2010.07.01-Family/ LE Presume Kyron Is Alive~ Need SM To Cooperate UPDATED 2010.07.03

[Whome?]

It is a privileged attorney-client communication, so ethically he must stay quiet unless the client authorizes him to tell.

If Kyron is still alive, "(b) A lawyer may reveal information relating to the representation of a client to the extent the lawyer reasonably believes necessary: (1) to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm . . . .." [See link at end of this post; copied from ABA MRPC Rule 1.6 Confidentiality of Information]

But if he is dead, the attorney cannot tell.

What does the attorney have to lose if he tells anyway? (1) His license to practice law, (2) malpractice lawsuit, (3) his fellow attorneys would despise him because it would erode client confidence in the attorney-client privilege.

Is there a way around this -- even if unethical -- which protects the attorney? Yes! He can tell LE anonymously, where the body is hidden. In this conversation, he can pretend to be someone who came across it while on a excursion of his or her own, totally by accident. He should wait until some time has passed, so his client will not put two and two together.

Problem is that he will have to disguise his voice and call from a location untraceable to him. His best bet is to secretly leave his house in the wee hours, drive somewhere several hours away, make the call, returning to his office at the usual time in the morning.

Another problem is that of whether he can sufficiently disguise his voice, because it will be recorded. He cannot involve another person -- that's the highway to being found out.

Or he could send an anonymous note to a newspaper or other media, or directly to the police. That would be a better plan, especially if he can make absolutely sure that it could never be traced to him. One way to do that would be for him to leave his house secretly in the wee hours and mail the note far away from there, and return to his office at the usual time.

Either way, even if he judges the risk of being caught to be tiny, the potential personal consequences to the attorney are huge. Low risk + heavy consequence = attorney will probably keep his mouth shut.

Here is a good article which explains the situation:
http://www.llrx.com/features/wrongfulconvictionconfidentiality.htm

TYVM very good article,I don't
like this,but I understand.

 

[Aedrys]

I would love to post what I 'think' might have happened, but not sure how I can here.

I will try, if my post goes away, I will understand.

I read something yesterday. I read a bunch about this case everyday. I woke up today with that thing stuck in my head, for no good reason. I am sure that in missing people cases such as this, there are many times that people in other parts of the country think they see that missing person and maybe even take some video tape for the police to watch. If the police were to feel there was the slimmest chance it was the mission person, perhaps they would show that tape to the families involved.

If that were to happen, it wouldn't mean that anyone would know where that person is now, they would only 'know' that person is alive.

Maybe, and it's only my thoughts, that could account for the mother of a missing person to speak as fact. "Kyron is still alive."

Dear God: Please let her words be true.

I think you might be onto something. I am starting to think that what was said was a backwards psychology tactic, basically telling us clues and things about the investigation without specifically telling us about clues and things about the investigation. For instance, most of what has been released about Kyron has to do with him being hurt. Also if you pay close attention to the parents, they are revealing as well:

Can't see without his glasses
Picture circulated specifically without his glasses
Looking in water, in the thick forests, and on an island (all places he could wander and get hurt)
Someone using a cadaver dog
Speculation mostly about kidnapping or murdering, not wandering off
He has a birth mark that only shows up when he's upset (He's upset?)
He is allergic to bees (so maybe he was stung by one?)
Saying he's still alive (so the did the A's, but they knew Caylee was dead, they just needed proof and more time to find the body before LE did, which they didn't - I am not equating the Horman's with A's, but they are acting more and more like them recently)
Parent's body language - sad, crying, not able to look up when saying he's alive, desperately hopeful

It seems to me that the message here is the opposite of what they want us to think. He has been hurt and could be dead. The birth mark is showing, and he probably has a bee sting and is sick or dead from it. He probably doesn't have his glasses on. Someone took him and hurt him, and has hidden his body.

I think they telling the perpetrator, either TH or someone she knows or her accomplice, we know what happened, we've got you dead to rights, please make it easier and give up his location so we can bring him home.

And if this is true, it's either from evidence found like clothes, or pictures/video, or something that has definitively told them what happened and who did it.

I'm sorry to say that I that I don't think Kyron is alive and they are just stalling for time until the perpetrator confesses and show them where the body is

But I will say that this case is so wild, I also wouldn't be surprised if he still was alive despite all of these indicators. I feel like I'm in a fog and just can't see what's going to happen next here.

