2010.07.26 Grand Jury begins

[Chewy]

I certainly believe TMH preplanned to murder Kyron, but do you really believe they are both involved in the preplanning?I readily admit I'm not too fond of Ms. De De S or the fact she may be seeking immunity in order to reveal what she knows about Kyron;s disappearance, however at the present time, I'm more inclined to believe she became involved after the fact...
Can't really wrap my mind around there being two cold hearted.. evil to the core..pitiful excuses for women involved in the planning and the murder of an innocent child...JMO

I can. Depression and feeling like your best friend or soul mate understands you is a very common motive for murder. Look at Pauline Parker and Juliet Holme. I also think that these two women watched lots of CSI and other type shows to see how to get away with it.

I predict neither will talk. I also don't think an arrest will be coming any time soon. On 48 hours some arrests were not made until years later.

 

[Calliope]

True, however we don't have any clue how deep her involvement may be. It could be minimal. The SA probably has some idea what they are going after since they subpeonaed her to testify before the GJ. I'm all about granting her immunity if her involvement is minimal and she can provide concrete testimony leading to Kyron's location and/or implicates the actual perp.

Is it possible the police may have something on her that she doesn't even realize she did 'wrong'? Or that she thought was not an issue? At this point, she wouldn't know what LE might have on her.

 

[SurfieTX]

And I guess my question now is WHY? What was in it for her? These answers will come at some point.

I've wondered that same thing myself. There has to be something that kept them so loyal to one another up until now. Money? Life-destroying secrets?

 

[Calliope]

I knew she'd plead the fifth. I truly believe this was definitely a preplanned murder that they two thought they could get away with. They thought the attention would turn to the school and people would blame the school. They intended to bank from a lawsuit. I betcha. And now they have nothing but cannot say a word. It's going to be the fifth. The cops know what happened but they can't prove it.

We don't know she invoked the 5th.

 

[Adalena935]

I certainly believe TMH preplanned to murder Kyron, but do you really believe they are both involved in the preplanning?I readily admit I'm not too fond of Ms. De De S or the fact she may be seeking immunity in order to reveal what she knows about Kyron;s disappearance, however at the present time, I'm more inclined to believe she became involved after the fact...
Can't really wrap my mind around there being two cold hearted.. evil to the core..pitiful excuses for women involved in the planning and the murder of an innocent child...JMO

This case has put me in mind of another case I saw on forensic files a few years ago. A stepmother had a friend assist her in murdering her stepson who was about 10 yrs old. They picked him up from school, drove him into a secluded area. One of the women was driving and the other sat behind the little boy. She put a belt around his neck and choked him to death from behind. Then they burried him in the secluded location.

The step-mom had a new little child with the boy's Father and wanted all his attention to herself & for her child. I can't tell you how many times I've thought of that case while thinking of this one. So it has happened that women conspire to murder a child. Shocking. Sorry to go so much off topic but your post reminded me of that case. I can't remember the names or where it happended. But it might be in forensic old cases shows. Chilling.

 

[Dee10]

So, here's my $64,000 question:

TH & DS are best friends. DS's family is in the landscaping business. DS obviously enjoys gardening (per her alibi). WHY was TH posting ads on Craigslist for a landscaper?!? WHY wouldn't she ask DS for a referral or even have the unemployed DS do it?

Yes, this is retorical, as I'm pretty sure I know the answer. Same as the reason Kaine was unaware of TH seeking a landscaper. I think *knowing* that TH would have discussed the hiring of a landscaper with DS, we have a good idea what the GJ wants with her . . . .

I think you got might have a B-I-N-G-O on that one. :woohoo:

 

[newone]

has anyone ever thought that DDS may know something about the MFH plot??? And could the GJ be about MFH?

I only ask this because after reading one article today (I posted it in the media thread) one professional said that he could see this being about the MFH to put more pressure on TMH. He further said that there would have to be evidence of foul play, etc for them to bring down a murder indictment or even argue for one.

I for one have wondered for the last four weeks or so whether this is a homicide investigation and they just have not released that...

I sense the MFH is all they have that could ''stick'' at this time

 

[ThoughtFox]

I can. Depression and feeling like your best friend or soul mate understands you is a very common motive for murder. Look at Pauline Parker and Juliet Holme. I also think that these two women watched lots of CSI and other type shows to see how to get away with it.

It's so sad to me that CSI is getting a reputation as a show that "teaches" how to get away with crimes. I watch it because I love to see the criminals get arrested, and to see the good guys win.

And frankly, as a fan of the show, I don't think these gals learned very much of anything from CSI. Things don't seem to be working out for them - that's the lesson they should have learned from the show. The criminals usually get busted!

 

[redkatrampant]

I can. Depression and feeling like your best friend or soul mate understands you is a very common motive for murder. Look at Pauline Parker and Juliet Holme. I also think that these two women watched lots of CSI and other type shows to see how to get away with it.

I predict neither will talk. I also don't think an arrest will be coming any time soon. On 48 hours some arrests were not made until years later.

respectfully BBM

Did you mean "does not understand you"? Because I can't see how depression and understanding go hand in hand to a motive for murder.

 

[Calliope]

If and it is a big if, a news report on Fox that says they heard she took the fifth is true, then that is pretty scary to me. I just can't imagine taking the fifth if Kyron is alive, knowing the delay you are causing, etc. I hope if she is going to get immunity it happens quickly but nothing seems to happen quickly in this case.

Aside from the obvious you mention here, someone needs to find out where this leak came from and deal with it NOW.

