

Thank You–

I just read the Slate article you sited– and as I thought - the statistics were gross statistics that did not take into account the method of murder. As the article stated “a study by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children shows that fathers are far more violent”. And again the desperately in sentencing could be shown to just be a reflection of that , for surly a person who beats a child to death will be sentence more harshly then one who smothers a child in there sleep. And as I stated, the studies I have read that in cases where the methods are the same, it was the women given harsher sentences.

And for the other article you referenced it stated “Mothers kill children only, but men who kill their children are more likely to kill their wives.” And surly a double homicide is going to be sentenced more harshly then a single.

I did really enjoy reading the Slate article though, the point of which was that he sees the reason for the disparity is not the violence of the crime, which he just threw out in passing, but what I also see as an important point; which is that children as seen as being “owned” by their mothers”. I don’t necessarily agree; because up until the 20th century, the child was seen as solely belonging to the fathers and still in many cultural groups in the US (including the one I am a product of) the child is seen as belong to the father. I do agree however that the seeing a child as being owned by either or both of the parents is the reason that the killing of one child is treated as much less of a crime in general then other killings.

To get back on the subject, one of the reasons Casey thought she would get away with killing Caylee was that she saw Caylee as hers, and did not even comprehend that she was committing a crime against the state, but only getting rid of what belonged to her. In addition, Cindy has the same attitude; she believes that Casey and Caylee both as belonging to her, and the rest of us should stay out of it.

 

[TrY]

I really do wonder if AL decided to leave the case over money (or the lack of it) since ICA has been declared indigent for a while. It does make me wonder where did all the money that was raised for Casey's defense go -- what was the money spent on? -- and if JB should have managed the money better. If he had manged the money better would AL have stayed on?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I really do wonder if AL decided to leave the case over money (or the lack of it) since ICA has been declared indigent for a while. It does make me wonder where did all the money that was raised for Casey's defense go -- what was the money spent on? -- and if JB should have managed the money better. If he had manged the money better would AL have stayed on?

I'm wondering if Andrea Lyon had a problem with how the money Casey had early on was acquired ... and if the rumours are true that there is going to be a fairly large payout after the trial, then I wonder if she would have had an ethical problem with that too....

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/03/15/watts-up-with-this

....8 mins in....

 

[The World According]

Just saw an update on Levi's FB!

BREAKING NEWS: Andrea Lyon is OUT! The "Angel of Death Row" is no longer part of the Casey Anthony defense team! Tune in tonight at 9 PM ET for more! Listen here: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/levipage/2010/07/01/the-levi-page-show


Lemme go find a link quick!


here we go
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-anthony-andrea-lyon-20100630,0,2682343.story



Looks like it's a $ issue... hmm YEAH!

Thank you Blonde Gurl for getting us this news hot off the press the other day. Watching Cheney Mason speak to reporters after a recent hearing I inferred he was mocking the rest of the defense team. With one word; "impassable," he negated two years of defense motions. If she didn't care for Jose, she has even more of a problem with Cheney , imo. I think this is the real reason Andrea bailed, the conflict between the lawyers on strategy. The very public dressing down Cheney does at literally laughing at the defense's actions before he came on the case, could not have helped matters. I thought it was interesting that George said in his letter he was summoned to speak to Cheney and Jose ( about the molestation , I assume ), and not that he received a call from Andrea. Andrea is the one who has been working with the mitigation specialist. This would be more her topic than theirs, right?
It was not about the money. Indeed it was Andrea, imo, who pushed Jose to declare Casey indigent. She first raised this in open court when the Motion to Perpetuate the Testimony of Jill Kerley was being argued. She is in a new income bracket after the success of her book, The Angel of Death Row, and she could afford coach plane tickets and or appear by Skype or phone for the hearings until the trial. It is that they did not like, trust or respect one another and she got fed up. I do think we will hear about it one day in her next book, although she will change the names or use hypothetical examples, she will find a way to get in a few digs. I think she knew she would be bowing out the minute she suggested Jose declare Casey indigent, and I think she suggested to Jose he search high and he search low for a replacement death qualified attorney. Except for the first day in court when Jose was so proud to introduce her, I have seen a very palatable tension between her and Jose. So, she was planning to leave,it was cheap shots when Cheney belittled her work, but she was already gone, in many ways, imo. The fact that Jose and Cheney said to the press you wont see any difference in how the case is being handled was a very big clue. That was spitting in her face, she wont be missed was the clear message. They could have been more gracious, we are eternally grateful for all of her work on this case, which she did entirely pro bono. We regret losing her and want to publicly thank her, is what they should have said. PR is not their strong suit.

Speaking of her book, one could not buy the publicity she got from being on this case. She has released other books, and we were unaware of her, because they would throw in a few questions about this case, she was invited on every network to discuss her book. She got plenty of mileage out of her time on this case, believe me.