 

[tiredblondy]

The commenter who left the comment stated they ( I assume the restaurant employees/staff) were told by the investigators that it was the missing boy from Oregon. Apparently the LE were notified by a couple sitting nearby who noticed the boy and thought the man and woman with the "alleged Kyron" were acting strangely.

I believe if this is true there is proof beyond a shadow of doubt (for me) that at the moment of the video taping Kyron was alive and I hope still is.

 

[SacreBleu]

I was thinking that too, about him finding something on the computer, MY BIG FEAR IS...since there is currently no search warrant for police to search the home, she could remove possible evidence ie: computer, clothing, etc.

Kaine is pretty computer savvy, I would suspect. I would think that if he found something, he would have saved it to a flash drive... JMHO

 

[PolyGraph]

This whole thing is so strange, it is starting to smell like a hoax to me - right down to the CSI t-shirt he is wearing in the last known photo of him. It's the only thing that makes any sense to me. It all just seems "staged" somehow. :waitasec:

MY FEELINGS exactly!!!! Like she took him that morning, photographed him, then planned the whole thing out, at first I thought she might have sold him to people and staged the abduction thing to gain sympathy (possibly munchhausen disorder (cant spell) or something like that) but now Im not sure what to believe, but I can say Im not so sure the father is completely innocent either, but to what extent his involvement may be I dont know. I have a hard time believing he never saw anything like this coming if there were prior incidents. No matter who is guilty, I def feel this thing was so planned. not accidental at all.

 

[Calliope]

I don't see what post you are referring to...

But I also do not see any way they could have proof he is alive but hope that the general public will come across him in their daily lives?

I suppose any kind of crazy thing is possible, but sadly I believe Kyron is gone and has been since June 4th and we may, if we are lucky, one day find out what happened and who did it.

http://intensedebate.com/people/inVT

 

[mtnone]

The commenter who left the comment stated they ( I assume the restaurant employees/staff) were told by the investigators that it was the missing boy from Oregon. Apparently the LE were notified by a couple sitting nearby who noticed the boy and thought the man and woman with the "alleged Kyron" were acting strangely.

I believe if this is true there is proof beyond a shadow of doubt (for me) that at the moment of the video taping Kyron was alive and I hope still is.

I really like the part about different authority figures are viewing it everyday, in others words, if true, the thought that is is Kyron has not been dismissed by any of them. This one doesn't sound like so many other sightings you hear about in other cases, or this one, and again, makes today much more clear.

They can know he is alive, but not where. They need privacy from the press so as not to pressure them and endanger Kyron. Maybe?

 

[Nana46]

This is wild I know.........the bee information........TH would know this...she has raised him.......maybe there is information in that of course we cannot understand....is this a reminder to her? Is this gosh I just ran out of is thisis(not a word I know) LOL.............this just breaks my heart all over again as I know it does everyones.:banghead:

 

[cluciano63]

I must be a cynic, I'm just not seeing it that Kyron ended up someplace across the country or whatever. I think this whole thing is very close to home, including whereever Kyron has come to rest.

It is the strangest case I have ever followed, including Haleigh's case, and that is saying more than I ever hoped to say about a missing child case. But I feel the outcome in both will be the same, if we ever know.

 

[Forensic fan]

My opinion

I don't believe this is a hoax
I pray Kyron is alive
I believe LE and the family are working with the media to elicit a response from sm
I believe everything said today may seem strange and cast doubt, but today was a small step in achieving the goal. Finding Kyron.
I believe that the release of the allergy was meant to elicit a response his abductor.
My mother has been deceased for more than 30 years and I go through periods were I say and believe "She is alive" Meaning she is with me in spirit.
KH dismissing members of the media may be a ploy to get sm to talk to the dismissed media

Bold by me
Do you need s prescription for the epi-pens to counteract bee stings? If not, perhaps they told all the pharmacies to let LE know of anyone buying some.

 

[debirlfan]

Way way back at a presser the LE liaison that was staying with them read info the parents had given him about Kyron. That his favorite color is red, that his cat Bootsie follows him to the bus stop every morning. Why in the world give info like that and not that he's allergic to bees. I just can't for the life of me figure that out.

