2010.11.02 Elisa Baker's Letters (Discussion)

[JoeFromLB]

Hi Brattie! I am not sure that EB knew that LE/we would see those letters. If what I have read about Gein is correct, he will initiate contact with (unusual persons) without identifying himself. EB was inappropriately flirtatious with him, and if she knew these were going to end up for public consumption one might think she would be more circumspect?

IMO, she is neither bright nor naive. She is completely self-absorbed and believes that she can control not only her own reality but others', through charm, manipulation, seduction, lies, and distraction.

Good luck with that, EB.

She may even find her present predicament to be an exciting new challenge...like a game.
"I'm going to get out of this...not sure just how, but I will!"

In a sociopath's mind, the wheels are always turning. It's not her fault, someone else is to blame. Figure out how to make that work...

I don't trust ONE syllable that comes out of her mouth. JMO.

 

[Meagain]

Man - I want to see these new letters. I wonder why they've not been posted anywhere?
Hopefully tomorrow. Along with an arrest of AB.

 

[tlcya]

So the new letters are only known to NG I take it? No links, transcriptions, nuttin?

 

[MountainChick]

So the new letters are only known to NG I take it? No links, transcriptions, nuttin?

I'm wondering the same thing tl. I just came on after being off all evening and have been relentlessly searching the threads but so far everyone just keeps mentioning their existence??? No way is NG coming out with all her stuff at once if she's the only one who has it .....lol

 

[tlcya]

RSS:

:floorlaugh: Donjeta, I couldn't help it, your sense of humor is fantastic! A witch that never learned to spell, lol!

Back on topic, I believe Elisa wrote these, and this is just so sad. She just never grew up, I don't know the reasons why, but it is sad, even more so that it all came to the murder of a beautiful young girl.

Off Topic: Okay, I have been a witch but I am also a horrible speller (were it not for spellcheck I would probably be unemployed)!

On Topic: I belive she did as well

ETA: UBM SEE what I mean!

 

[6angels]

So the new letters are only known to NG I take it? No links, transcriptions, nuttin?

Nancy had a bomb shell today on the show. finally!

 

[LCoastMom]

Watching Nancy Grace and family members have rec'd 4 letters. Elisa claims Zahra had been ill and she found her dead. She's pointing at Adam a lot. Hopefully they will be released.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/timer55

Thank you, Donjeta -- a truly excellent analysis.

To me the most telling thing about these letters is what they lack: any regret, sadness, or the tiniest whiff of concern for Zahra. I mean, her disdain for the child is SO obvious. She couldn't even bring herself to fake it. Which to me indicates that she feels justified in hating the child.

I wonder what she means when she says that "this wouldn't have happened" if her children hadn't called DSS on her? Does she mean she wouldn't have been caught (it was the ransom note that she's in jail for) or is it that she wouldn't have beaten the child to death if she wasn't so angry about the DSS calls?

I'm leaning toward the latter.

BBM - So what she is saying is her daughter's call to CPS made Zahra so sick that she found her dead? Cause that makes all the sense in the world! NOT!!

The letters have no concern/sadness/regret because it is somehow Zahra's/Adam's/daughter's/CPS's - fault that this whole craziness has happened and Ms Fairy Dark Heart was about about to miss her favorite holiday - don't wanna be in here that long yet again cause of something [she] didn't do and [she] don't know nothing has went the way it was suppose to, not yet so far. [She] never thought it would be this way. People actually wanna kill [her]. If [she] hadn’t admitted to that stupid note [she'd] be out in 3 weeks (in time for Halloween).

I can’t think you enough for reaching out to me for what reasons you have, I am so thankful. (Because) they said he was out after them promising me for my safety he wouldn’t be let out. My lawyers get death threats every day to. I will have to go into hiding and move across the country when I get out a here. That’s scary.

I'm across the country and I can promise, she will have to go further away than here. Just like ICA it's all about ME, ME, ME....

"This is so crazy. I just wonder if Zahra hadn’t survived Cancer and been from Australia if it would truly be like this" - What kind of crazy question/ thought/ musing is that?

It breaks my heart that this is the evil that Zahra called mom, a thousand times worse, AB called EB Zahra's mother. That's scary/crazy/not fair.

 

[LadyL]

why does the handwriting switch from backward to forward slant halfway through the first letter and vice versa in the second letter?

also, some of the individual letters are formed completely different in different places - take a careful look at the letter 'b' for example

 

[MTMOM]

Transcripts are up from tonights Nancy Grace concerning the letters.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/04/ng.01.html

 

[Donjeta]

Transcripts are up from tonights Nancy Grace concerning the letters.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/04/ng.01.html

Some relevant quotes:

We obtain exclusive letters written by stepmommy from behind jailhouse walls, saying what Adam Baker did to Zahra was, quote, "horrifying," admitting she`s a pagan worshiper, obsessed with Halloween, vampires and the dark arts, blaming Zahra for beating cancer, complaining about photos of herself seen on TV and about having to cover up her tattoos and her beloved body piercings. Stepmommy admits she wants to be a TV star and whines about missing her waterbed. In the last 24 hours, a bone believed to be Zahra`s discovered while police drain a pond for the 10-year-old`s prosthetic leg found.