 

[Adalena935]

I've seen cases where they give immunity to shooters in murder for hire cases. So they can get a conviction on the one who did the hiring. I think it's possible with Dede that some might be surprised the extent of her involvement. There's no way she hasen't known all this time about the 4th of June and who vanished and who had him when he vanished. That's what I think. I think Dede's involvement may go beyond helping to hide Kyron too. Who knows why women would conspire or carry out something so diabolical (if true), but it's not unheard of. Dede jumping up and leaving abruptly when she got a call at the very time Kyron was vanished. She knows a lot I think. A lot. She may have assisted a lot too. mo

 

[JSR]

Yeah, I figured it wasn't likely. I was just a bit alarmed that someone there can be granted this type of immunity and never be charged if it comes out later that they are involved.

Regarding what I bolded... it's reported in the above link that DeDe's attorney stated that she never left her home that morning. Interesting...

Typically DA's only use immunity that allows testimony that can't be used against the witness. What the witness testifys TO can't be used against them in a Court of law. Having said that, that doesn't preclude the DA from charging her with a crime, but her testimony can't be used as evidence if any charges are filed against her.

Hope that makes sense.

So if DD did actually take part in a crime it only means her testimony can't be used against her and LE and the DA would have to find other evidence to use against her.

Added: Although there are types of immunity that would preclude DD from being charged with anything in exchange for her testimony. I just don't see it happening in this case. At least I hope they don't.

Honestly though I don't think she helped in significant ways. I think either she babysat the little girl or she posed as Terri at the gym. Either way it helped Terri accomplish the murder.

 

[Chewy]

In the above poster's hypothetical situation about impersonating TH, but not knowing why (or being told something other than the truth), but then later finds out she inadvertently helped, but then didn't tell -- wouldn't that require the 5th because she actually DID do something to aid and abet in a roundabout way? Did that make any sense? LOL.

I don't believe this. Any loyalty I had to a friend would be out the window if I thought they had dragged me into a child abduction. She HAD to have known in advance. Kidnapping a child is a capital offence with the penalty being up to life in prison (I'm pretty sure) No matter how much a friend you were with someone, if something this heavy went down and you didn't really know what was going on, you would never ever keep silent about it. It is in my mind an impossible conclusion to think DeDe "got pulled in" or "helped unwittingly" and has remained silent all this time. She had to have known what TH was capable of doing.

 

[Adalena935]

Aside from the obvious you mention here, someone needs to find out where this leak came from and deal with it NOW.

It's dubious if there was a leak. Fox news does report a lot of things other sources don't. However they also get a lot of stuff wrong. It's not uncommon for them to report a tidbit like that, then you never hear another word about it in all of creation. Not slamming them, but it's just the truth.

 

[Calliope]

a poster heard this on fox news! (she posted it in the psychic woman thread):
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Sonja Grace (Oregon psychic) claims to know where Kyron is

seems that fox is reporting that she did infact do "the fifth thang"!

After reading that I wonder if it's a matter of dense editor at Fox who thinks the attorney's comment that she didn't testify yesterday means she invoked the 5th.

 

[Emma Peel]

o.m.g......How many more similarites can there be between Kyron's case and the Haleigh Cummings case? Y'all, I fully realize this is not about me but I really don't know IF I can take anymore of this...I don't think I can take another child not being found..or the person/s responsible never being held accountable for their evil deeds.....JMO

emma to em:
:hug: .......... :grouphug: ......... :blowkiss:

 

[Adalena935]

Typically DA's only use immunity that allows testimony that can't be used against the witness. What the witness testifys TO can't be used against them in a Court of law. Having said that, that doesn't preclude the DA from charging her with a crime, but her testimony can't be used as evidence if any charges are filed against her.

Hope that makes sense.

So if DD did actually take part in a crime it only means her testimony can't be used against her and LE and the DA would have to find other evidence to use against her.

I'm not challenging what you've said because I have no idea. But I just want to add, don't you think it depends on what deal the DA struck with the witness? I'm just saying that based on other cases I've read about or followed over the yrs.

 

[Calliope]

It's dubious if there was a leak. Fox news does report a lot of things other sources don't. However they also get a lot of stuff wrong. It's not uncommon for them to report a tidbit like that, then you never hear another word about it in all of creation. Not slamming them, but it's just the truth.

What happens in a Grand Jury is secret. IF that is true (and I don't think it is) then there is a leak. An illegal leak.

ETA: I see what you mean. And I agree. I think they got it wrong. Again.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I don't believe this. Any loyalty I had to a friend would be out the window if I thought they had dragged me into a child abduction. She HAD to have known in advance. Kidnapping a child is a capital offence with the penalty being up to life in prison (I'm pretty sure) No matter how much a friend you were with someone, if something this heavy went down and you didn't really know what was going on, you would never ever keep silent about it. It is in my mind an impossible conclusion to think DeDe "got pulled in" or "helped unwittingly" and has remained silent all this time. She had to have known what TH was capable of doing.

I don't think we can assume that these women cared about Kyron in any way whatsoever. If they had any empathy for the boy, they wouldn't have plotted somehow to get rid of him.

There are people don't have a conscience. And I've known plenty of people who weren't sociopaths but who didn't care about anyone's children except their own - just plain selfish. I think that's going on here too.

 

[JSR]

I'm not challenging what you've said because I have no idea. But I just want to add, don't you think it depends on what deal the DA struck with the witness? I'm just saying that based on other cases I've read about or followed over the yrs.

Agreed. The DA has a few types of immunity deals at his/her disposal. I just can't see them letting DD off scott free if she actually assisted in the actual murder.

It also bothers me that her lawyer isn't a criminal atty. At least that's what I heard here at WS. That immunity deal is going to have to be reviewed with a fine tooth comb.