Then there was the early presser when a reporter asked LE - Gates - if Kyron had any medical problems and Gates hesitated and stumbled and then said he couldn't say because of the HIPPA privacy act. You would think right then he'd have gotten permission from the parents and sent out a follow up press release that day to say Kyron is allergic to bees.

It's such an important clue to find him. I don't like to second guess LE. I don't like to second guess parents. I'm trying to think of a good reason for not releasing that. I'm stumped right now.

I wonder just HOW allergic he his - whether it's actually "life threatening" allergic, or more like "hives" allergic? If it's the latter - and they suspected someone "well-meaning" might have the boy (see my post above re TH taking the boy because she suspected a divorce was imminent and she had no legal standing to get custody) and if he had a scary reaction, they might take him to a doctor? It's possible that the medical profession WAS alerted to his allergy and to be on the lookout for him.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

As I watched the video of today's press conference, I couldn't help wondering why the onus was solely on Kyron's mother. Dad seemed to avoid being seen on camera and made no plea for his son's safe return. Left me feeling very uneasy about the entire situation and exactly what Kaine knows about his son's disappearance. At this point, I'm skeptical.

In their interviews last week, Desiree was truly heartbroken and quite emotional over the circumstances surrounding her son who is missing. Kaine, on the other hand, seems very controlled, measuring his every word with extreme caution. Kaine has likely been able to intellectualize every situation that he encounters in life and wants to apply those methods to this unbelieveable real-life occurrance. This might well be an instance where Kaine is "too smart for his own good". jmo

 

[sorrell skye]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/97614744.html
PORTLAND, Ore. - Desiree Young, the biological mother of Kyron Horman, missing since June 4, issued a short statement Thursday asking the boy's stepmother, Terri Horman, to cooperate with the investigation

snip
'Desiree Young, who spoke through tears and had to pause at some points, also said that "Kyron is still alive" and that they continue to work with investigators to find him. She read from a prepared statement.

I take this to mean that TH may have possibly (and I emphasize possibly) recently insinuated that K is still alive to KH in private (whether or not it's true is yet to be determined). AFAIK, TH may be a compulsive liar & may say whatever she feels is necessary to perpetuate her version of reality. However, I have no idea as to her mental state; only my suspicions based partly on what I've read of her (both here & elsewhere) & the speculations of the the so-called "expert" guests on Levi Page's radio program (not that I look to them as "experts", but - hey to each her/his own lol - oh, dear, did I just defer to those nincompoop's so-called expertise? I sincerely hope not, because as far as I'm concerned, they're full of themselves, & then some - they can't even be bothered to bring themselves up to date with the facts of a case before spouting off with their "expert" opinions. ).

If (and I emphasize IF) TH made claims to KH that K is still alive, but refused to disclose his location, it could explain the weekend's drastic events, and subsequent family actions. Up until now, the family has been very private, very careful with what they have done & said. Now - suddenly KH has left the home he once shared with TH & taken their baby daughter, filed for divorce & an RO, issued a statement with DY & her husband on Monday in which they claim to have been "fully briefed" by LE, and now today's press statement.

My interpretation: Perhaps they are all reacting to statements TH may have made to KH (or to someone else, for that matter) claiming that that K is alive (regardless of whether or not it's true).

All I know is that this case seemed to take a sharp turn over the week-end. An unexpected sharp turn. And, based on the media reports, TH seems to be at the center of that sharp turn, denying that KH had moved out with their daughter - even though he had been gone for two days, giving a "thumbs up" to a reporter and saying everything was fine, even when it clearly wasn't.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I suspect that TH says whatever she might want someone to believe, even when it might be in stark contrast with reality & the facts.

ETA: You know what - never mind - I'm just gonna say it. TH is a liar, a manipulator, and I have no doubt she has been yanking everyone around from day 1, and that's why LE & now the Family is looking at her so intensely.

IOW - I ain't dancing by myself anymore!

Or, as a proud TEXAS Woman might put it - I'M TAKING MY OVARIES BACK!!!

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe Desiree truly needs to believe that Kyron is alive and she is the only one who could try to say that with any conviction at all. Maybe that is why she read the statement. But as his mother, how could she resist adding to it, speaking out to Kyron or his captors, if that is what she believes (and she must-nothing else would make any sense, unless he is supposed to be out there someplace on his own.)

