2011.01.04 Defense Motion to Suppress Casey's Statements to LE

[Solace]

I don't know about being "off topic" because aren't we all trying to figure out if this actually happened or something Baez or wasn't it Mason threw in just for window dressing?

I know for sure this is the first we've heard of it since ICA's little text to TL and well, considering the source....

Lee Anthony is specifically asked this by Linda DB when he sat with KC in the garage and he said she was "free to move around".

 

[Fluffy Puppy]

I too am wondering if there is a police report that states that Casey was placed in handcuffs. I've made myself crazy looking for police reports from the first responding officers. I know that we have seen some documents in reference to them but I can't remember if they were reports, depositions or interviews. And if they were depositions why didn't the defense ask them about the handcuffing then, it's not like this is new information?

Anyway, if Casey was handcuffed I would bet that it is documented in a police report. It is usually SOP to write in your report that you placed someone in handcuffs and the reason...arrested, for safety during a search, etc. If you're handcuffing someone you are taking away their liberty and it should be documented. So, if it isn't written in a police report somewhere I ain't buying it.

Why, oh why do I have a very vague recollection of thinking she was put in handcuffs at home for a brief period of time (like 10 minutes) the night/morning of the 911 call. I will look around and see if I can find anything, also.

 

[Aedrys]

I could swear we debated this before and came to the conclusion that she couldn't have been handcuffed because she texted Tony. Some said maybe she texted from home, but I remember the discussion on this and it seems like she texted from the police car. I've followed this case almost the entire length of it, and I do not ever remember hearing that Casey was in handcuffs at the time of the Universal trip or the 911 calls. I feel like I am losing my mind here. I swear Casey just made that up to get attention, not that it actually happened. Either Baez believed her or made this up to make the situation look worse. Can't LE refute this?

 

[AZlawyer]

I could swear we debated this before and came to the conclusion that she couldn't have been handcuffed because she texted Tony. Some said maybe she texted from home, but I remember the discussion on this and it seems like she texted from the police car. I've followed this case almost the entire length of it, and I do not ever remember hearing that Casey was in handcuffs at the time of the Universal trip or the 911 calls. I feel like I am losing my mind here. I swear Baez made that up.

She texted Tony on the morning of July 16, just after she had returned from her Apartment Tour with Yuri and several hours before leaving for her Universal Tour with Yuri, and she seemed to be referring to an earlier period of time as the time that she had been handcuffed for almost 10 minutes. She wasn't saying that she was in handcuffs right at that minute.

Baez has not said that Casey was in handcuffs during the Universal trip or the 911 calls, AFAIK.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

You'd think Baez, fighting so hard for Casey, would have brought this up, oh, I don't know AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED or shortly thereafter. What kind of defense lawyer waits until less that three months to the trial to whine about her treatment? I think that is what aggravates me the most, that if this was really a situation that needed to be looked into, it would have been looked into TWO YEARS ago, now NOW. Obviously, it wasn't even a situation at the time. Now it's just something for Baez to throw out there and hope that it works.

I'm sure LE has plenty back up the fact that they didn't handcuff her and that Baez's supposed version of events is wrong, wrong, WRONG.

It all seems to play into this assumption Baez has that if he can show she was mistreated somehow - by LE, media, etc. etc. that it means she can't be convicted or something. He never makes a full argument - he just seems to be gathering these "victimization" stories, thinking the Judge will do something because of them? But Baez never makes it clear what he thinks should happen.

 

[logicalgirl]

Lee Anthony is specifically asked this by Linda DB when he sat with KC in the garage and he said she was "free to move around".

Yes, I remember that question, but what I don't recall seeing is anything definitive stating she was ever handcuffed for a period of time before she was actually arrested.

 

[logicalgirl]

She texted Tony on the morning of July 16, just after she had returned from her Apartment Tour with Yuri and several hours before leaving for her Universal Tour with Yuri, and she seemed to be referring to an earlier period of time as the time that she had been handcuffed for almost 10 minutes. She wasn't saying that she was in handcuffs right at that minute.

Baez has not said that Casey was in handcuffs during the Universal trip or the 911 calls, AFAIK.

Okay now I really am confused. When is he/she saying she was handcuffed - some time during or just after the Apartment Tour? This isn't making sense to me - sigh...