Bombshell tonight. We learn of yet another jailhouse letter where stepmommy claims she, quote, "found Zahra dead," also claims she`s behind bars because of Zahra`s dad, Adam Baker. In another twist, stepmommy says Zahra had been sick again, although relatives and friends cannot confirm that illness. As that exhausting search now enters day two in the hope of finding more of Zahra`s bones, tonight, what happened to 10-year-old Zahra?

A tv star huh? Why does NG call them exclusive letters even when she's clearly talking about the letters that everybody has seen already?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I spoke to a cousin of Elisa Baker just before we went to air, and she says family members have received at least four letters from Elisa Baker behind bars. Now, in this letter, she says that she is worried about Zahra. She also says that they did not kill Zahra. And she continues to say that she is behind bars because of Adam Baker. But in another letter that was written to another family member, Elisa Baker allegedly says that Zahra Baker -- she found Zahra Baker dead and that Zahra had been sick for quite some time.

GRACE: Really? You know what? That`s exactly what I do, Dr. Bethany Marshall. When I find somebody`s been sick and passed away, I immediately throw their prosthetic limbs to the side of the road and discard their body. I put it right in the wood chipper, and it`s all said and done. That doesn`t make sense!

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, given that this mother is so shallow, so self-absorbed, so self-referential in all of these letters, I would take everything she says as a lie and as minimizing and obfuscating what really happened. When she said that Zahra was sick for a period of time, I hear she made Zahra sick for a period of time.

Agreed. We're not getting the truth from her.

GRACE: To David Lohr, crime reporter at AOLNews.com, who first uncovered the exclusive letters he shared with us. David, thank you for being with us -- David joining us tonight from Cleveland. David, what do you make of now more jailhouse letters, these saying that Zahra was sick for a long time and that they found her dead? Yet she also says, conflictingly, that she`s behind bars because of what Adam Baker did. How do you compare that to the letters that you got ahold of, David Lohr?

DAVID LOHR, AOLNEWS.COM (via telephone): Well, I think these latest letters are highly interesting. I mean, they go right along the lines of the ones that we`ve received from Serialkillersinc last week, specifically was (ph) she said, We really didn`t kill her, but what he did after the fact was kind of horrifying. So you take that with these new letters, and it`s really starting to paint a very bleak picture of the situation.

It cuts to the clips but it would be interesting to hear which bleak scenario he thinks happened.

GRACE: What about it, Peter Odom? If she found Zahra dead, why not call 911?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. She`s just floating that, Nancy, to try and get some kind of reaction. It`s a silly story, doesn`t add up with all the rest of the evidence. Where this case is headed, inevitably, is that she`s going to be pointing the finger at the husband and the husband`s going to be pointing the finger at her. There`s nowhere else it can go. The evidence against them both is mounting.

He's right, that's how it looks like based on the letters and Adam's interviews in the beginning. A will blame E and vice versa.

But back to David Lohr, crime reporter, AOLNews.com, we wouldn`t have the letters if it weren`t for him.

David, are you surprised there are more letters floating around out there?

DAVID LOHR, CRIME REPORTER, AOLNEWS.COM: No, I`m not surprised. When we talked to the police department the other day, they said they had these copies of a bunch of letters that she had sent out.

And I would also like to mention what your caller said about suicide watch. We`ve since learned that that`s not true. She is not on suicide watch. She made that up for whatever reason.

 

[MandyLeigh]

Has this new letter's information been mentioned anywhere else besides the NG show? I've been searching and I haven't found a thing.

I ask because I really want to try and soak this in and except what is being said. It's just that I've been on the roller coaster ride of reported bombshell info that upset me only to find out it's not true too many times. I have no patience for that in Z's case. So anyone finds this reported anywhere else I would greatly appreciate a quick post.

If the letters are real all I see is Z laying sick in her bed terrified, knowing she needs help and that help never coming. The possibility of her dieing alone is very hard for me to take so I must know if this is real before I go down that road.

 

[rbrnmw2]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html

 

[rbrnmw2]

Has this new letter's information been mentioned anywhere else besides the NG show? I've been searching and I haven't found a thing.

I ask because I really want to try and soak this in and except what is being said. It's just that I've been on the roller coaster ride of reported bombshell info that upset me only to find out it's not true too many times. I have no patience for that in Z's case. So anyone finds this reported anywhere else I would greatly appreciate a quick post.

If the letters are real all I see is Z laying sick in her bed terrified, knowing she needs help and that help never coming. The possibility of her dieing alone is very hard for me to take so I must know if this is real before I go down that road.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html

 

[krazyfingerzz]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html

That article is just a blog post rehashing the NG information (per the source listed at the end). The letter has yet to be printed online, and I notice that NG doesn't read or quote directly from it. Instead, all quotes last night came from the previous letters. It seems NG was informed of the contents by the family member who received the letter, but didn't have a copy, or couldn't/didn't use that copy for whatever reason.