I know I am in a tiny minority but I am not convinced that LE is handling this case with the degree of brilliance many posters believe. I think they are stuck and keep throwing stuff at the wall.

 

[mtnone]

Here is another interesting commentator from that same site. The post they made one day ago has some interesting ideas/motives in it. Take note of the mention of Kyron possibly being safe, but not local. Of him being gone a temporary thing.

Just food for though. Some on that site thought this might be TH, I doubt that, but she does have friends that might know more details than the rest of us would.



http://intensedebate.com/people/oneshot1

 

[Susan10]

I do hope that Kyron is alive, but I don't think he is. SM would have had to have a co-conspirator, and to me that idea is unlikely. imho.

sm wanted to dispose of Kyron for some reason. Only God and SM know her reasoning. She has proven to be such a prolific liar that we may never know her stupid excuse.

I feel so sad for what Kyron went through (or is going through on the slim chance he is still alive) and my heart breaks for DY and Kaine. Devastating and life changing forever. DY must be eaten up with guilt...her ex-husband, too. He's probably feels more anger than guilt.

 

[Nana46]

I think the mom speaks easier than the dad.....I think he is so overwhelmed by everything that has happened that he feels the less he says the less it is twisted.........maybe he fears he will just lose it and say too much....they are in such a horrible situation.

 

[tiredblondy]

Bold by me
Do you need s prescription for the epi-pens to counteract bee stings? If not, perhaps they told all the pharmacies to let LE know of anyone buying some.

Good point but don't you have to have subscription from a Dr?

 

[mtnone]

I just can't shake the fact that many here have been following missing people/children cases for years and from the start they were saying how weird this one is, how they have never seen anything like it. Mind you, they have seen plenty of weird and sick.

So, my mind comes back to the reason being there has never been a case like this, because it's not a 'case' per say. It just might be a sick, twisted, *advertiser censored**** up 'game' of sorts between two messed up people. It still leaves LE and us with a missing child, and the bio mom and step dad being left out of it with their worry and broken hearts for all to see.

Sure could explain that comment from Desiree that made everyone go HUH? About not thinking he would be gone this long and beginning to get worried.

It makes a lot of this make sense, in a weird and "unique" case way. Why, it might even leave you thinking that maybe you would find him the first day or so, after a brief scare, wondering in the woods near the school.

Just my thoughts. It makes more sense to me than anything else has so far. How upset would TH be if she had no reason to fear him being harmed?

 

[just]

Oh gosh, what we all would give to know that Kyron was alive and well and in the care of people in Vermont or wherever (in reference to a poster who claims a sighting is being investigated). You know, I actually think this may be a possibility. After reading a quote from TH's ex yesterday (bolding by me) I got to thinking:

" After Kyron vanished, the reasons why Jxx left his home and friends in Portland to move to Southern Oregon have been the subject of intense speculation. Terri Moulton Horman declined to comment when WW visited her home June 23.

Jxx was a student at Lincoln High School in Portland, where he was on the swim team and played trumpet in the school band. Tarver says Terri Moulton Horman sent the boy to Roseburg in March this year because his grades were slipping and he was acting out at home.

“He and Kaine on occasion butted heads, because James is hard-headed,” Tarver says.

http://wweek.com/editorial/3634/14214/

Okay, so here are my hopeful thoughts:
TH and KH were not getting along, at all
J was a source of great strain to KH
KH demanded J move out, TH was bitter
KH threatened divorce
TH reluctantly sent him away but held a grudge
TH kidnapped Kyron and sent him with accomplices to hurt KH
DY has seen him on a video and now is pleading for his safe return, ie the bee stings, the glasses, etc.

More twisted than any CSI episode (actually I don't watch that show), but we all know that domestic disputes become very ugly, very fast, and while it's usually the father/husband/stephusband that is the perp, certainly TH could have thought - "you send my son away, guess what buddy, here goes yours."

This would certainly account for the odd behavior of the LE, although obviously them knowing TH was the primary suspect would also cause them to keep things close to the vest.

I simply hope and pray that at this point her accomplices are just frightened of coming forward because of kidnapping charges. But then, who would help this nut-job in the first place?

Gosh, it's far-fetched but everything about this case is. I am going to say an extra loud prayer tonight that Kyron finally comes home. I think he's so close to being found.