 

[Aedrys]

Yep - it was #2 on the motion - it reads: Upon said confrontation, the Defendant was taken into custody and handcuffed by members of the Sheriff's department, despite having no probable cause of any crime having been committed, having no warrant, and having no exigent circumstances that would justify a warrantless arrest of the defendant.

But that was on June 15th. So I'm not crazy, LOL. It happened the day BEFORE the Universal interview. And Baez claimed she was in custody, in effect, from the first time she was handcuffed until her formal arrest.

 

[AZlawyer]

It all seems to play into this assumption Baez has that if he can show she was mistreated somehow - by LE, media, etc. etc. that it means she can't be convicted or something. He never makes a full argument - he just seems to be gathering these "victimization" stories, thinking the Judge will do something because of them? But Baez never makes it clear what he thinks should happen.

I don't think he's mentioning the handcuffs to show mistreatment--I think he's mentioning them to support the argument that she was "in custody" and therefore entitled to Miranda warnings before being questioned about her involvement.

I thought I read in the motion that she was handcuffed at one point. It was one of the things that made me really mad about that motion. Maybe I need to go read it again.

Okay now I really am confused. When is he/she saying she was handcuffed - some time during or just after the Apartment Tour? This isn't making sense to me - sigh...

The motion is a little vague, but it says she was handcuffed "upon" the "confrontation" by LE "in the evening hours of July 15, 2008." IIRC the police got to the house around 10 pm, and the apartment tour didn't start until around 4 am the next morning.

 

[logicalgirl]

Yep - it was #2 on the motion - it reads: Upon said confrontation, the Defendant was taken into custody and handcuffed by members of the Sheriff's department, despite having no probable cause of any crime having been committed, having no warrant, and having no exigent circumstances that would justify a warrantless arrest of the defendant.

But that was on June 15th. So I'm not crazy, LOL. It happened the day BEFORE the Universal interview. And Baez claimed she was in custody, in effect, from the first time she was handcuffed until her formal arrest.

Hmm - doesn't that sound like Mason-speak not Baez-speak to you? Too many big words for Baez.
Would Yuri really have left that off his report?

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't think he's mentioning the handcuffs to show mistreatment--I think he's mentioning them to support the argument that she was "in custody" and therefore entitled to Miranda warnings before being questioned about her involvement.





The motion is a little vague, but it says she was handcuffed "upon" the "confrontation" by LE "in the evening hours of July 15, 2008." IIRC the police got to the house around 10 pm, and the apartment tour didn't start until around 4 am the next morning.

Okay so maybe it was about the car theft and money thingy rather than the missing child - LG asks hopefully?

 

[Aedrys]

Hmm - doesn't that sound like Mason-speak not Baez-speak to you? Too many big words for Baez.
Would Yuri really have left that off his report?

I was just thinking that sounded way too sophisticated for Baez. And no, I would imagine Yuri would not have left that off of his report. Baez just wants to make this whole look as bad as possible for LE. The whole motion makes me sick, and it might get granted anyway.

 

[lauriej]

july 16 --timeline--

6:48 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Im so sorry for not telling you what happened..weobviously need to talk. I need you..and i love you more than you know”
6:50 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Where is caylee?”
6:50 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I honestly dont know..”
6:53 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “I don’t know…. R u serious?.. When did u find out?”
6:53 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Ive been filing reports all night and driving around with multiple officers looking at old apartments i had taken her to. Everything. I am t”
6:54 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Too long. Lets just leave it at that.”
6:57 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Y wouldn’t u tell me of all people I was ur boyfriend that cares about you and ur daughter. Dosn’t make sense to me. Why would u lie to me th”
6:59 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I lied to everyone. What was i supposed to say? I trust my daughter with some psycho. How does that look?”
7:01 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Idk what to say.. I just hope your daughter is okay and I’m gonna do whatever I can do to help ur family and the cops.”
7:01 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I was put in handcuffs for almost 10 minutes and sat in the back of a cop car. The best thing and the most important person in my life is mi”
7:02 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I am the dubest person and the worst mother. I honestly hate myself”
7:03 am KC sends Tl a text message that reads “The most important thing is getting caylee back but i truly hope that you can forgive me..granted i will never be able to forgive myself..no”
7:04 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Who is this zanny nanny person”
7:06 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Someone i had net through a mutual friend almost 4 years ago. She used to be my buddy jeffs nanny before she became mine”
7:09 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Im scared”
7:12 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “R u home?”
7:13 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Yeah. Almost 12 hours of stuff. Finally getting a shower. I feel like [edited out]”
7:15 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Where did u drop off caylee last time u saw her?”
7:17 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “At her apartment. At the bottom stairs”
7:17 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Where?!”
7:18 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Sawgrass apartments”
7:19 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Have told and showed the police the apartment.”
7:20 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Told them and drove out there with two different officers. I just got back from the second drive”
7:21 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “If they dont find her..guess who gets blamed and spends eternity in jail?”
7:23 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Yeah no [edited out] this serious why would u say somthing sooner bout this? Too anyone?”
7:24 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Oh and why are u texting me and not callin”
7:24 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I talked to two people that have been directly connected to zanny. How can i sit there and be so blind and stupid? Its my fault”
7:25 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I was scared to admit..i was scared that something was going to happen to my baby.”
7:27 am KC calls TL, 2 hours and 2 minutes conversation.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/casey-anthony-murder-trial/timeline-and-discovery/

 

[logicalgirl]

I was just thinking that sounded way too sophisticated for Baez. And no, I would imagine Yuri would not have left that off of his report. Baez just wants to make this whole look as bad as possible for LE. The whole motion makes me sick, and it might get granted anyway.

Or.....ummm....er.....as per usual - Mason hasn't even read the report, and is going by something ICA told him in one of their jailhouse meetings....:waitasec:

 

[lauriej]

..i finally found the additional statements CM wants suppressed.

..the 'amended motion' isn't about what kc said to anyone inside the building---while primping and flirting------it's the recording they have of her in the police car on October 14th while driving there.

----------amended motion to suppress-----

11. p/p--( After the GJ indictment, the defendant was arrested by detective edwards. He advised the defendant of her Miranda rights.)
"At that time and place the defendant did immediatley invoke her rights to counsel".

12."Immediatley subsequent to the defendant invoking her rights,puruant to Miranda, she was placed in a patrol car and questioned by law enforcement agents , notwithstanding her invocation of her rights , pursuant to Miranda, to counsel, and to remain silent. The questions and all statements allegedly attributed to the Defendant under those circumstances must be suppressed..."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...car15_1_cindy-anthony-bondsman-anthony-mother

Casey Anthony arrested on busy Orlando-area highway after switching cars
Casey Anthony's attorney said his client would turn herself in. But after a murder indictment was filed against her Tuesday, deputies followed Anthony and arrested her on an Orange County highway before she could surrender.

..detective edwards turns on the recorder just before they put her in the car------mirandizes her in the car, kc signs the miranda form------and they keep talking as they drive TO the building (where she then primps and flirts..)

http://www.momlogic.com/cdn/v3/pdf/casey_anthony_docs/redacted_statements.pdf
-----miranda form signed------page 18
-----transcript of 'secret recording' begins page 19

 

[AZlawyer]

Okay so maybe it was about the car theft and money thingy rather than the missing child - LG asks hopefully?

Probably. But I don't see how that helps show that she wasn't "in custody."

Hmm - doesn't that sound like Mason-speak not Baez-speak to you? Too many big words for Baez.
Would Yuri really have left that off his report?

Yuri's report doesn't start until he shows up at the house in the wee hours of the morning on July 16. If there was any 10 minutes of handcuffing, he probably never knew about it.

 

[AZlawyer]

..i finally found the additional statements CM wants suppressed.

..the 'amended motion' isn't about what kc said to anyone inside the building---while primping and flirting------it's the recording they have of her in the police car on October 14th while driving there.

----------amended motion to suppress-----

11. p/p--( After the GJ indictment, the defendant was arrested by detective edwards. He advised the defendant of her Miranda rights.)
"At that time and place the defendant did immediatley invoke her rights to counsel".

12."Immediatley subsequent to the defendant invoking her rights,puruant to Miranda, she was placed in a patrol car and questioned by law enforcement agents , notwithstanding her invocation of her rights , pursuant to Miranda, to counsel, and to remain silent. The questions and all statements allegedly attributed to the Defendant under those circumstances must be suppressed..."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...car15_1_cindy-anthony-bondsman-anthony-mother

Casey Anthony arrested on busy Orlando-area highway after switching cars
Casey Anthony's attorney said his client would turn herself in. But after a murder indictment was filed against her Tuesday, deputies followed Anthony and arrested her on an Orange County highway before she could surrender.

..detective edwards turns on the recorder just before they put her in the car------mirandizes her in the car, kc signs the miranda form------and they keep talking as they drive TO the building (where she then primps and flirts..)

http://www.momlogic.com/cdn/v3/pdf/casey_anthony_docs/redacted_statements.pdf
-----miranda form signed------page 18
-----transcript of 'secret recording' begins page 19

Well, I'm pretty sure the SA wouldn't have dared ask to use the recording made in the car, because the officers admitted in the recording made later on, in the building, that any statements made in the car would be unusable pursuant to Miranda:

ASB: I had, I had many family members that are attorneys, I have no problem with attorneys.What I have problems with are at some point...
CA: Uh-huh (affirmative)
ASB: We have to set aside the rules and we have to find kids.And you know what? So be it that’s why I told you in the car. You know if you tell me anything now.
CA: Yeah
ASB: I’ll get up and say, yep I heard it and she’s already invoked so we can’t use any of it. That’s just the way it is that’s all that matters to me.
CA: Yeah.
ASB: And ah, you know when we did, did another case that I was involved in. You know they lost a confession. And I sat there and I looked right at the guys that we worked with I said...
CA: That’s not whats important.
ASB: Who cares?
CA: Yeah.
ASB: We found her. We found her and he’s gonna get whats coming to him that’s not my job.
CA: Uh-huh (affirmative)
ASB: You know. And it works out in the end. It works out in the end on all sides.
CA: Uh-huh (affirmative)

 

[logicalgirl]

..i finally found the additional statements CM wants suppressed.

..the 'amended motion' isn't about what kc said to anyone inside the building---while primping and flirting------it's the recording they have of her in the police car on October 14th while driving there.

----------amended motion to suppress-----

11. p/p--( After the GJ indictment, the defendant was arrested by detective edwards. He advised the defendant of her Miranda rights.)
"At that time and place the defendant did immediatley invoke her rights to counsel".



12."Immediatley subsequent to the defendant invoking her rights,puruant to Miranda, she was placed in a patrol car and questioned by law enforcement agents , notwithstanding her invocation of her rights , pursuant to Miranda, to counsel, and to remain silent. The questions and all statements allegedly attributed to the Defendant under those circumstances must be suppressed..."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...car15_1_cindy-anthony-bondsman-anthony-mother

Casey Anthony arrested on busy Orlando-area highway after switching cars
Casey Anthony's attorney said his client would turn herself in. But after a murder indictment was filed against her Tuesday, deputies followed Anthony and arrested her on an Orange County highway before she could surrender.

..detective edwards turns on the recorder just before they put her in the car------mirandizes her in the car, kc signs the miranda form------and they keep talking as they drive TO the building (where she then primps and flirts..)

http://www.momlogic.com/cdn/v3/pdf/casey_anthony_docs/redacted_statements.pdf
-----miranda form signed------page 18
-----transcript of 'secret recording' begins page 19

Well done LaurieJ with those last two posts! :loveyou:

Now we can stop stumbling around in the dark scratching our heads and muttering WTH?

 

[Aedrys]

So let me get this straight. Baez is asking for something to be thrown out that would be thrown out anyway and probably wasn't going to be used by the prosecution? Wow, talk about focusing on things that don't matter!

I just do not get Baez, not at all...

 

[logicalgirl]

So let me get this straight. Baez is asking for something to be thrown out that would be thrown out anyway and probably wasn't going to be used by the prosecution? Wow, talk about focusing on things that don't matter!

I just do not get Baez, not at all...

Really? He's putting Belich on his witness list and probably won't call her, so... I think he's got this weird list of numbers in his head and sits there...:waitasec: .....okay - I need X number of witnesses to make my goal, so let's see - who else? Okay...:waitasec: ...now I need to write X number of motions to be a "ligit" criminal defense lawyer so that means 42 more, so......