 

[Celt1997]

I can totally believe that EB is sending various letters. Notice they all say different things, as well. I think she knows what she is doing and is throwing all these different scenarios on purpose.

As the psychoanalyst said in the transcript this is nothing more than 100% obfuscation on the part of EB.

She is pandering to the people she's writing the notes to. The "sympathetic" male, she tries to flirt with, and mentions things like "getting out," "divorce", and how it's all AB's fault. Things to prop herself up for this new "suitor." To her family she tells the tale of a sick Zahra, and how she probably couldn't do anything to help, again in the face of AB's horrible treatment.

She's trying to be a chameleon, saying what she thinks those people want to hear. Meanwhile, I doubt any of it is the truth (other than AB possibly assisting in something horrible). This is probably what she's done her entire life. Her involvement with VW roleplay is proof positive of that.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

from the transcript link above...

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I spoke to a cousin of Elisa Baker just before we went to air, and she says family members have received at least four letters from Elisa Baker behind bars. Now, in this letter, she says that she is worried about Zahra. She also says that they did not kill Zahra. And she continues to say that she is behind bars because of Adam Baker. But in another letter that was written to another family member, Elisa Baker allegedly says that Zahra Baker -- she found Zahra Baker dead and that Zahra had been sick for quite some time.

Had this been the case, that EB found her deceased, one call to authorities would have cleared things up. I don't believe this scenario one bit..Where's the remorse? Where's the sadness??

No one truly knows when this child allegedly vanished, like TM stated about Caylee....it's a cold case before it was a missing childs case and I truly believe that due to Zahra getting in touch with her biological mother, set this in motion, or her mother finally tracked her down, either way I do believe this was the incentive EB needed, jealousy might have surfaced and she feared the Bakers might've wanted to go back home...Zahra might have longed for her mother, missing her, needed some questions answered or just wanted to go home...EB put a stop to it...Plus the abuse allegations made this child miss and want her biological relatives...JMHO


Aussie mother says she tracked down Zahra just days before she went missing From: NewsCore, AAP
November 05, 2010 8:01PM

http://www.news.com.au/national/aus...ng/story-e6frfkvr-1225948521852#ixzz14PRoKWvh


This is going to come down to he said, she said nonsense. EB implicates AB, AB implicates EB...so they both go down...AB should have protected his child at all costs...if she had a reoccurance of her cancer, they should have gotten her medical care. I wonder if precious Zahra was under a doctors care? It's so sad to think what has become of this precious child, sadder yet, that those who were supposed to love and protect her failed this child miserably....Where are you Zahra??? JMHO


Where is Zahra?

 

[technicalconfusion]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html

Any Joe Blow off the street can write something up, give it to associatedcontent.com have it published and get paid for it. They probably watched Nancy Grace.

 

[Velouria]

Nancy had a bomb shell today on the show. finally!

You ain't kidding!

For a minute there, I thought we'd fast forwarded to 2012 - surely this had to be a sign of the apocalypse!

I know...take it to the Nancy thread.:silenced: LOL

 

[Velouria]

I can totally believe that EB is sending various letters. Notice they all say different things, as well. I think she knows what she is doing and is throwing all these different scenarios on purpose.

As the psychoanalyst said in the transcript this is nothing more than 100% obfuscation on the part of EB.

She is pandering to the people she's writing the notes to. The "sympathetic" male, she tries to flirt with, and mentions things like "getting out," "divorce", and how it's all AB's fault. Things to prop herself up for this new "suitor." To her family she tells the tale of a sick Zahra, and how she probably couldn't do anything to help, again in the face of AB's horrible treatment.

She's trying to be a chameleon, saying what she thinks those people want to hear. Meanwhile, I doubt any of it is the truth (other than AB possibly assisting in something horrible). This is probably what she's done her entire life. Her involvement with VW roleplay is proof positive of that.

Excellent post, Celt - I think you nailed it!

 

[DLT88]

100% agreed, I think this is what happened.

I too noticed how the word "kill" was different looking than the rest of the writing. It definately stood out to me, it almost looks bolded. I'm no expert but this just makes me feel... :sick:

That's very telling, isn't it?

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but another thing I remember from the graphology classes was the margins. When people tell the truth and are spontaneous they most always have a left margin that starts to go inward as you go down the page. When a letter is deceitful and the writer is calculating what they say, the margin is flush left. And just look at EB's left margin -- flush left. Liars do this because they have to keep stopping to think on what they are going to say (because they are making it up) so the hand goes all the way back to the left margin to begin writing.

If a letter contains a single lie, you can usually find it in the lines that are at the flush left margin. So the letter would have the slow right inward slant and then suddenly, you can see one line of the letter that starts way over to the left. If there is a lie in the letter, it's in that line. EB must be a chronic liar as her entire letter is all the way at the left margin.

Just my observations.