 

[zoey]

Thank you Blonde Gurl for getting us this news hot off the press the other day. Watching Cheney Mason speak to reporters after a recent hearing I inferred he was mocking the rest of the defense team. Despite Todd, Andrea and Jose screaming from the mountain tops that they have people that DID SEARCH there , and that they will testify that the ground was DRY, Cheney told reporters recently that is simply not true. "The public has been made to believe that these people searched the exact area where the body was, or tried to and couldn’t,” Mason said. “The fact is they didn’t try to, and they didn’t. They weren’t there. And it was impassable at the time."
This negated two years of defense motions. Mr. Nejame has been explaining this with photos that indeed the area was, in Cheney's words, "Impassable" , under water! I think this is the real reason Andrea bailed, the conflict between the lawyers and the very public dressing down Cheney does at literally laughing at the defense's actions before he came on the case. It was not about the money. Indeed it was Andrea, imo, who pushed Jose to declare Casey indigent. She first raised this in open court when the Motion to Perpetuate the testimony of Jill Kerley was being argued. She is in a new income bracket after the success of her book, The Angel of Death Row, and she could afford coach plane tickets and or appear by Skype or phone for the hearings until the trial. It is that they did not like, trust or respect one another and she got fed up. I do think we will hear about it one day in her next book, although she will change the names or use hypothetical examples, she will find a way to get in a few digs. I think she knew she would be bowing out the minute she suggested Jose declare Casey indigent, and I think she suggested to Jose he search high and he search low for a replacement death qualified attorney. Except for the first day in court when Jose was so proud to introduce her, I have seen a very palatable tension between her and Jose. So, she was planning to leave, but Cheney who belittled her work, hastened the departure, imo.

ITA---it also isn't the first death qualified attorney to leave--TL left due to jb not listening to what he wanted to do---I firmly believe that jb is not doing her any favors by sticking around....:twocents:

 

[beach]

Lord knows I am the last one to make any excuses for Jose Baez, but I do think it is important to remember that even if he DID advise her to plead this out, ultimately the decision lies with Casey. (I am NOT saying he HAS advised her of this, because I don't think that is the case.)

I think both Casey and Cindy want to see it through to the end. In her most recent GMA interview, Ashleigh Banfield reports that she asked Cindy if she could relate to Beth Holloway or Anita Van der Sloot - Cindy replied that she could relate to Beth but emphasized ABSOLUTELY NOT to Anita because (para) "there is no confession or plea in this case".

 

[Aedrys]

And I'm thinking she won't be the last to leave, either. Considering it was only Baez at the last hearing, I thinking all the rats are jumping ship soon. It may just end up being Baez, Cheney (purely for DP purposes and nothing else) and Casey all by themselves soon. Shoot, even Cheney may leave if he thinks they can get another DP attorney.

It's a combination of no money or publicity to be made anymore, and Baez refusing to listen to reason and do what needs to be done to defend Casey. I don't think this is for an appeal later on. I think it's specifically to give Casey no hope and have her actually want to plea out instead of taking this trial. I don't know that the state would go for it, but I'm thinking it's Baez's last desperate strategy at this point. And he is definitely alienating the entire defense team to do this. None of them seen gung ho to defend or even be near Casey anymore. It's like a high school clique that decided to ditch one member out in the cold. They're not even being subtle about it!

And Casey actually seems to be realizing how bad all of this is and how bad her future is going to be. Combined with falling flat on her face and now having a capped tooth in front of her mouth where everyone can see her imperfection, she seems to be actually depressed and has lost all of her confidence that she would walk out of jail someday. So it appears his strategy is working. It might even be a strategy that AL actually agreed to. She gets off the case, no more crap from DePaul and bad publicity, and Baez just might get a plea for LWOP, which means AL wins anyway. Or Baez might have just po'd her enough by not listening to her that she decided it was better to jump ship than to continue to fight him on everything.

I honestly can't tell if this is a brilliant strategy or just Baez being himself and refusing to lay down his ego and actually take some advice for once. Either way, Casey is looking more and more screwed by the minute.

 

[Tulessa]

Just saw an update on Levi's FB!

BREAKING NEWS: Andrea Lyon is OUT! The "Angel of Death Row" is no longer part of the Casey Anthony defense team! Tune in tonight at 9 PM ET for more! Listen here: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/levipage/2010/07/01/the-levi-page-show


Lemme go find a link quick!


here we go
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-anthony-andrea-lyon-20100630,0,2682343.story




Looks like it's a $ issue... hmm YEAH!

Just got back from California and seen this!! Without reading any replies? She didn't want to break her winning record!! No way will Casey NOT ruin that for her hehe!!

 

[21merc7]

Just got back from California and seen this!! Without reading any replies? She didn't want to break her winning record!! No way will Casey NOT ruin that for her hehe!!

Since when is 19 a record? Still wet behind the ears and should not be speaking up. JMO moo mew what have you. Reality check for someone.

 

[believe09]

Lord knows I am the last one to make any excuses for Jose Baez, but I do think it is important to remember that even if he DID advise her to plead this out, ultimately the decision lies with Casey. (I am NOT saying he HAS advised her of this, because I don't think that is the case.)

I think both Casey and Cindy want to see it through to the end. In her most recent GMA interview, Ashleigh Banfield reports that she asked Cindy if she could relate to Beth Holloway or Anita Van der Sloot - Cindy replied that she could relate to Beth but emphasized ABSOLUTELY NOT to Anita because (para) "there is no confession or plea in this case".

O/T But Cindy has closure on her grandchild. Beth does not have closure on her daughter. Somewhat confused by the comparison. :waitasec: